London Bridge incident: a van hits pedestrians, says BBC

[primalmatter]

Not everyone who does not have the bravery to start a rebellion against an oppressive regime is a coward. It is pretty insulting to call a man that does not want to do so in order to protect his children one.

If allowing your children to live in chains is bravery I envy the coward. They are ruled by consent all people are. You can make any excuse you wish. He either agrees with how hes treated of is to afraid to demand it be changed.

Everyone gets the government they deserve.

[Belize]

His first response to the attack was to push his agenda. That response has only gotten stronger since he got some sleep. Sad.

I heard he retweeted Drudge Report...

Is that... is that true. I don't have the heart to confirm myself.

[Acidbaron]

Barbarians through the gates. Now honestly, if you start with that loaded a word, how can we even discuss?

The terrorists were muslims. Not denying this.

Islam is the problem. This i am denying. Sure, there are elements to islam specifically and religion as a whole which can be used as justification for terrorism, but imo it's not the main problem.

And as soon as i don't see it that way, your whole argument shambels.

And it doesn't even make sense, as most of the victims are muslims themselves. How can this be a war of islam against other religions, when the vast majority of the victims are muslims?


And you're projecting too much of your stereotype leftist on me. Crack down on them. Deport them much earlier and full surveillance of the law. We have the tools, most of the time its the inefficiency of the bureaucracy like in germany, where the terrorist should've been deported a long time ago, but wasn't because of some missing papers (and no, he didn't loose them, the government weren't producing them). As i said: Crack down on them with the full force of the law.

The only thing i don't want is specific rules for specific religions, because that is not only contrary to the western values i strongly believe in, but it is in my point of view also contract-productive.

You are arguing with a person who thinks europe is full of lefties in power and has yet after 2 years realize it's all centrum right in Europe, with a high focus on anti-terror strict immigration laws and cracking down on illegal mosques and hate preachers.

Best to ignore murican's.

[primalmatter]

Barbarians through the gates. Now honestly, if you start with that loaded a word, how can we even discuss?

The terrorists were muslims. Not denying this.

Islam is the problem. This i am denying. Sure, there are elements to islam specifically and religion as a whole which can be used as justification for terrorism, but imo it's not the main problem.

And as soon as i don't see it that way, your whole argument shambels.

And it doesn't even make sense, as most of the victims are muslims themselves. How can this be a war of islam against other religions, when the vast majority of the victims are muslims?


And you're projecting too much of your stereotype leftist on me. Crack down on them. Deport them much earlier and full surveillance of the law. We have the tools, most of the time its the inefficiency of the bureaucracy like in germany, where the terrorist should've been deported a long time ago, but wasn't because of some missing papers (and no, he didn't loose them, the government weren't producing them). As i said: Crack down on them with the full force of the law.

The only thing i don't want is specific rules for specific religions, because that is not only contrary to the western values i strongly believe in, but it is in my point of view also contract-productive.

It doesn't make sense because you live in a land of buzzwords.

Yes crack down and remove the people who come from violent cultures and war zones they bring their shit with them. Islam is a problem of course. It is a violent religion that breeds fanatics that actually follow their faith as it is written. It is how ever like complaining the drapes are burnt when the house is on fire.

It is a problem but its a deflection of the actual issue at hand here.


[Infracted]

[Kiri]

If allowing your children to live in chains is bravery I envy the coward. They are ruled by consent all people are. You can make any excuse you wish. He either agrees with how hes treated of is to afraid to demand it be changed.

Everyone gets the government they deserve.

They are ruled by force, not consent. It is literally the opposite.
As I said, it is not bravery to 'allow' it, but if the alternative is pointlessly dying and getting them and you killed and worse, it is not cowardice, either.

[dlhak]

In the last issue of Dabiq that I am aware of (a magazine that ISIS produces and distributes), they state, several times throughout the issue, that it IS about religion to them. They list one of their grievances as the crusader armies in the muslim lands, but then they mention, specifically, that even if our armies withdrew, they would still hate us, and want to fight us, because we do not belong to their faith.

The article in their magazine regarding this most clearly is titled "Why we hate you, and why we fight you". In ISIS's case, it sure seems like it is about religion first.

So you are quoting a "magazine" issued by a terrorist group now ? of course they will tell you it's about "their" religion to drive everybody into chaos, ISIS was created 5 years ago by Qatar supported by its allies, let me give you another hint; my country was occupied by France for 132 years, the french army killed 10 millions algerians since 1830, One millions and a half between 1954 and 1962 alone (during the war of independance) the french colonial government stripped Muslim Algerians of their basic rights, and gave jews equal rights to the European settlers, after 125 of occupation a war of independance broke, do you think it was driven by religion ? No ! it was the desire of freedom and patriotism ...

The people blowing themselves up and stabbing brits these days were brainwashed by groups that your governments have supported when they wanted to get rid of Gaddafi in Libya, it's easier to stick all of this on our religion than explain to your population that it's because of your greed. (your government's)

[Pannonian]

Stop straw manning.
I'm saying that breivik did not commit terror for his christian faith, he had Other motivations.
Therefore, why should Christians condemn him?
]
Ah yes, the bavarian catholic league.
Oh wait, no catholic league...

Does not make it about religion.



I want to stop terrorism, if that offends some Muslims so much they become terrorists, well, 5.56 works wonders on those too.

Ok, last time i try.

Breivik: Of course there are a religious motive in his actions. He was against muslims and wanted to hit the socialist partyas hard as possible to get them to deport mulsim for his country to stay christian. I thought that was common knowledge?

IRA: I never stated that, again what i said was what the picture of a terrorist was when i grew up. Not saying more than that. My argument was solely that terroism hasn't always been islamic.

the actual topic:

I can see your way, and i think this is what will happen. I really hope i'm wrong about this, but the way i see it right now we have a very small minority that causes problems, but by unduly escalating the conflict it could lead to much more troubles (And read my other posts: Go after them with the full force of the law, but don't make specific laws against a specific religion as this not only goes against our own values, but i think will lead to many more problems).

[Sliske]

What reasonable step would you take? Enlist? What have you done when the U.S. was hit with terror attacks?

Recognising the problem is my reasonable step - Men being radicalised by Sunni Islamic propaganda. Not blanketing an entire ideology in immunity from criticism would be another.

I don't do anything when the U.S. is hit by terror attacks, whats a guy in the UK going to do about a terrorist attack in the USA - change my profile picture? Type #PrayFor___? #IStandWith___?

[Shibito]

Stop straw manning.
I'm saying that breivik did not commit terror for his christian faith, he had Other motivations.
Therefore, why should Christians condemn him?
]
Ah yes, the bavarian catholic league.
Oh wait, no catholic league...

Does not make it about religion.



I want to stop terrorism, if that offends some Muslims so much they become terrorists, well, 5.56 works wonders on those too.

ABB was indeed not christian even tho lefties cling to that belief to feel better about themself and islam.

[Pannonian]

You are arguing with a person who thinks europe is full of lefties in power and has yet after 2 years realize it's all centrum right in Europe, with a high focus on anti-terror strict immigration laws and cracking down on illegal mosques and hate preachers.

Best to ignore murican's.

Sometimes i really do get the impression that europe is a shithole in the middle of a civil war according to some posters. It's always funny traveling to the states, and comparing things like infrastructure and the like...

[Mafic]

LoL .. WROOOOONG !

Let me give some explanations for you millenials ...

Once upon a time there were many happy dictators on the southern shore of the mediterranean sea, until the fall of the USSR where a wave of liberties blew itself on many ex-allies of the eastern block, people in these countries started asking for more freedom, but the dictators were unmovable, most of them were supported by the United States and Europe, except for some ancient evils "Saddam and Gaddafi"

One of the supported dictatorships was my country Algeria, it was a military regime, which found itself one day in a merciless battle against terrorists (same ideology as these days saudi brainwashed terrorists) they were slaughtering kids and pregnant women, they've put bombs in schools, mosques, cinemas, universities, streets, markets, hospitals .... they mutilated and raped young girls. Meanwhile the military regime was also merciless, my own father was a commander in the military, he told me they used to capture terrorists, took them to the desert set them on fire and let them run n the sands ... this may sound horrible, but these terrorist were worst and did worse.

One day Europe and the USA came and asked my country to stop killing terrorists or they would impose an embargo on us, they even had terrorists leaders protected under their roof and refused to capture them or let our lawyers bring them to justice.

Anyway, a corrupt leader installed itself in my country, Europe was happy, and the US was happier. he has forgiven all terrorists attrocities, gave them protection and money, and both the corrupt dictator and EU/US lived happily after ... untill these two went too far by removing other dictators who were giving a shit about human rights, but were at least keeping terrorists contained.

Europe and the US went even further and trained terrorists themselves to bring down those dictators.

What you see in Europe these days is what my country is enduring since 30 years, fear, these terrorists have killed more than 250 000 Muslims so far in my country alone. It's not about religion, it's about greed, sabotage and manipulation.

This is a good post. +1

It is important to remember countries have been fighting these extremists for years and do not tolerate them. But there are some European countries that don't understand the urgency of the situation or don't understand the consequences down the road.

[nacixems]

Muslim mayor of london is a coward for not calling this what it is. Trump is right.. apparently love and kindness is NOT working. how bout try, bullets that seemed to clean up 3 of them. move the rest out that dont conform send them to a country that has their core values of hate. easy peasy.

[Mafic]

You joking ? France Sweden Germany UK are the prime targets of immigration in Europe since decades. Where's the terrorism in Hungary/Poland/Slovakia ? Aka the countries who actually dont take anyone.

+1

Because those countries understand the situation and are doing the responsible thing.

[Pannonian]

ABB was indeed not christian even tho lefties cling to that belief to feel better about themself and islam.

he writes in his own manifesto:

The manifesto states its author is "100 percent Christian",[42] but he is not "excessively religious";[42] "I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person, as that would be a lie"; and considers himself a "cultural Christian" and a "modern-day crusader".[42][253] He calls religion a crutch and a source for drawing mental strength, and says "I've always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment". Regarding the term cultural Christian, which he says means preserving European culture, he notes, "It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy...)".[245][253] Furthermore, Breivik said "myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God."[253][254] Nevertheless, he said he planned to pray to God for help during his attacks.

So if you say all Muslims have to condemn each terror attack its only fair for "cultural Christians" to condemn his attack

[primalmatter]

They are ruled by force, not consent. It is literally the opposite.
As I said, it is not bravery to 'allow' it, but if the alternative is pointlessly dying and getting them and you killed and worse, it is not cowardice, either.

Ruled by force... What a laughable notion.

Do you know how a thousand men destroy a army of a hundred thousand?

They refuse to plant their crops.

Yes if you never risk anything and live in fear you will likely leave nothing worth anything behind.

Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

[Kiri]

Muslim mayor of london is a coward for not calling this what it is. Trump is right.. apparently love and kindness is NOT working. how bout try, bullets that seemed to clean up 3 of them. move the rest out that dont conform send them to a country that has their core values of hate. easy peasy.

What is your definition of 'conform'?

Ruled by force... What a laughable notion.

Do you know how a thousand men destroy a army of a hundred thousand?

They refuse to plant their crops.

Yes if you never risk anything and live in fear you will likely leave nothing worth anything behind.

Yes, and likely a lot of them will die for that. Again, it is easy to say that people should risk their lives, when one has no risk of their own.

[primalmatter]

Sometimes i really do get the impression that europe is a shithole in the middle of a civil war according to some posters. It's always funny traveling to the states, and comparing things like infrastructure and the like...

Its like one of the two can go to a theater and not worry hundred of them will be killed its crazy.

[nacixems]

What is your definition of 'conform'?

being as accecpting of other life styles/religion as the country they live in. not wanting to kill those who live in the country they themselves live in.

[Pannonian]

Its like one of the two can go to a theater and not worry hundred of them will be killed its crazy.

Yeah, heard about the batman shooting. That was tragic

[Keosen]

Tawhidi knows whats up.



Islam does not belong in the west.

Ah yeah, the good old saying about civilised west and savages from the east.
Love it, delusion at its peak.