The power level of playable races in Lore

[Zulkhan]

Giving any side anything defeats the entire point. You give a human magic and he can beat a tauren then you give a tauren magic too then you wil never know who wins.

It's not really about giving anything, people usually fight with weapons rather than fists. A tree trunk is a Tauren's standard weapon, much like there are Worgen disdaining the usage of actual weapons because of their claws and fangs.

[Wildmoon]

It's not really about giving anything, people usually fight with weapons rather than fists. A tree trunk is a Tauren's standard weapon, much like there are Worgen disdaining the usage of actual weapons because of their claws and fangs.

then a worgen can just use a gun which is fairly standard in Gilneas... and I dunno how giving a tauren a tree trunk will make fangs and claws not achieving much. The demons had weapons too and they were killed just as easily with fangs and claws.

[Ilikegreenfire]

So they jumped forward from a high place, that's not a feat of strength, that's called gravity. Climbing walls also doesn't require massive physical strength. Kids climb walls all the time, it just require strength relative to body weight. Worgens are also not 8 foot tall.

Ilikegreenfire seems to be arguing that worgens have more raw strength than taurens.

That comparison is purposely skewing the argument to the worgens' favor and you know it. If you wanna play like then why not do bull vs dog? We all know neither taurens nor worgens are based off of domesticated animals.

Wild bulls have been known to kill lions in one on one, and even injuring some against a pride. Even then, worgens and taurens aren't the same size. This statement admits that worgens are at a physical disadvantage because they have to be made the same size.

Day of the Dragon was released a year before WC3, where taurens were first introduced. I'd like to know which book stated that taurens and dwarves are equal in strength.

This is complete conjecture. The taurens' physical feats outclass the worgens in every instance with the exception of agility.

May 9, 2014 – “@Loreology How tall are Worgen on average?” “On average? Females about 8’, and the same for males (when hunched over).”

The jump required massive force to propel them off the curch and on to the building, gravity pulls you strait down it takes real power to climb a vertical wall being 300+ pounds and have the propulsion to jump far enough while gravity is acting on you.

[Friendlyimmolation]

May 9, 2014 – “@Loreology How tall are Worgen on average?” “On average? Females about 8’, and the same for males (when hunched over).”

The jump required massive force to propel them off the curch and on to the building, gravity pulls you strait down it takes real power to climb a vertical wall being 300+ pounds and have the propulsion to jump far enough while gravity is acting on you.

Uh, you do realize still nothing posted here has shown them to be stronger than Tauren? Before you go on about vertices again

Claws act as natural climbing gear.

[Techno-Druid]

In terms of magical talent? Humans are more powerful than blood/high elves but lack the natural discipline that elves have.

In terms of physical strength? Tauren hands down alongside the other "beast races" (yes, including pandaren who are you know...bears!). Orcs are up there too.

Elves and trolls are probably the most graceful.

In terms of intellect? Gnomes and goblins.

[Clone]

May 9, 2014 – “@Loreology How tall are Worgen on average?” “On average? Females about 8’, and the same for males (when hunched over).”

The jump required massive force to propel them off the curch and on to the building, gravity pulls you strait down it takes real power to climb a vertical wall being 300+ pounds and have the propulsion to jump far enough while gravity is acting on you.

Old info, as of Legion male worgens are 6'10" hunched.

Also, while gravity pulls you down, leaping forward from a tall surface increases the end distance compared than leaping from a flat surface. It's because more time passes to allow forward propulsion. That's how physics work, it's not super strength.

Also no, climbing walls is not some super power. People in real life do it all the time. Real life soldiers climb walls with full equipment that weighs up to 100 lbs. Put that on a average weight of 180 lbs and it goes up to 280lbs. Worgens being able to climb walls is not some amazing super power. The only impressive feat is that one worgen tossing a stagecoach, and that was only a single incident.

Mean while we have taurens swinging logs, cutting down trees with a single swipe, wrecking mechs, and cracking open grounds with warstomp as regular occurrences.

[Nurvus]

A Tauren much stronger than a Gnome etc

If you try to consider "power" level based off raw attributes you are doing it wrong.

If anything, you could say races are not properly represented in gameplay mechanics.

For any given class, a Gnome would not fight the same way a Tauren would.
A Goblin/Gnome Warrior would learn to fight like any Warrior, but would display greater proficiency than other races at using all sorts of Gadgets to reduce or eliminate the gap in Strength.

So I think the differences in power level are lower than you think.
You're too focused on natural attributes and forgetting all the skill/techniques that are race-specific.

I think the ultimate change to WoW race/class design is getting rid of the concept of Racials that are supposed to function for all classes/specs and start making classes/specs play differently based on Race, effectively removing the need for Racials.
Essentially watching Tauren headbutt, stomp; Gnomes using gadget-assisted attacks, elves being acrobatic, etc.

[Zulkhan]

then a worgen can just use a gun which is fairly standard in Gilneas... and I dunno how giving a tauren a tree trunk will make fangs and claws not achieving much. The demons had weapons too and they were killed just as easily with fangs and claws.

And the Tauren can use a gun too, which is the exact type of weapon their hunters begin to use as novices. I thought this was about physical feats, not gun duels.

And sharps and fangs will not achieve much because they have no range whatsover and force the closest of melee confrontations. On the other hand, a Tauren swinging a giant tree trunk gets a pretty huge range and can keep such foe at constant distance. And even if the Worgen pulls it out and somehow manages to bypass the defense put by the trunk, Tauren are resilient and giant bulls with the arguably highest amounts of stamina among all playable races. Unless the Worgen doesn't manage to go for the throat directly (not the easiest of feats given the situation) most of the attacks will end up looking like scratches.

[Graden]

Genn Greymane is a King that put his people first, he put the wall up because he believed Gilneas could be and should be self sufficient - maybe he was wrong in doing that. In Wolfheart we saw him accept he has made mistakes, and we saw the honor and courage of him and his people. We saw him lose his only son to the Banshee Queen, and rather than fail and falter as many would - he joined the Alliance and became one of Varian's most trusted advisor. He hates Orcs, sure, because they invaded his world, don't tell me if an alien race attacked your world and burned your people you wouldn't react the same - he hates the Forsaken, they took his home and his son. Genn Greymane is a paragon of the Alliance, and an example of how powerful and resourceful humans can be

Still, Genn was a racist. Everything you say is true, but you're talking about the 'new' him. Good ol' Genn was a damn powerhungry man and a racist. A man that would never trust an Elf or a Draenei for example. I mean, back then it was hard enough for him to trust or help other fellow human Kingdoms.
He put his people first and believed he was doing the best for Gilneas, I agree. But that doesn't mean that he wasn't a strong willed racist person. That's not necessarily bad, because it was one of the reasons I liked him as a character, and still do. A unique and interesting character with flaws.(btw real me is not a racist obviously, I just love Genn's story).

All the suffering and the dramatic events that followed gave birth to a whole new Genn (well, not really new). A man that is able to trust and help his allies (including other species) etc. Currently in Legion, I'm quite happy to see that elements of his former self are still there. I wasn't really a big fan of Genn's personality in Cataclysm.

[Clone]

And the Tauren can use a gun too, which is the exact type of weapon their hunters begin to use as novices. I thought this was about physical feats, not gun duels.

And sharps and fangs will not achieve much because they have no range whatsover and force the closest of melee confrontations. On the other hand, a Tauren swinging a giant tree trunk gets a pretty huge range and can keep such foe at constant distance. And even if the Worgen pulls it out and somehow manages to bypass the defense put by the trunk, Tauren are resilient and giant bulls with the arguably highest amounts of stamina among all playable races. Unless the Worgen doesn't manage to go for the throat directly (not the easiest of feats given the situation) most of the attacks will end up looking like scratches.

Just as an addition, weapons are big advantages in combat. In fact if you sign up for a self defense class they will tell you running away is the best option because you never know if the other guy has a weapon. Also, if you watch any nature documentaries, claws and fangs don't instantly kill the prey. Most group hunters work together to tire out a prey. A lot of the times the prey doesn't die and until they start eating.

[Deleted]

So many people are replying besides the point.
The OP asked about the "POWER LEVEL" of "PLAYABLE RACES".
I'm not sure if he intended this or not, but he DOES NOT ask about the physical/magical/whatever power level of AN INDIVIDUAL MEMBER of the playable races. Just the power level of the playable races overall. That's what he says (and then he goes on to compare individual members, i know).
The only objective true answer to this is: the human RACE is the most powerful. They lead the alliance. And the alliance at the moment is stronger than the horde. Therefor, the human RACE is the most powerful.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Old info, as of Legion male worgens are 6'10" hunched.

Also, while gravity pulls you down, leaping forward from a tall surface increases the end distance compared than leaping from a flat surface. It's because more time passes to allow forward propulsion. That's how physics work, it's not super strength.

Also no, climbing walls is not some super power. People in real life do it all the time. Real life soldiers climb walls with full equipment that weighs up to 100 lbs. Put that on a average weight of 180 lbs and it goes up to 280lbs. Worgens being able to climb walls is not some amazing super power. The only impressive feat is that one worgen tossing a stagecoach, and that was only a single incident.

Mean while we have taurens swinging logs, cutting down trees with a single swipe, wrecking mechs, and cracking open grounds with warstomp as regular occurrences.

Source on worgen height? That's not somthing that can change it's based on the ingame model. Your telling me worgen are only slightly taller than humans? Look with your own eyes.

Launching yourself off of a verticle surface and actuially getting distance instead of simply plumiting to the ground is diffrent than a running jump off a raised surface, or even gripping the edge.

Those average worgen made that massive jump using only their leg mussels on a single jump.

Cloeset thing you can experience to how hard that would be would to try and jump off of a vertical rockwall and see how far you can get.

A worgen in full plate can move as fast as a horse. Meaning it's muscles are just as good if not better than tauren.

Also despite that ancient concept pic you linked (ironic) normal tauren don't really fight with their fists or fist weapons their are runebreakers but that is a diffrent beast.

- - - Updated - - -

Tauren are big bad ass cow men worgen are big badass nature magic infused wolfmen.

[G3istly]

Because Sargeras doesn't have access to Azeroth (yet). However, one of the greatest threats we've ever encountered was a Human. Also, for anyone saying "Elf", you are so wrong it's pitiful. So far, all we've seen of the Elves is that they're greedy morons who have zero self-control. They're about as much of a threat as a leaf in the wind.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Source on worgen height? That's not somthing that can change it's based on the ingame model. Your telling me worgen are only slightly taller than humans? Look with your own eyes.

game models are not reflective of lore, tauren have been shrunk down to fit through doorways for example.

Those average worgen made that massive jump using only their leg mussels on a single jump.

A worgen in full plate can move as fast as a horse. Meaning it's muscles are just as good if not better than tauren.

Tauren had plainsrunning at one point. You're trying to make worgen out to be these roided giants. They are obviously not stronger than a tauren, no matter how many times you try to repeat this.

Also despite that ancient concept pic you linked (ironic) normal tauren don't really fight with their firsts or fist weapons their are runebreakers but that is a diffrent beast.

nothing stops a random tauren from punching you in the face or stomping the ground.

Tauren are big bad ass cow men worgen are big badass nature magic infused wolfmen.

magic infused wolfmen who still are met with equal force by both orcs and forsaken in silverpine.

maybe you should tweet at blizzard and ask them if a worgen is physically stronger than a tauren.

[Ilikegreenfire]

game models are not reflective of lore, tauren have been shrunk down to fit through doorways for example.






Tauren had plainsrunning at one point. You're trying to make worgen out to be these roided giants. They are obviously not stronger than a tauren, no matter how many times you try to repeat this.




nothing stops a random tauren from punching you in the face or stomping the ground.




magic infused wolfmen who still are met with equal force by both orcs and forsaken in silverpine.

maybe you should tweet at blizzard and ask them if a worgen is physically stronger than a tauren.

"In the case of male worgen, 6'10" is at the top of their hunch when slouched, at their scalp, they are 6'4". 8'1" is when they stand up straight during the apex of the /kiss animation."

Planesrunning was removed for a reason, it was a dumb and now noncannon idea, removed in the first wave of racial overhauls. so ya they can't match the worgen

ya a tauren can puch you in the face but that art he was linking was probably concept art for a runemaster, far from a normal tauren


ah ha i found it yes it was, it just lacked the actual runes for some reason.

The forsaken had actual weapons, poison, diseases, curses, magic, logistical support, ect.

A forsaken fighting without poison to even out the field is like a goblin fighting without bombs.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok did they actually plagiarize Samwise's art? that's fucked up

[Friendlyimmolation]

Planesrunning was removed for a reason, it was a dumb and now noncannon idea, removed in the first wave of racial overhauls. so ya they can't match the worgen

hold your horses on trying to make up things. It was removed because the way it worked was awful, and it would trigger randomly, not because it was non canon it was running wild with vanilla coding. The worgen could probably run away from a tauren and not get caught I'll give them that.

ya a tauren can puch you in the face but that art he was linking was probably concept art for a runemaster, far from a normal tauren

getting punched from a person who can rip a tree out of the ground and beat you with it is going to kill you / hurt you, rune master or not.

The forsaken had actual weapons, poison, diseases, curses, magic, logistical support, ect.

A forsaken fighting without poison to even out the field is like a goblin fighting without bombs.

So the worgen are unbeatable unless their enemy remembers to put on armor and use a weapon? Is that the argument now?

[Ilikegreenfire]

hold your horses on trying to make up things. It was removed because the way it worked was awful, and it would trigger randomly, not because it was non canon it was running wild with vanilla coding. The worgen could probably run away from a tauren and not get caught I'll give them that.



getting punched from a person who can rip a tree out of the ground and beat you with it is going to kill you / hurt you, rune master or not.




So the worgen are unbeatable unless their enemy remembers to put on armor and use a weapon? Is that the argument now?

It was removed and never mentioned again ergo its non cannon now. They figured out running wild, they could easily put it back in, they haven't because they realized it was a dumb idea for a cow man to move a horse speed on two legs.

Ya getting punched by an average tauren will hurt, getting punched by something that can move at a horse gallop in full plate armor will hurt too.

A worgen warrior in full plate with a 2 hander sword is going to wipe the floor with any horde foot troop other than an Orc or Tauren in similar gear, in silverpine iirc they were largely in cloth/leather with just their claws. It will be in similar strength to both but be far quicker.

[Friendlyimmolation]

It was removed and never mentioned again ergo its non cannon now. They figured out running wild, they could easily put it back in, they haven't because they realized it was a dumb idea for a cow man to move a horse speed on two legs.

or because a mount was already added in, and tauren no longer need it. Nothing shows that Tauren, being the literal nomadic hunting race, would not be able to run on its hooves for long distances, or have plainsrunners

A worgen warrior in full plate with a 2 hander sword is going to wipe the floor with any horde foot troop other than an Orc or Tauren in similar gear, in silverpine iirc they were largely in cloth/leather with just their claws. It will be in similar strength to both but be far quicker.

the worgen in question are wearing mail, and using their claws. Any strength advantage they have over the forsaken seems to be rendered null by their inability to remember weapons exist. As for quicker, probably quicker than the average forsaken, orcs and tauren are both very springy in their own right. Anyone that assumes you are slow because you have muscles won't be alive long enough to realize their mistake.

Tldr, still not enough evidence out there to say worgen are stronger than Orcs or tauren.

[Aquamonkey]

It was removed and never mentioned again ergo its non cannon now. They figured out running wild, they could easily put it back in, they haven't because they realized it was a dumb idea for a cow man to move a horse speed on two legs.

Running Wild is fundamentally different from what Plainsrunning was. Running Wild functions exactly the same as a mount, just with a unique animation. Plainsrunning wasn't removed because they thought it was dumb. They removed it because it didn't work properly and tauren players would be without a functional mount. What's funny is that the 1.1.0 patch notes actually mention Plainsrunning.

EDIT: Also, the WoW manual says that tauren resort to their plainsrunning ability because they're too big to ride animals.

[Clone]

Source on worgen height? That's not somthing that can change it's based on the ingame model. Your telling me worgen are only slightly taller than humans? Look with your own eyes.

Launching yourself off of a verticle surface and actuially getting distance instead of simply plumiting to the ground is diffrent than a running jump off a raised surface, or even gripping the edge.

Those average worgen made that massive jump using only their leg mussels on a single jump.

Cloeset thing you can experience to how hard that would be would to try and jump off of a vertical rockwall and see how far you can get.

A worgen in full plate can move as fast as a horse. Meaning it's muscles are just as good if not better than tauren.

Also despite that ancient concept pic you linked (ironic) normal tauren don't really fight with their fists or fist weapons their are runebreakers but that is a diffrent beast.

- - - Updated - - -

Tauren are big bad ass cow men worgen are big badass nature magic infused wolfmen.

"In the case of male worgen, 6'10" is at the top of their hunch when slouched, at their scalp, they are 6'4". 8'1" is when they stand up straight during the apex of the /kiss animation."

Planesrunning was removed for a reason, it was a dumb and now noncannon idea, removed in the first wave of racial overhauls. so ya they can't match the worgen

ya a tauren can puch you in the face but that art he was linking was probably concept art for a runemaster, far from a normal tauren


ah ha i found it yes it was, it just lacked the actual runes for some reason.

The forsaken had actual weapons, poison, diseases, curses, magic, logistical support, ect.

A forsaken fighting without poison to even out the field is like a goblin fighting without bombs.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok did they actually plagiarize Samwise's art? that's fucked up

It was removed and never mentioned again ergo its non cannon now. They figured out running wild, they could easily put it back in, they haven't because they realized it was a dumb idea for a cow man to move a horse speed on two legs.

Ya getting punched by an average tauren will hurt, getting punched by something that can move at a horse gallop in full plate armor will hurt too.

A worgen warrior in full plate with a 2 hander sword is going to wipe the floor with any horde foot troop other than an Orc or Tauren in similar gear, in silverpine iirc they were largely in cloth/leather with just their claws. It will be in similar strength to both but be far quicker.

Yes, that's exactly what I am telling you. Ten inches is not "slightly" taller. And stating that they are taller at the apex of their kiss animation is just grasping at straws.

And you still don't get how physics work. The higher up on a vertical surface I jump off from, the further I will propel, not because I have super leg muscles but because more time passes for me to travel before hitting ground. Your example of them leaping off a church very far is the same principle.

A worgen in full plate moves as fast as a horse by running on all fours. Taurens had plainsrunning and the only reason it's not in game now is because they couldn't get the technology to work 12 years ago. Know your history. The artists' initial concept speaks clearly what taurens are capable of. You keep mentioning directional speed like it's an advantage in a fight. If that's the case then why isn't Usain Bolt winning MMA titles?

Not to mention taurens can warstomp to stun people, an act that requires physical assault to accomplish for all other races. A tauren can generate a force so great, that it can travel through the earth and lose energy during the transfer of power, and still manage to stun someone. Worgens may or may not have leg muscles on the level of a horse, I don't really care. I know taurens have ability to generate more force than a horse ever could. Your average worgen isn't going to be wiping the floor with Horde soldiers. In badlands orcs were punching out dragons. When Doomhammer first met trolls he noted that they are bigger and faster than orcs, and can jump onto tree branches in a single bound. And we have taurens performing warstomp.

I also don't give a fuck what class that tauren is in the concept art. It's a tauren wrecking a mech.

Tauren are big bad ass cow men worgen are big badass nature magic infused wolfmen.

This statement shows your bias. You would skew the argument in your favor by comparing taurens to cows and worgens to wolves, knowing that the former is domesticated and the latter is wild. It's as idiotic as comparing taurens to wild bulls while equating worgens to domesticated dogs. We all know that neither the tauren nor worgen are inspired by domesticated animals, so let's act like it. You also ignore that taurens have been flesh shaped by the mogul to be stronger, something that I have brought up before.