Resto in 7.2.5

[Deleted]

The guy actually said cyclone.

Well, there are some people who are interested in PvP.

@RestoSpirit: 7 GCDs between every Wild Growth isn't "casting a lot".

[Tiberria]

The issue with claiming mobility as a "niche" is for that to actually be valid, there has to actually be fights where you actually need that mobility, and Druids are at an actual significant advantage over other healers because of that mobility. In my experience, the reality is - that type of fight type doesn't really exist. Holy Paladins had had garbage mobility for many expansions, but still always end up being top tier or near top tier in terms of both viability and output, because at the end of the day, there just isn't a real need to be able to run around constantly while healing compared to what a good player can do with movement and positioning on a less mobile class. It's not something like being the best tank healer or the best stacked healer or the best burst/triage healer, where there is an actual advantage in terms of viability and output to that niche. The extra mobility doesn't really end up netting you anything in practical terms. Name me some fights where RDruids are mandatory because of needing mobility.

As far as the other stuff, Tranq is a raid CD just like everyone else has. It heals for more, because it should heal for more, since it requires an 8 second channel (movable or not), while you can cast other stuff in the 8 secs after casting AM, Barrier, HTT, SLT and Revival. Yes, Ironbark is somewhat better than Sac, GS, PS, and Cocoon. However, it's not like the other healers (save Shaman since they have the second raid CD) don't have a viable tank CD option, and how many fights have you seen where you NEED Ironbark over a different tank CD? They are both basically standard things that every healing spec has. Innervate? Nope - 99% of RDruids use it on themselves, and it is thus built into the throughput balance of the spec. Sure, you can claim stuff like Ursol's/Typhoon/Mighty Bash/Mass Entanglement, but what healing spec has 0 baseline CC and 0 CC talent rows? I am pretty sure every single one has their own flavour of this type of thing, and they are also things that don't have any role on 90%+ of raid fights. You don't see people trying to call Hex and Hammer of Justice some special utility.

So yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, what Druids bring is essentially lots of effective healing and a similar utility toolkit to what every other healing spec has baseline. It's not like we have anything crazy like Ankh totems, etc. As a HoT healer, our worth is 100% predicated around the amount of raw throughput we do. If we do the same healing as a Shaman, there's no reason to bring a Druid over a 2nd or 3rd Shaman, because you get more burst healing when it matters from a Shaman, and all of the extra stuff (extra SLTs, anhk totem option, Wind Rush, etc.).

[Deleted]

talking about niches but keep comparing cross-niche to justify being overpowered as shit

[Mazzeric]

Ok, so Druid is knocked down to be in line with Hpriest and Monk throughputwise in 7.2.5.

Ironbark > Guardian Spirit and Life Cocoon
Tranq > DHymn and Revival

(AKA the only cooldowns that matter in a raid environment)

So you are still solidly the #3 pick for any raid team that can choose. What is the problem again?

[Tiberria]

Ok, so Druid is knocked down to be in line with Hpriest and Monk throughputwise in 7.2.5.

Ironbark > Guardian Spirit and Life Cocoon
Tranq > DHymn and Revival

(AKA the only cooldowns that matter in a raid environment)

So you are still solidly the #3 pick for any raid team that can choose. What is the problem again?

You're conveniently ignoring that Revival is on a 2:20 CD instead of 3:00. Yes, Tranq can be talented down, but it's a talent that usually isn't taken.

Also, the numbers would suggest that Druids aren't knocked down to the same level HPriests/MW, the numbers suggest that they are going to be way below them.
- HPriest throughput on live is deflated because they have a terrible T19 4pc. They are getting great set bonuses in T20.
- MW are getting a 4% raw buff relative to live, plus a further buff from the Essence Font redesign (at least in realistic situations where they aren't fed Innervates). They also have much better T20 bonuses than Druids.

- With current numbers, at the 95th percentile, RDruid is doing 8% more healing than HPriest. When you factor in the 4% across the board nerf, a ~1% nerf from the Cultivation nerf, a ~5% nerf from losing the shoulders, a further ~8% nerf from switching from T19 to T20, and probably a further ~4% from HPriest having set bonuses in T20 about as good as T19 Druid set bonuses, you Druids losing a net of 22% healing relative to HPriests. That isn't putting us "on par" with them, that probably puts us something like 13% behind them.

- At the same 95th percentile numbers, RDruid is 21% ahead of MW. The 4% MW raw buff and the 4% RDruid raw nerf immediately cuts that delta to 13% without factoring in anything else. I would factor in 5% for shoulders, 8% for the T19 to T20 druid switch, probably another 5% buff to MW from the Essence Font redesign, and about another 2% buff to MW from having a better T20 set bonus. That totals up to Druids being projected to be ~7% behind MW in ToS.

So, if these changes actually put MW/HPriest/RDruid at about the same throughput, that would be one thing, and mostly fine. However, they objectively do not. These changes make us the weakest of the 3 throughput healers. They also don't address the elephant in the room of - why are Paladins and Shaman still mandatory for every raid encounter, and why were those specs not touched. It's totally unwarranted to gut Druid throughput (which is at the core of why the spec actually has value/viability) while turning a blind eye to the two specs that are the actual god damned problems in the first place. All this does is makes Druids even more shit than MW and HPriest are now, while still leaving 2 specs in guaranteed raid spots and 3-4 healing specs fighting for the last 1-2 remaining spots. It's also totally unfair to players and raid teams that have been running with multiple RDruids given the overhead and effort put into AP, legendaries, etc this expansion. They should not be making a spec go from top tier to trash tier mid expansion unless they want to give us a service to transfer our legendaries, AP, etc. to a different spec.

[Purpleisbetter]

5% nerf from losing the shoulders <--- do we loose a legendary slot/ are we forced to use shoulders no matter what?

8% nerf from switching from T19 to T20 <--- Do we have a T20 which is the same ilvl of T19 that has no bonuses at all?

Are you accounting for, untill nerfs (i admit i dont know if that happend already) occurs, that we have the chance to keep our pretty good 2pct19?

Not saying we're in a good place, but 13% behind Hpriest? Are you serious?

Anyway, i'm ready with the reroll in case 7.2.5 equals to a spiral of death for resto druids. At least, untill the devs make it right again.

[Tiberria]

5% nerf from losing the shoulders <--- do we loose a legendary slot/ are we forced to use shoulders no matter what?

8% nerf from switching from T19 to T20 <--- Do we have a T20 which is the same ilvl of T19 that has no bonuses at all?

Are you accounting for, untill nerfs (i admit i dont know if that happend already) occurs, that we have the chance to keep our pretty good 2pct19?

Not saying we're in a good place, but 13% behind Hpriest? Are you serious?

Anyway, i'm ready with the reroll in case 7.2.5 equals to a spiral of death for resto druids. At least, untill the devs make it right again.

The shoulders in best case scenarios (which are creating the edge cases causing everyone to rage about Druid HPS being too high) are adding like 10-12% extra healing. Swapping them with say Prydaz, belt, or Tearstone, probably cuts that down to 5-7%. Therefore, it's as much as a 5% nerf.

Similarly, the T19 2pc is worth about 3% and the T19 4pc can go up to 10-12% extra healing in best case scenarios (especially with shoulders). That's 13%-15% healing from T19. The T20 4pc is only worth about 3-4%, and the T20 2pc is worth a marginal amount. Therefore, we could lose as much as 10% throughput from the switch from T19 to T20. Yes, we may well end up still wearing T19 2pc to mitigate that ~3%, but keep in mind that we probably have to take an ilvl/INT hit to do that, so the relative gains will decrease.

My math may be focusing too much on the 95th percentile and the edge cases in terms of top logs, but yes, if those nerf percentages were overlaid on the current Nighthold aggregate rankings, we would be the 5th or 6th best healer. Keep in mind that we won't see that drop off immediately in 7.2.5, because we will still be using T19 4pc for at least the first few weeks, but our position will likely continue to slide backward, because I strongly suspect we have the worst set bonuses of any throughput healer.

[Deleted]

couldn't happen to a nicer spec :')

[avx81]

I don't like nerfs but they are totally justified. Have some of you looked at warcraftlogs? Resto druids on multiple fights are averaging 50-100k hps in front of the healer behind them and closer to 150k-200k higher than healers more torward the bottom. Resto druid output is completely out of control right now to a point if left untouched because of how well they appear to be scaling would completely render other healers worthless. With the exception of maybe magistrix resto druids a full head on top of other healers. To be perfectly honest they could have been hit by the nerf bat even harder because they are scaling so well that they will likely still be ahead of other healers by a large margin next patch. Time will tell.

[Purpleisbetter]

The shoulders in best case scenarios (which are creating the edge cases causing everyone to rage about Druid HPS being too high) are adding like 10-12% extra healing. Swapping them with say Prydaz, belt, or Tearstone, probably cuts that down to 5-7%. Therefore, it's as much as a 5% nerf.

Similarly, the T19 2pc is worth about 3% and the T19 4pc can go up to 10-12% extra healing in best case scenarios (especially with shoulders). That's 13%-15% healing from T19. The T20 4pc is only worth about 3-4%, and the T20 2pc is worth a marginal amount. Therefore, we could lose as much as 10% throughput from the switch from T19 to T20. Yes, we may well end up still wearing T19 2pc to mitigate that ~3%, but keep in mind that we probably have to take an ilvl/INT hit to do that, so the relative gains will decrease.

My math may be focusing too much on the 95th percentile and the edge cases in terms of top logs, but yes, if those nerf percentages were overlaid on the current Nighthold aggregate rankings, we would be the 5th or 6th best healer. Keep in mind that we won't see that drop off immediately in 7.2.5, because we will still be using T19 4pc for at least the first few weeks, but our position will likely continue to slide backward, because I strongly suspect we have the worst set bonuses of any throughput healer.

For better or worse, numbers are going to differ, also you severely overestimate 4pcT19 (whic, for the love of god, is good, but not that good).

Also, you're totally off with the relative gain of 4pcT20.

Again, i'm agree with you that future in 7.2.5 is looking grim, i just disagree with the numbers. Soon enough we will find out.

Btw, is lege head working on PTR? Do we have official figures for proc rate and duration? Maybe blizz will throw us a bone with a very strong legendary there.

[Tiberria]

I don't like nerfs but they are totally justified. Have some of you looked at warcraftlogs? Resto druids on multiple fights are averaging 50-100k hps in front of the healer behind them and closer to 150k-200k higher than healers more torward the bottom. Resto druid output is completely out of control right now to a point if left untouched because of how well they appear to be scaling would completely render other healers worthless. With the exception of maybe magistrix resto druids a full head on top of other healers. To be perfectly honest they could have been hit by the nerf bat even harder because they are scaling so well that they will likely still be ahead of other healers by a large margin next patch. Time will tell.

But how much of that tuning and scaling is linked to the combination of the shoulders + tier 19 set bonuses? The numbers on live right now are irrelevant because they are inflated to all hell because of that synergy.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, is lege head working on PTR? Do we have official figures for proc rate and duration? Maybe blizz will throw us a bone with a very strong legendary there.

Yes, it's a 15% proc rate on WG casts, and it lasts 12 seconds. It also doesn't buff the WG cast that procs it. The timing around getting another WG off before it expires is extremely tight. With a 1.3 second GCD, you only have a 0.7 second window to start casting WG after it comes off CD to get a buffed one off. If you have to move during that 0.7 seconds or screw up the timing and end up on GCD, you won't get it off in time, and getting it off it time will potentially require skipping squeezing an extra Rejuv cast in.

It seems like it will be pretty cumbersome to use, plus using up a tier slot and ruling out using 2pc+4pc.

[RestoSpirit]

Name me some fights where RDruids are mandatory because of needing mobility.

Hey,

Fallen Avatar and KJ are looking like HEAVY movement fights. I agree with you on most of your points/posts here, but the question really is: Is blizzard even reading this? I made a very long post 1-2 pages ago and just one person even bothered answering (with a troll-comment). All your effort and math is pointless if devs aren't aware this forum exists.

Cheers
RestoSpirit

[thebdc]

Now that it's established that resto druid will be the worst healer ever and could as well be removed from the game, how do you think will resto druid do in mythic+?

[Deleted]

I don't like nerfs but they are totally justified. Have some of you looked at warcraftlogs? Resto druids on multiple fights are averaging 50-100k hps in front of the healer behind them and closer to 150k-200k higher than healers more torward the bottom. Resto druid output is completely out of control right now to a point if left untouched because of how well they appear to be scaling would completely render other healers worthless. With the exception of maybe magistrix resto druids a full head on top of other healers. To be perfectly honest they could have been hit by the nerf bat even harder because they are scaling so well that they will likely still be ahead of other healers by a large margin next patch. Time will tell.

all of this have been explained multiple times now... maybe read through the topic next time you are about to post in

- - - Updated - - -

Hey,

Fallen Avatar and KJ are looking like HEAVY movement fights. I agree with you on most of your points/posts here, but the question really is: Is blizzard even reading this? I made a very long post 1-2 pages ago and just one person even bothered answering (with a troll-comment). All your effort and math is pointless if devs aren't aware this forum exists.

Cheers
RestoSpirit

if you wanna make posts for blizzard to potentially read you do on the official forums. So no, you should expect they dont

[theburned]

The issue with claiming mobility as a "niche" is for that to actually be valid, there has to actually be fights where you actually need that mobility, and Druids are at an actual significant advantage over other healers because of that mobility. In my experience, the reality is - that type of fight type doesn't really exist. Holy Paladins had had garbage mobility for many expansions, but still always end up being top tier or near top tier in terms of both viability and output, because at the end of the day, there just isn't a real need to be able to run around constantly while healing compared to what a good player can do with movement and positioning on a less mobile class. It's not something like being the best tank healer or the best stacked healer or the best burst/triage healer, where there is an actual advantage in terms of viability and output to that niche. The extra mobility doesn't really end up netting you anything in practical terms. Name me some fights where RDruids are mandatory because of needing mobility.

You are looking at this at a far too binary perspective, healers being mandatory is and should never be a thing, there has been a few cases of this, particularly regarding shamans due to a heavy utility focused toolkit with great spot and stacked healing. This was a boss design failure, not giving enough raid damage to require 3+ healers.
Healer niches in most cases means you for x fight would rather bring y class over z class. I dont see why anyone would not have at least 1 resto druid for Maiden, fallen avatar and Kil'jaden, there is heavy mobility, and large benefits to blinks. Its not without reason that I was consistently on top of the meters for fallen avatar by a significant margin. For kil'jaden the damage was not big enough for hots to kick in, but the patterns heavily favour rdruids, and the fight just seems tailored around our toolkit. And for maiden, being able to move 90% of the time while dodging soaking orbs is just ridiculous.

So yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, what Druids bring is essentially lots of effective healing and a similar utility toolkit to what every other healing spec has baseline. It's not like we have anything crazy like Ankh totems, etc. As a HoT healer, our worth is 100% predicated around the amount of raw throughput we do. If we do the same healing as a Shaman, there's no reason to bring a Druid over a 2nd or 3rd Shaman, because you get more burst healing when it matters from a Shaman, and all of the extra stuff (extra SLTs, anhk totem option, Wind Rush, etc.).

The only fight I see myself being sat in favor of a 2nd rshaman is misstress sassz'ine, which seems to just be another star augur fight, with heavier DR cd requirements.
While also active tank healing isn't a thing, but only rdruids and paladins bring so much passive tank healing you would rather have 2 healers just cover 90% of tank healing passively (easier for the tanks as they know how much healing they got to work with.) Than all healers having to put extra thought to get healing on tanks when you preferably would focus on the raid.

Also I dont see us not bringing significantly more throughput than a 2nd shaman, while there are times where I am behind 1 of them, the 2nd one never seem to pose any threat as far as throughput goes.

Both the priest speccs are far more threating to our spot, but again holy priest lacking any significant utility, and only benefit that they are better at spot healing than us, then again they only bring throughput, but will again just be a turret which seems like a significant downside for any of the important bosses.
Disc priest on the other hand matches our healing pattern and brings significant throughput, is good at healing while moving, has a cd rivaling SLT, not to mention that they can bring 3-400k dps to the table, while scaling both in terms of damage and healing when there are several targets. Not to mention their burst healing being sick.

I wont bother going into mw, as I am the one playing mw if for some reason we decide to bring mw over druid, but I dont see much of a reason for swapping unless there is something we can cheese by having a mw.

- - - Updated - - -

Enough ranting about the bad 2p, let's look at the new 4p. The first iterration of it was a 400% increase to your efflo healing for 8sec via swiftment, which was interesting. You would have Efflo up anyway (at least good druids do, I tend to fail on this part) and timing your swiftment in a way that you will get some solid RAIDHEALING, which btw decreases the value of the 2p even more. It took planing and knowledge of the encounter to maximize it. Now with the new iterration its just a flat 50%+ increase to efflo healing. It has a 15sec duration and you will use swiftment on cooldown to keep the buff going. Not only is it boring now since it takes absoluty no planing, it too (like the 2p) takes healing from other niches. Shamans healing rain and the monk 3 people heal are niches that like our efflo will be thrown at the meele camp most of the time. In combination they all have a small profit from it, if you buff one of them the other niches become more inefficient. Instead the 4p should enhance our niche which is sustainable HIGH AOE healing (the old 4p was way closer to that...).

Our current 4p is just ridiculously strong, there is no way around that, and its just not a good design goal to have something thats as good. "sustainable HIGH AOE healing" You must be joking right? This isnt a niche, it just places you at the top of the healing hierarchy. The 100% over 15 sec iteration was terrible, current 200% over 10 seconds is fairly decent, its throughput is in line with what you expect from a set bonus, it synergizes well with velens which is bis, and also gives some significant power to 2 "weak" spells. (efflo is ofc efficient but its just there basically.). With 2p boosting its uptime by a fairly decent margin.

I was really excited when I first heard about the ring that will give you a talent until... I found out it's SotF.
Again: WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT BLIZZARD?! NO ONE PLAYS SoTF!
I checked the top 10 parses for every encounter in Nighthold. Not ONE rdruid playing sotf and no one will if you force it on us!
The ring should give a talent that is played all the time so it frees up 2 other options which we usually would'nt play cause they can't compete. Giving us cultivation or germination baseline would be way more interesting, cause we would have the choice which of the "bad" talents we would take.

Now you force us to decide between a good legendary and a talent we usually would not play and the really interesting part: Sotf works in combination with swiftment, so does the new 4p. We now have to choose which one we want to use, since you will use swiftment on CD for the new 4p (the old 400% iterration would have worked better here) or we take the ring and can't have the 50% uptime on 4p since we want to save our swiftment to line it with WG. Sorry but that's just some serious bulls*it design, and leads me to the conclusion that devs don't play the game.

Before you say this is a shitty option you have to look at which talents we could realistically gotten instead, and no cultivation is not one of them.
Abundance/prosperty (prosperity being close to no hps gain talent, and abundance being a tank healing niche which we already have 2 legendaries cover is fairly pointless.)
sotf (cult is not an option because together with ToL it would break druids.) A talent which is never picked, not because its weak, but its not an option because cult outperforms it in every single situation where healing is required, and ToL outperforms it if people arent dropping below 60%, yet this talent has fairly good synergy with cult and ToL. Also the talent suffers from awkward cds between WG and SM, which in the past forced you into prosperity or losing out on either sotf or wg usage, t20 2p fixes this.)
Inner peace (SB and germ is not an option as it would lead to a situation like we had on beta where mastery just scales out of control.)
Inner peace is not worth a legendary slot, and if I for some reason want the talent I am fine with picking the talent and use a decent legendary instead.
Moment of clarity/stonebark (hpriests got a weaker version of MoC, can tell you they werent happy, neither would we be, and stonebark is too similar to xoni's which is never used in the first place.)

Realistically speaking SotF is the best talent we could've gotten. (only MoC and IP wouldve been okay options.)
Also there is 4p synergy, it doesnt make you choose between 4p or sotf proc, the situations generally go like this:
Damage goes out, you think "I want some heavy healing." press SM, both your efflo and next WG will do significant healing for the next 10 seconds. This has great synergy with velens aswell, which will be your best combination with this legendary (or anyother for that matter.)

Tbh pumping out WGs that do 9m healing on demand, sounds significantly stronger to me than some RNG rejuvs from tearstone (which was a very good legendary before it got nerfed.) while I believe its also stronger in total throughput.

The Incarnation Head legendary looked pretty promising until we got the final chance and duration. The chance is just way to low to justify it against one of the strong legendaries. The duration had the right intend: 12sec means we will get a buffed WG but it did not consider that good players will want to fill every GCD. For lagtolerance we would have to wait for the WG coming up instead of filling with an extra reju.

Truetalk is, it's gonna be sh*t. Healers hate RNG especially if they have the choice to use something with less or no RNG. Incarnation can be INSANE here if you get it just at the perfect moment of high damage or it can be completly useless (pretty much the same for all of the Head legendaries for healers). Instead the legendary should either be on use, stacking or on a different spell. I will talk about each of the options:
a) on use:
On use would probably be too good or to bad depending on how long the duration would be and it would be to close to the ring design-wise. It would give us ultimate control and the legendary would be used on fights where you have high AOE burst healing to do, heavily dependent on the CD of the legendary as well.
b) stacking:
It should need 4 WG casts to procc the tree, would give you a little more control but although a little less freedom with your WG. You could combine the first too, which would be my preferred choice. You would have to stack it up to 4 with 4 WG casts and get an "on use"-button to finally procc the tree.
c) different spell:
WG is somewhat situational since you don't want to spam it like Hpriests spam their PoM. I think the legendary could be way stronger if it would come with a tradeoff. E.g. you would have to use barkskin (your defensive CD) to procc the Tree (an "offensive" CD). That would give the legendary a natural cooldown and you could even reduce the duration to 8-10 sec (-> one WG cast per use). Controlwise that would be great, and you have that tradeoff to "waste" a def-CD.

While it is indeed bad, its the same for all healers, Ive yet to see anyone happy about their healer random proc legendary, I think the resto one is one of the better ones, due to having a fairly long duration, and proccing when we want it, half of the work is already done when it procs, and it makes your rejuvs cheaper. And its also a high-stat budget item. And tbf the theorycrafting on it doesnt sound too awful.
I dont see myself ever using it, but to me it looks like one of the more solid of x spell procs y cd. Still shit however.


Also if you wonder why only 1 troll responded to you, it's most likely because your post comes off as you having too little knowledge or just plain childish. I'm not generally coming here to teach people, I already do this on the druid discord.

[axxey]

meters put a slant on everything not in a healing effectiveness way. Druids will say cenarian ward is the go to talent in current content, in reality in current content it will be cast on tank constantly, CW is an effective snipe heal and just reduces tank's self healing, beacon healing and looks good on meters. Either of the other options contribute more to effective healing potential and less to meters unless your tanks are bad.(I'll still be taking CW most the time)

Deep rooted also has heavy heavy synergi with shoulders/t19 blanketing play style and the spike in druids on overall charts since 7.2. They both create more opportunity to turn potential healing into high throughput healing.

[RestoSpirit]

Hey,

Our current 4p is just ridiculously strong, there is no way around that, and its just not a good design goal to have something thats as good. "sustainable HIGH AOE healing" You must be joking right? This isnt a niche, it just places you at the top of the healing hierarchy. The 100% over 15 sec iteration was terrible, current 200% over 10 seconds is fairly decent, its throughput is in line with what you expect from a set bonus, it synergizes well with velens which is bis, and also gives some significant power to 2 "weak" spells. (efflo is ofc efficient but its just there basically.). With 2p boosting its uptime by a fairly decent margin.

I agree the current 4p is insane, and you are right it shouldn't be like that. I disagree with the statement that rdruids shouldn't top meters, because we lack so much utility we should bring some good throughput to the table. I think we should top meters if played perfectly with a little lead of like 2-4%. It should be the other way around for M+ because we have so much utility there, we should probably lack some throughput. I get your point but I think Tset should enhance our strong side and not buff the weakness (definitely opinionbased).

Before you say this is a shitty option you have to look at which talents we could realistically gotten instead, and no cultivation is not one of them.
Abundance/prosperty (prosperity being close to no hps gain talent, and abundance being a tank healing niche which we already have 2 legendaries cover is fairly pointless.)
sotf (cult is not an option because together with ToL it would break druids.) A talent which is never picked, not because its weak, but its not an option because cult outperforms it in every single situation where healing is required, and ToL outperforms it if people arent dropping below 60%, yet this talent has fairly good synergy with cult and ToL. Also the talent suffers from awkward cds between WG and SM, which in the past forced you into prosperity or losing out on either sotf or wg usage, t20 2p fixes this.)
Inner peace (SB and germ is not an option as it would lead to a situation like we had on beta where mastery just scales out of control.)
Inner peace is not worth a legendary slot, and if I for some reason want the talent I am fine with picking the talent and use a decent legendary instead.
Moment of clarity/stonebark (hpriests got a weaker version of MoC, can tell you they werent happy, neither would we be, and stonebark is too similar to xoni's which is never used in the first place.)

I'd rather have CW/Prosperity or ToL/Cult (Cult should be nerfed a little more). Prosperity is not a throughput gain but it's a great quality of life talent (being able to hold on 2 stacks for big damage phases) which would be even better with new 4p. ToL + cult is obviously good but cult should be nerfed anyway, not the healing this should stay the same but it should procc on targets lower than 60% maybe even as low as 40% (still king on fights like krosus where people drop very low in progress, but not as broken as before). The combination would be "fun to play", at least I miss ToL very much if I have to play with cult, and yeah it's a throughput gain which it should be, to be the top legendary. ( new legendaries should be good, yeah I know powercreep sucks, but it sucks even more to loot something instantly going to your bank....)

Realistically speaking SotF is the best talent we could've gotten. (only MoC and IP wouldve been okay options.)
Also there is 4p synergy, it doesnt make you choose between 4p or sotf proc, the situations generally go like this:
Damage goes out, you think "I want some heavy healing." press SM, both your efflo and next WG will do significant healing for the next 10 seconds. This has great synergy with velens aswell, which will be your best combination with this legendary (or anyother for that matter.)

Tbh pumping out WGs that do 9m healing on demand, sounds significantly stronger to me than some RNG rejuvs from tearstone (which was a very good legendary before it got nerfed.) while I believe its also stronger in total throughput.

Well I beg to differ, you will want your 4p up as often as possible so you will probably use swiftment as soon as it comes of CD and maybe cast a reju more often than a WG afterwards since significant damage is missing. Which means you will "waste" the sotf-procc, that heavily devalues the ring in my opinion. For sure the moments where everything lines perfectly (+ velens) it is very good.

While it is indeed bad, its the same for all healers, Ive yet to see anyone happy about their healer random proc legendary, I think the resto one is one of the better ones, due to having a fairly long duration, and proccing when we want it, half of the work is already done when it procs, and it makes your rejuvs cheaper. And its also a high-stat budget item. And tbf the theorycrafting on it doesnt sound too awful.
I dont see myself ever using it, but to me it looks like one of the more solid of x spell procs y cd. Still shit however.

Well that's exactly the point, why would blizzard invent something on all healclasses that is useless on all of them and keeps you from getting the "good" legendaries. We should be hyped for the new legendary, it should be fun and it should be GOOD.

Also if you wonder why only 1 troll responded to you, it's most likely because your post comes off as you having too little knowledge or just plain childish. I'm not generally coming here to teach people, I already do this on the druid discord.

Hmm could be that or could be because it was too long. I thought of myself as fairly knowledgable concerning restodruids, most of my post is obvious my opinion, and there is no wrong or right to it. That's just the way I see the game and I see my class fitting into a raidsetup, which I lead my post with. Anyway thank you very much for your detailed opinion. Very interesting to get a different view on the matter.

Cheers
RestoSpirit

[Tiberria]

Realistically speaking SotF is the best talent we could've gotten. (only MoC and IP wouldve been okay options.)
Also there is 4p synergy, it doesnt make you choose between 4p or sotf proc, the situations generally go like this:
Damage goes out, you think "I want some heavy healing." press SM, both your efflo and next WG will do significant healing for the next 10 seconds. This has great synergy with velens aswell, which will be your best combination with this legendary (or anyother for that matter.)

I think they could have used any of the talents on the Spring Blossoms/Inner Peace/Germination tier and it would have been a better legendary design. Outside of raw numbers, the reason why a lot of people have never liked SoTF since it was initially introduced is they feel it locks your gameplay into too much of a rotational use of spells, and feels cumbersome/punative if you want to use Swiftmend for a single target burst heal, but don't want/need to cast a WG right after, or just screw up and use the SoTF buff on a Rejuv by accident. The T20 set bonuses already add an additional layer of rotational combination to Swiftmend, which could make using SoTF feel even more irritating (you want to use Swiftmend on a low health target, but also might want it as a spot heal, but also need to use it on near CD for the Efflo buff but also don't want to use it when Efflo is at 100% overheal and also need to line it up with WG being off CD and being worth casting). Regardless of how that looks on paper numbers wise (and I still don't think it's compelling relative to say Prydaz/belt in numbers either), it's going to feel like a total clusterfuck to play and maximize.

The Germ/IP/SB talent row would be better just because they are all passive buffs that don't make your playstyle more irritating. Germination would be way too strong to have as a passive on live, but the reason it's almost a default pick is the shoulders-t19 interaction. In T20, it will go back to being suboptimal to take unless you need more single target/debuff type healing. Neither Inner Peace nor Spring Blossoms are really overwhelming in terms of throughput contribution; both are in the 6%-8% range you would get from one of the top options for #2 legendary, and I think would certainly feel better than SoTF.

[Glorious Leader]

Fuck i dont even care if we top meters i just hate being pigeonheld into doing x or y.

[fallenangel-succ]

It seems pretty clear they preferred using cross-spec talents wherever it was possible. Regardless, the last thing any class needs is a spec-defining legendary added at this point.