The Historical precedent of our Globalizing Western Empire

[xChurch]

There is a difference between "multiculturalism failing society" and "anti-Muslim migration." The point of the thread more or less, as I interpret it, is that multiculturalism has never succeeded in history. The only other time in human history it was attempted on a large scale was with the Roman Empire. Theodarzna is merely making observations as to how some of those issues in that era mirror some of our issues today. Multiculturalism may be indeed a flawed concept due to the fact that humans are tribal in nature. Only time will tell.

As a liberal myself, this is where neo-liberalism drives me crazy. We can't talk (or even think) about things in an educated or respectful manner as it is all labeled hate speech or politically incorrect. Discussing multiculturalism and its potential pitfalls is a healthy discussion. How you could even derive it's anti-Muslim is beyond me. These are the types of topics that are discussed everyday in philosophy and history classes in every university the world over.

Isolation has never really succeeded in history either save for just base survival.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Globalism really doesn't insist we drop bombs all over the world. The way we've gone about things has been pretty self-defeating so far, I'm more for peaceful globalism rather than by force.

I'm not denying that there are a lot of known people who talk a lot of about a more global humanity, but it's not some sort of hive mind all striving for the exact same things. It would basically be the Illuminauti if it actually exsisted in that form.

There is no such thing as peaceful globalism. Not when it develops into its own, all-consuming ideology and demands reform.

...Have you not noticed that our leaders tend to be from the same cut of cloth? That in general we now have a higher-class of citizenry and representation that is so detached from the norm that in turn their entire existence and way of viewing the world is different and almost at times exhibit religious overtones to everything they espouse or attempt to achieve?

It's not conspiracy. It's not some people in cloaks in a backroom and among secret circles. They're right here. Out in the open. Nothing to hide.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

I'd rather be a professor myself if I was going to make a career out of being a historian of any value.

You're not going to be a professor given your arrogance. The first professor in grad school is going to rip your asshole out and beat you with it.

Good luck, though, I guess. You'll wake up 15 years into your education and wonder what you're going to do because you didn't get tenure.

...and no, I didn't address your historical theory because it is utter bullshit much like your credentials.

Postmodernism, structuralism, and constructionism are all things in the discipline, as they are in all social sciences.

[draynay]

We have an individual whom before his career as a poet and ascetic, he was a member of Emperor Theodosius' court, I assumed from that he was someone of importance. Theodosius was the last ruler of a united Empire, and he was Christian. So this is well into the Christianization of Rome and the disappearance of classical Paganism. This writer was in this court whilst Theodosius was dismantling classical paganism, such as the Vestal Virgins ect.

I did not pick some random writer. He was a politician who had elite standing and was a member of the Imperial Court of an Emperor who went down as "The Great." I figure that qualifies Prudentius to be someone worth taking note of. Plus the fact that he was literate and writing an address to a Senator would also imply he was a member of the social elite, it wasn't as if anyone could write a letter to a senator or pen some criticism of their policies.

It was not my intent to disparage the source but to point out his natural limitations, and I'm pretty sure that most are not referring to your selection of Prudentius as "random".

[xChurch]

There is no such thing as peaceful globalism. Not when it develops into its own, all-consuming ideology and demands reform.

...Have you not noticed that our leaders tend to be from the same cut of cloth? That in general we now have a higher-class of citizenry and representation that is so detached from the norm that in turn their entire existence and way of viewing the world is different and almost at times exhibit religious overtones to everything they espouse or attempt to achieve?

It's not conspiracy. It's not some people in cloaks in a backroom and among secret circles. They're right here. Out in the open. Nothing to hide.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, what is the norm these people are detached from exactly?

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

You're not going to be a professor given your arrogance. The first professor in grad school is going to rip your asshole out and beat you with it.

Good luck, though, I guess. You'll wake up 15 years into your education and wonder what you're going to do because you didn't get tenure.


Postmodernism, structuralism, and constructionism are all things in the discipline, as they are in all social sciences.

I like how you notate my arrogance then proceed to follow that up with a rather arrogant statement and not only so but a very crude, assumptive one at that.

...and your credentials are still bullshit until I see evidence to the contrary.

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I'm not quite sure what you mean, what is the norm these people are detached from exactly?

Everything.

They don't have the struggles we do. They don't face the same problems. Most of them, aren't even bound by the very same policies they advocate for that directly influence us.

When you go so far above the noise that you no longer hear anything, you tend to start coming up with some crazy notions of your own concerning how things should work and why.

[Theodarzna]

It was not my intent to disparage the source but to point out his natural limitations, and I'm pretty sure that most are not referring to your selection of Prudentius as "random".

This is going to be inevitably a problem with any historical argument going back a certain length in time. Obviously I cannot say anything in absolute terms, which is why I focused on an individuals idealism and noted its similarities to modern Western Liberal Triumphalism that has existed at least since Fracis Fukuyama. My point being, that Francis isn't the first guy to proclaim his civilization to have a historic mission and have values so good they will naturally dominate all whom come in contact with them.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

I like how you notate my arrogance then proceed to follow that up with a rather arrogant statement and not only so but a very crude, assumptive one at that.

That's not arrogance. It's fact. Ivy League educated folks with a bunch of published works aren't getting tenure. But hey, we all gotta make our mistakes, chief.

...and your credentials are still bullshit until I see evidence to the contrary.

"Post a degree."

Let's not how far I'm pulled you down the hole. You're reduced to questioning my education instead of actually addressing my initial point with you. It's pretty funny.

But hey, wanna discuss education theory next since you want to question everything you think I don't know? I'm pretty big on scaffolding, but I saw a sped teacher who has implemented Whole Brain teaching in a high school classroom. It was pretty cool.

[xChurch]

Everything.

They don't have the struggles we do. They don't face the same problems. Most of them, aren't even bound by the very same policies they advocate for that directly influence us.

When you go so far above the noise that you no longer hear anything, you tend to start coming up with some crazy notions of your own concerning how things should work and why.

But you can probably find just as many of those people who do understand the struggles everyone is going through as ones who don't. Just because someone is rich/famous/well-educated, doesn't mean they are oblivious to the suffering of others. A well intentioned globalism should be concerned with elevating our species rather than select groups.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

That's not arrogance. It's fact. Ivy League educated folks with a bunch of published works aren't getting tenure. But hey, we all gotta make our mistakes, chief.


"Post a degree."

Let's not how far I'm pulled you down the hole. You're reduced to questioning my education instead of actually addressing my initial point with you. It's pretty funny.

But hey, wanna discuss education theory next since you want to question everything you think I don't know? I'm pretty big on scaffolding, but I saw a sped teacher who has implemented Whole Brain teaching in a high school classroom. It was pretty cool.

There was nothing to address. You're an attack dog going on the assault with no value or merit to anything you're espousing. You're pissed because someone is questioning a state of illogical thinking you personally buy into and therefore, took as a personal hit. Meanwhile you're attempting to discredit anyone who argues against you by parading your supposed degree in history; yet like anything else on the internet - pics or it didn't happen.

[The Iron Fist]

Isolation has never really succeeded in history either save for just base survival.

Just because countries are not multicultural doesn't make them isolationist. There are many countries in the world who are very resistant to multiculturalism (Japan, Korea, Russia, China, Mexico are some examples). That does not make them isolationist or evil. They come from the viewpoint that preserving their own culture is of higher value to them than other nations. Some would even argue that multiculturalism is what led to the rise of the alt-right in the West (i.e; Trump, Brexit, Erdogan, today's Poland and Hungary for example). You're viewing globalism vs. isolationism in a very binary way. It doesn't have to be, or is it necessarily, all one way or the other.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

But you can probably find just as many of those people who do understand the struggles everyone is going through as ones who don't. Just because someone is rich/famous/well-educated, doesn't mean they are oblivious to the suffering of others. A well intentioned globalism should be concerned with elevating our species rather than select groups.

Oh they're oblivious as fuck until it suits them otherwise. Then it becomes a bludgeoning tool for whatever they want to implement, consequences be damned. You cannot elevate the species. We're not some monolithic block you can get to dance to the same tune which is how I know this is a doctrine akin to religious zealotry. It's folly and based entirely on faith.

There is no such thing as "well-intentioned" globalism without the old saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" ringing throughout your head. The closest you get to that is trade. Trade helps attain peace and cross, to some degree, social/national barriers and works in a more natural manner. This shit we're doing today is beyond that. WAY beyond.

[xChurch]

Just because countries are not multicultural doesn't make them isolationist. There are many countries in the world who are very resistant to multiculturalism (Japan, Korea, Russia, China, Mexico are some examples). That does not make them isolationist or evil. They come from the viewpoint that preserving their own culture is of higher value to them than other nations. Some would even argue that multiculturalism is what led to the rise of the alt-right in the West (i.e; Trump, Brexit, Erdogan, today's Poland and Hungary for example). You're viewing multiculturalism vs. isolationism in a very binary way. It doesn't have to be, or is it necessarily, all one way or the other.

It's a balance, opening the floodgates is just as bad as closing them up completely. In Europe the balance has been thrown off in the one direction, in some countries like Japan it's been thrown off in the other one. America is a testament to that balance done exceptionally well for a long time.

Oh they're oblivious as fuck until it suits them otherwise. Then it becomes a bludgeoning tool for whatever they want to implement, consequences be damned. You cannot elevate the species. We're not some monolithic block you can get to dance to the same tune which is how I know this is a doctrine akin to religious zealotry. It's folly and based entirely on faith.

There is no such thing as "well-intentioned" globalism without the old saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" ringing throughout your head. The closest you get to that is trade.

I'm not sure of any Western leaders that can actually institute massive change almost unilaterally. And I'm not saying we should all be monolithic, I'm saying we need to care for every human better. It requires no adherence to a doctrine, or believe in anything grander, it only requires treating every human as an equal regardless of race/class/education etc etc.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

There is something to understand here.

While we can and should help people in need, it is fundamental to get the fact that this is driven by empathy. Empathy is flawed in the sense that it makes us blind to real issues that could arise because of it.

To better represent the concept, think about someone you know or yourself, if applicable, in a situation where you've been thrown in a puddle of trouble for willing to help someone who itself was in trouble. Think of a time where it backfired on you or someone you knew - like when you've loaned money to your best buddy and he ran away with it and insults you every time you bring it up.

The thing is, this shouldn't prevent us to help others. There are some things that still need to be asked first before making the jump, hard questions that need to be asked and taken into consideration when we do things like mass immigration. Because a vast majority of people will be grateful for this wonderful opportunity at life, but a small minority stand only for themselves.

[Freighter]

Just because countries are not multicultural doesn't make them isolationist. There are many countries in the world who are very resistant to multiculturalism (Japan, Korea, Russia, China, Mexico are some examples). That does not make them isolationist or evil. They come from the viewpoint that preserving their own culture is of higher value to them than other nations. Some would even argue that multiculturalism is what led to the rise of the alt-right in the West (i.e; Trump, Brexit, Erdogan, today's Poland and Hungary for example). You're viewing globalism vs. isolationism in a very binary way. It doesn't have to be, or is it necessarily, all one way or the other.

Korean resistance to multiculturalism is mainly based in korean ethnic nationalism, not preserving the culture but preserving the korean race. Regardless, SK is increasingly becoming more multicultural.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

There was nothing to address. You're an attack dog going on the assault with no value or merit to anything you're espousing. You're pissed because someone is questioning a state of illogical thinking you personally buy into and therefore, took as a personal hit. Meanwhile you're attempting to discredit anyone who argues against you by parading your supposed degree in history; yet like anything else on the internet - pics or it didn't happen.

So, let's gather this up for final review.

1.) Called me "arrogant" for deferring to historians who are actually familiar with the collapse of Rome (Apparently, you know better than them).
2.) Could never answer why we should build policy on uncertain and casual observations about the fall of the empire.
3.) Won't address that philosophical theories exist that are extremely skeptical of doing exactly what he proposes and that many expert historians subscribe to those theories.
4.) Apparently values evidence of a degree over reference to both theories in history and education.

What, you want my PEL too?

lol

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

So, let's gather this up for final review.

1.) Called me "arrogant" for deferring to historians who are actually familiar with the collapse of Rome (Apparently, you know better than them).
2.) Could never answer why we should build policy on uncertain and casual observations about the fall of the empire.
3.) Won't address that philosophical theories exist that are extremely skeptical of doing exactly what he proposes and that many expert historians subscribe to those theories.
4.) Apparently values evidence of a degree over reference to both theories in history and education.

What, you want my PEL too?

lol

Pics or it didn't happen. You're boring me now Mr. 77 posts and likely an alt account.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Pics or it didn't happen. You're boring me now Mr. 77 posts and likely an alt account.

Ooooooh, now we're down to my count and the fact that no one new ever actually signs up!

Seriously.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

It's a balance, opening the floodgates is just as bad as closing them up completely. In Europe the balance has been thrown off in the one direction, in some countries like Japan it's been thrown off in the other one. America is a testament to that balance done exceptionally well for a long time.



I'm not sure of any Western leaders that can actually institute massive change almost unilaterally. And I'm not saying we should all be monolithic, I'm saying we need to care for every human better. It requires no adherence to a doctrine, or believe in anything grander, it only requires treating every human as an equal regardless of race/class/education etc etc.

How about this: I worry about my part of the world. You worry about yours. Lead by example and through trade rather than abstract, ridiculous policy.

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Ooooooh, now we're down to my count and the fact that no one new ever actually signs up!

Seriously.

Yes, seriously. You're the one who touted yourself to be more than you are and when you begin doing that, one can't help but to notice some interesting similarities between you and other posters and then your post count. So yeah, you're growing dull on me at this point.

[xChurch]

How about this: I worry about my part of the world. You worry about yours. Lead by example and through trade rather than abstract, ridiculous policy.

That's what I want actually, that's why I referenced China. They are doing a lot of projects in other countries to facilitate more trade. It's mostly done for their benefit but does come with the added effect of helping out developing nations. It's something America actually used to be very good at.