Who were the ancient Egyptians? Mummy DNA reveals surprising clues

[Mormolyce]

Justinian was a Roman Emperor, if you think otherwise then you'd need to take that up with the Roman citizens of the 6th Century.

Rome was ruled by the Ostrogothic Kingdom of Italy when Justinian took power, and hadn't had an Emperor since Julius Nepos/Romulus Augustus 50 years prior. Justinian attempted to retake Italy in the Gothic War, which was such a pyrrhic victory that it almost immediately fell to the Lombards. A few hundred years later Charlemagne conquered it again and it became Frankish. Basically aside from a brief period of time at the conclusion of the Gothic War, Rome was under Germanic rule from Odoacer onwards. And then the Middle Ages happened and it got very complicated.

You are welcome to publish a book for review by historians if you have some information showing that is wrong, but you don't, so you won't.

There is nothing wrong in history with pinpointing an exact moment in time when an event happened, if we have details of the event in question, which we do in this case. The Empire had been in decline for some time, but it finally fell on the 29th May 1453, which was a Tuesday.

There are a lot of definitions of "the Empire" and "when it fell".

For example, the fall of the Western Roman Empire is traditionally dated at 4 September 476, when Odoacer deposed Romulus Augustus. I think that was a Friday... bit hard to say as most perpetual calendars don't go back that far and of course it's an anachronism anyway :P

By the Fall of Constantinople, "the Roman Empire" was so in name only. That's why modern historians often use the term "Byzantine Empire".

[Kalis]

Rome was ruled by the Ostrogothic Kingdom of Italy when Justinian took power, and hadn't had an Emperor since Julius Nepos/Romulus Augustus 50 years prior. Justinian attempted to retake Italy in the Gothic War, which was such a pyrrhic victory that it almost immediately fell to the Lombards. A few hundred years later Charlemagne conquered it again and it became Frankish. Basically aside from a brief period of time at the conclusion of the Gothic War, Rome was under Germanic rule from Odoacer onwards. And then the Middle Ages happened and it got very complicated.

The Roman Empire had been split into two administrative divisions, both of which had an emperor. The Eastern branch of the Empire was ruled from Constantinople and could be argued to be the senior of the two, certainly it was regarded by all as being legitimate and as a direct continuation.

When Rome fell it did not signal the end of the Roman Empire, only the fall of the Western portion of the Empire. You seem to be obsessed by the city of Rome, but long lived Empires have often changed capitals and/or their borders during their existence.

There are a lot of definitions of "the Empire" and "when it fell".

For example, the fall of the Western Roman Empire is traditionally dated at 4 September 476, when Odoacer deposed Romulus Augustus. I think that was a Friday... bit hard to say as most perpetual calendars don't go back that far and of course it's an anachronism anyway :P

By the Fall of Constantinople, "the Roman Empire" was so in name only. That's why modern historians often use the term "Byzantine Empire".

Modern historians use the term Byzantine Empire as it has become the accepted term for the Eastern Roman Empire, the name has no basis in historical reality. The people themselves were Roman citizens, the emperors were the direct heirs of Augustus, that it was a shadow of its former self when it fell, does not stop it from being the Roman Empire.

Try reading actual history books, not simplified Wikipedia entries. John Julius Norwich has written a great history, I would recommend you to start there.

[Lightfist]

We wuz kangs 'n shiet

That some troglodyte degenerate with a hentai avatar has the audacity to mock anyone is galling.

Do the human race a favor and find the nearest trash bin to politely die within.

(Infracted)

[GennGreymane]

That some troglodyte degenerate with a hentai avatar has the audacity to mock anyone is galling.

Do the human race a favor and find the nearest trash bin to politely die within.

this is all they have, okay?

[Acidbaron]

I never understand the public obsession with racially classifying ancient Egyptians. It's strange

And honestly, seems folly to assume the people who occupied a culture that spanned 3,000 years would have not been subject to contestant mixing with foreign cultures

It's people who are still stuck in a mind set of "übermensch", it's a quest to stating only white ever produced anything good. It is also done to lift their own status up, see it as some sort of nationalistic behavior, where one is proud due to the actions of another and feeling better by it while them on an individual level contributing actually nothing to it, or the nationality they are proud of. To put it bluntly it's to make yourself as a nobody feel good about your identity.

It requires us to redact a lot of history to come to this conclusion that all great things are only done by white toned people so once they find anything they barely might proof it they jump on it look flies to a pile of manure. Since for us to accept that made up history, we need to ignore we in the west learned most of our algebra if not all from the middle east and east, also medicine is largely something we learned from there, the arabic and eastern nations also preserved a lot of the ancient greek knowledge that we simply lost.

It's much simpler to simply accept that each and every nationality or race given being born in the right time and place can produce major advances to humanity, but i guess some people prefer to not accept it to keep their world view easy, narrow and simple.

[Deleted]

That some troglodyte degenerate with a hentai avatar has the audacity to mock anyone is galling.

Do the human race a favor and find the nearest trash bin to politely die within.

Someone is buttblasted.

[Kalis]

this is all they have, okay?

"They" being people not interested in historical revisionism?

[Elba]

"They" being people not interested in historical revisionism?

They being poor excuses of our people, perverts, using racist chants.

[Mormolyce]

The Roman Empire had been split into two administrative divisions, both of which had an emperor. The Eastern branch of the Empire was ruled from Constantinople and could be argued to be the senior of the two, certainly it was regarded by all as being legitimate and as a direct continuation.

When Rome fell it did not signal the end of the Roman Empire, only the fall of the Western portion of the Empire. You seem to be obsessed by the city of Rome, but long lived Empires have often changed capitals and/or their borders during their existence.



Modern historians use the term Byzantine Empire as it has become the accepted term for the Eastern Roman Empire, the name has no basis in historical reality. The people themselves were Roman citizens, the emperors were the direct heirs of Augustus, that it was a shadow of its former self when it fell, does not stop it from being the Roman Empire.

Try reading actual history books, not simplified Wikipedia entries. John Julius Norwich has written a great history, I would recommend you to start there.

Spends three paragraphs proving he doesn't know anything about the topic, then accuses me of relying on Wikipedia entries.

Seriously, as a friend, you need to back off this one.

[dd614]

What a shocker the we wuz kangz afro-centrics are wrong about history. I suspect they will now say DNA testing is racist.

[Kalis]

They being poor excuses of our people, perverts, using racist chants.

It is not racist to point out the inaccuracies in thinking that sub-Saharn Africans were responsible for the achievements of Ancient Egypt. The hilarious thing is that it is often descendants of West Africans doing so, they could have just looked at a map and seen their claims were likely to be dodgy.

Spends three paragraphs proving he doesn't know anything about the topic, then accuses me of relying on Wikipedia entries.

Seriously, as a friend, you need to back off this one.

You have not shown that anything I have said is inaccurate, only that you do not understand how the Roman Empire changed.

[Independent voter]

Can't really call it the Roman Empire if it doesn't include Rome. Belisarius retook it in the 6th century but it didn't last long.

I don't know how popular Justinian was, Procopius sure didn't care for him much.

So Constantine moved the capitol of Rome so it was more in the center of the Empire, that's really all there is to it, Justinian was a Roman emperor.

[NicoWolf]

It is not racist to point out the inaccuracies in thinking that sub-Saharn Africans were responsible for the achievements of Ancient Egypt. The hilarious thing is that it is often descendants of West Africans doing so, they could have just looked at a map and seen their claims were likely to be dodgy.



You have not shown that anything I have said is inaccurate, only that you do not understand how the Roman Empire changed.

Which is why they play the "white people are bad" card. When your own racism fails to find facts that support your hatred, simply blame the other side. It's how Elba sleeps at night, dreaming of a world where he/she/it (because we need to be inclusive) can be racist as much as they want, blaming white people cuz its trendy.

[Shadowferal]

Hmf...The eras of the kingdoms of Egypt have too much going for it.
Ancient Sumer needs to shine.

[draynay]

Justinian was a Roman emperor.

You don't say

[Mormolyce]

You have not shown that anything I have said is inaccurate, only that you do not understand how the Roman Empire changed.

As I said, it's more that the debate over where the "Roman Empire fell" is much more complex than you're making out. And the continuity of the Empire from Octavian to ____ is also a topic of great complexity.

So Constantine moved the capitol of Rome so it was more in the center of the Empire, that's really all there is to it, Justinian was a Roman emperor.

Eastern Roman Emperor, or to put it another way a Byzantine Emperor.

I mean if you want to say Justinian was an Eastern Roman Emperor then sure go right ahead. But that's not really going to help Kalis's silly argument that 1453 absolved Western civilisation of "dirt, mud and piss".

[Lightfist]

Someone is buttblasted.

A butthurt comment. How quaint.

Are you fifteen, or did your stunted mind just stop developing back in 2007?

"They" being people not interested in historical revisionism?

Making snide, belittling comments about another ethnicity has nothing to do with being historically accurate.

[Stelio Kontos]

A butthurt comment. How quaint.

Are you fifteen, or did your stunted mind just stop developing back in 2007?


Making snide, belittling comments about another ethnicity has nothing to do with being historically accurate.

It does show an amazing lack of historical education to believe Bantu-speaking Africans had anything to do with ancient Egypt though.

[Mormolyce]

Which is why they play the "white people are bad" card. When your own racism fails to find facts that support your hatred, simply blame the other side. It's how Elba sleeps at night, dreaming of a world where he/she/it (because we need to be inclusive) can be racist as much as they want, blaming white people cuz its trendy.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Kalis]

As I said, it's more that the debate over where the "Roman Empire fell" is much more complex than you're making out. And the continuity of the Empire from Octavian to ____ is also a topic of great complexity.



Eastern Roman Emperor, or to put it another way a Byzantine Emperor.

I mean if you want to say Justinian was an Eastern Roman Emperor then sure go right ahead. But that's not really going to help Kalis's silly argument that 1453 absolved Western civilisation of "dirt, mud and piss".

Eastern Roman Emperor is a Roman Emperor, that is the point.