London Bridge incident: a van hits pedestrians, says BBC

[Nigel Tufnel]

It shouldn't have to be repeated every time there's a terror attack, but we don't tolerate religion-bashing, religious discussion, nor hate speech on these forums. If you can't participate without engaging in such, don't participate.

I'm really not trying to be inflammatory - but how can you participate in this discussion without engaging in a wider debate about motives?

All you'd be left with is "I'm sorry for the victims & their families" type comments. Which are completely valid and much needed but only one part of it.

Theresa May said today:

While we have made significant progress in recent years, there is to be frank, far too much tolerance of extremism in our country. So we need to become far more robust in identifying it and stamping it out across the public sector and across society. That will require some difficult and often embarrassing conversations, but the whole of our country needs to come together to take on this extremism, and we need to live out lives not in series of separated and segregated communities, but as one truly United Kingdom.

And, much as I hate to say it, I agree with her.

If you want to curtail widespread bigotry and condemnation of all muslims, then a discussion needs to be had about Wahabi and Salafi-inspired terrorism; its roots, its funding, its pervasive spread etc.

I appreciate you may not think this forum is the appropriate place to have this discussion but all I'm saying is that you may as well just delete all threads relating to events of this sort.

[Blue Minuteman]

Yet another incident that's going to lead to new bouts of Islamophobia.

Exactly like Putin wants.

[Sharein]

Yet another incident that's going to lead to new bouts of Islamophobia.

Because that is the worst thing that can happen, right?

Nevermind the dead children.

[hellhamster]

Yet another incident that's going to lead to new bouts of Islamophobia.

People died in that "incident". People are a lot more afraid to walk the streets after that "incident". People are going to talk about that "incident".

Who gives a fuck about a rise of Islamophobia when there's a terror attack every month on your soil.

[igualitarist]

Is the west becoming islamophobic, or is the islam "westphobic" ?

[hellhamster]

There's no "worst" thing. There's a bunch of things that are all really, really bad. Islamophobia is one of them, because, even if we ignore morality for a second, all you're doing is driving more moderates to terrorism out of desperation. Which is a well-documented occurrence that people like you hand wave away.



You don't give a flying fuck about the dead children. You're a reactionary; the dead children matter to you insofar that you can hoist them up to peddle your hate.

Are you psychotic? There's people brutally murdered by hate groups and you go around afraid what we might think about those hate groups? The fuck.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Yet another incident that's going to lead to new bouts of Islamophobia.

You see - here's a prime example.

Instead of a constructive conversation about what Wahabi/Salafi-inspired terrorism actually is you have knee-jerk, emotional response that doesn't contribute anything.

Dude - there are many people in the world who have sufficient EQ not to brand all Muslims as terrorists but equally want a rational debate about the reasons why my mate in St Guys was up all last night treating trauma victims.

[Xandrigity]

Listen something on a personal level is going to happen to some folks before it's just not their new normal.
Everyone has their own breaking point.

[Granyala]

Is the west becoming islamophobic, or is the islam "westphobic" ?

Probably both. The west has done a lot of shit in the east, so hate is understandable to some degree.
The east starts doing shit in the west, so a rise of hate is also human nature.

Axel is right though: over the top hostility towards Muslims will cause them to "stick together" even further, integrate even less and make them more vulnerable to be radicalized.

[Freighter]

You should give a fuck, because, and I'm going to make this nice and big for you:

Islamophobia literally leads to more terrorism.

That's why you should give a fuck.

Where's the islamic terrorism in South Korea then?

[hellhamster]

Reread what I post, instead of fabricating your shitty strawman.

You should also read the post above where I use a nice big font to tell you why Islamophobia should matter to you.

Literally your train of thought:

"People are afraid of islamist attacks, but we should be more afraid about the impact of said fear instead because others might not like it and blow us to pieces".

If that's not insane, I don't know what is.

[Granyala]

Where's the islamic terrorism in South Korea then?

Can't fight on all fronts at the same time, honey.
Once the west has been conquered, they can look towards the far east. *chuckles*

[mandatory humor tag]

[Granyala]

Literally your train of thought:

"People are afraid of islamist attacks, but we should be more afraid about the impact of said fear instead because others might not like it and blow us to pieces".

If that's not insane, I don't know what is.

A certain degree of fear is understandable and completely normal.
We must make sure not to let said fear turn to hate and hostility though. Not every Muslim is a terrorist.

[hellhamster]

There's no rational debate to have. Islamic extremists aren't Muslims, by any definition. Over and over again, from people who actually study middle eastern culture (i.e., not people like Dawkins or Harris), from people who actually profile extremists, there's a common thread: either they're not actually religious, or desperate.

Here's how a "rational" conversation about the topic goes:

Person A: Is religion evil?
Person B: No. Fundamentalism is evil. Religious fundamentalism is no more or less evil than secular fundamentalism or, in fact, any fundamentalism.
Person A: Agreed.

So take your "rational debate" nonsense and shove it.

"These people who believe but are nice guys are true muslims, but those other guys who believe but are cunts about it and and kill people are fakes".

Gotcha.

[Freighter]

Islamic extremists aren't Muslims, by any definition.

Do you actually believe what you're posting? I can't imagine that you do.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Empty to words, coming from her, honestly. She could start by not selling weapons to the Saudis...

Yes - I agree 100%, but we've been selling weapons to the Saudis for decades. So, maybe it's time to stop? Let's put pressure on them.

This is the debate that needs to be had without fear of one side being called "Islamophobes" and the other side being called "terrorist-sympathisers" or whatever.

[Freighter]

This species is doomed.

It's doomed because I asked a question?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes - I agree 100%, but we've been selling weapons to the Saudis for decades. So, maybe it's time to stop? Let's put pressure on them.

This is the debate that needs to be had without fear of one side being called "Islamophobes" and the other side being called "terrorist-sympathisers" or whatever.

Who cares if you're called an islamophobe? What it means is that you dislike or hate islam. If it conflicts with your values, of course you dislike or hate it.

[hellhamster]

A certain degree of fear is understandable and completely normal.
We must make sure not to let said fear turn to hate and hostility though. Not every Muslim is a terrorist.

That's not even what I said, I'm saying that people around here like Axelhander are more afraid and angry about the repercussions of Islamophobia by the average populace than the actual terror acts themselves.

[Granyala]

Person A: Is religion evil?
Person B: No. Fundamentalism is evil.

Hate to break it to you, but if you take your religion seriously, like .. life and death seriously, you will be a fundamentalist.
If a doctrine states that the worth of a non believer is less than that of a believer and one can do with the non believer as one sees fit, then yes: that doctrine should be considered dangerous and evil.

[draynay]

It's doomed because I asked a question?

Jeez, how doomed do we have to be before you stop asking questions!?