Confused by conflicing stat prio's

[bunglehaze]

Just wondering if there is a guide that I am missing on how to gear my frost DK for secondaries as icy veins and noxxic are both different on suggestions. I main a spriest so use howtopriest for that info but is there something similar that accurately shows results of theorycraft and sims?

So far I seem to be going round in circles wondering what the break points for haste and crit are, if mastery or versa is now worth stacking as I am at 30% crit, 25-28% haste depending on gems.

tia

[Hctaz]

There's not really anything to make all of this less confusing. Secondary stat values change drastically based on what gear you have for frost dks. After the rough "breakpoints" that Icy Veins shows you the values get really wonky. They aren't breakpoints by old standards either. Previously there were certain values of stats you needed to basically function properly like hit/expertise or values of haste that provided you with extra ticks on your dots. Like... every 4800 haste rating would give you another tick on your dot but any less than that you wouldn't see any value from it. As is, these values are just where crit and haste start to drop off.

If you want my advice: Choose whatever has the highest value (item level/sockets) that don't knock you too far off from where crit and haste are most valuable and then sim yourself to see what gems and enchants you should be using. Strength is such a huge factor in our dps as a frost dk that it's king to any secondary stats. You will most likely be changing all of your secondary stat gems and enchants with every new upgrade so don't be discouraged.

[bunglehaze]

Thanks, yes it all seems a little odd as I am used to having pretty rigid 'requirements' for other toons to perform close to optimal. At least with traditional breakpoints you know to aim for 30% haste to get GCD timings down, then secondary A to a point where B takes over. I am still gearing this toon so everything is a strength upgrade at least.

[defnotalizardperson]

First off: stop using Noxxic. For literally anything. Stop.

Second: as Hctaz said, there are no breakpoints for Frost DKs; generally, strength is king, and I find that whatever has the highest ilvl tends to sim the best even for rings and necks. The only thing you can really do for more precision is to sim your character for every new piece you get.

If it's an alt, though, I suggest you just equip the highest ilvl pieces you have, and if you have 2 pieces of the same ilvl and really care that much, you can sim yourself with each piece and see which is better. I've been using Raidbots + Simulationcraft addon for that.

You can also check out the DK Discord, they have an FAQ and some relic and trinket charts in the Resources section: http://discord.gg/hq6HwSB

[Spiffums]

I think there are very few classes where stacking 1 stat works. I know Aff Locks stack mastery and most of the tanks need 30% base haste to make things go smooth. And with the RNG randomness of gear it's probably a good thing.

[Tehr]

First off: stop using Noxxic. For literally anything. Stop.

Ya for real, it's a shame people even use that website, it has zero vetting and if anything is ever actually correct, it's because they cared enough to copy-paste the data from a more reliable/trustworthy source.

[bunglehaze]

First off: stop using Noxxic. For literally anything. Stop.

Second: as Hctaz said, there are no breakpoints for Frost DKs; generally, strength is king, and I find that whatever has the highest ilvl tends to sim the best even for rings and necks. The only thing you can really do for more precision is to sim your character for every new piece you get.

If it's an alt, though, I suggest you just equip the highest ilvl pieces you have, and if you have 2 pieces of the same ilvl and really care that much, you can sim yourself with each piece and see which is better. I've been using Raidbots + Simulationcraft addon for that.

You can also check out the DK Discord, they have an FAQ and some relic and trinket charts in the Resources section: http://discord.gg/hq6HwSB

In all fairness I don't really pay any attention to it but do use it as a secondary source of info to look and see how if and why it differs to others. I tend to use mmo-champ for community info and this is pretty good as a priest as there's a lot of stuff listed here carried over from howtopriest. Unfortunately for DK's there's less immediately available information or guide posts.

If I get more into playing my DK again I may compile a post as I find details, other than levelling this toon up it's been pretty much unloved since WoTLK though

[Vaerys]

In all fairness I don't really pay any attention to it but do use it as a secondary source of info to look and see how if and why it differs to others. I tend to use mmo-champ for community info and this is pretty good as a priest as there's a lot of stuff listed here carried over from howtopriest. Unfortunately for DK's there's less immediately available information or guide posts.

If I get more into playing my DK again I may compile a post as I find details, other than levelling this toon up it's been pretty much unloved since WoTLK though

First I recommend trying out Breath of Sindragosa and decide if that's a play style you are willing to commit to. It's a pretty huge break from the way DKs used to play, and most either love it or hate it.

[Tehr]

I highly recommend getting on the DK Discord and looking in the #resources tab for some good data and guides.

[Sulika]

First off: stop using Noxxic. For literally anything. Stop.

Just to give an idea of how bad Noxxic is.

Their Unholy guide manages to have the wrong talents in four of the six damage talent rank slots, its basically no more accurate than just selecting talents at random.
The Unholy stat priorities are wrong, Mastery, the best stat for Unholy is listed as third in priority.
They list the wrong gems for Unholy and the wrong ring enchants (this comes down to not getting the stat priorities right).
They list the wrong enchants for Unholy (not even mentioning the BiS neck enchant in their top three).
The guide hasn't been updated for the change in wounds burst for Apocalypse, still suggesting you wait for 7+ wounds before using it.
Their suggested artifact weapon doesn't even have the new traits listed.

It's actually pretty impressive how much they managed to get wrong. The most charitable thing you could say about it is that the guide is terribly out of date which might be forgivable if they hadn't stuck a 7.2 version number on it.

As for Frost, I guess how good their guide is can basically be summed up by saying they don't recommend using Breath of Sindragosa as a talent choice.

So yeah, avoid Noxxic.

[bunglehaze]

First I recommend trying out Breath of Sindragosa and decide if that's a play style you are willing to commit to. It's a pretty huge break from the way DKs used to play, and most either love it or hate it.

That's the build I have been using to be honest. I am still gearing and getting used to it but it seems to work OK for me other than running out of resources earlier than I would like.

I highly recommend getting on the DK Discord and looking in the #resources tab for some good data and guides.

I got the link to the DK Discord yesterday and joined. It was that kind of info I was looking for on MMO-C to begin with.

Just to give an idea of how bad Noxxic is.

Their Unholy guide manages to have the wrong talents in four of the six damage talent rank slots, its basically no more accurate than just selecting talents at random.
The Unholy stat priorities are wrong, Mastery, the best stat for Unholy is listed as third in priority.
They list the wrong gems for Unholy and the wrong ring enchants (this comes down to not getting the stat priorities right).
They list the wrong enchants for Unholy (not even mentioning the BiS neck enchant in their top three).
The guide hasn't been updated for the change in wounds burst for Apocalypse, still suggesting you wait for 7+ wounds before using it.
Their suggested artifact weapon doesn't even have the new traits listed.

It's actually pretty impressive how much they managed to get wrong. The most charitable thing you could say about it is that the guide is terribly out of date which might be forgivable if they hadn't stuck a 7.2 version number on it.

As for Frost, I guess how good their guide is can basically be summed up by saying they don't recommend using Breath of Sindragosa as a talent choice.

So yeah, avoid Noxxic.

Seems like a running theme It's always been the same with priests suggesting avoid them too.

[Kaver]

I am very curious of who writes the guides on Noxxic. There must be a lot of good quality grass involved. It is just crazy how incorrect they are. They could atleast copy the information from icy-veins or wowhead.

[xontrps]

i can recommand 25% crit 20% haste 2% versa and rest mastery. when you go myth+ stack master higher than haste. but it goes over everything when you play dk cause strenght is so op.

[Xlink]

Strength is almost always going to be your highest stat weight. Unless you are getting down to VERY low levels of crit/haste/mastery, ALWAYS go for highest item level. My DK only has 14% haste, and it plays perfectly fine.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../11#metric=dps

[Khain]

20% haste 25-30% crit then mastery.

[bunglehaze]

I think I need to rejig my gems in that case. ilvl 890 and 32% crit, 24% haste, 31% mastery and 1% versa with a little avoidance