Best stats for 7.2.5 for Havoc?

[Tehterokkar]

at the start of legion crit versatility gear was the thing. it later turned out to be crit/mastery sometimes around ToV. i'm fairly sure haste will trump mastery, unless t20 bonuses will cap our fury a lot. question might be, if versatility is better than mastery. Keep in mind, mastery pretty much ONLY boosts cs and annihilate. Taking the mastery out of CB might just halve the dps per point of mastery ratio (unless ofc someone has already done the math and i'm speaking out of my ass).

You went Crit/Vers because of Bloodlet. Mastery does nothing for GT/Bloodlet damage.

[Artemol]

Haste also lets you spend fury a lot quicker, which benefits Delusions of Grandeur. Lets you get in more BD/DS, which hits very hard (especially with the new tier) and helps with CB uptime through Chaos Theory.

Oh and fiy the new ring sucks.

On a side note a lot of damage being shifted towards BD/DS, which doesn't do chaos damage pushes mastery down as well.

The new ring is the new BIS, but W/E

[KingBat]

Haste wouldn't jump up till you have 2pc and cloak? Guessing

[Aeopossible]

The new ring is the new BIS, but W/E

Stop spreading misinformation. Take 5 min and head to the DH discord, and you'll see that the sims show that the new ring is actually pretty bad. Cloak/DoG is the best combo (with DoG technically being BiS overall after the cloak nerf).

[Deleted]

How much mastery is considered good now? I've been gone since NH launched only cleared heroic like once the first or second week i think.

I have between 37% to 44% depending on legendary gear setup while keeping 47%+ crit, 12% haste that's 903-905 ilvl

To be fair I have mostly crit/mastery bits outside of some tier

I think the really high ilvl dhs probably have even more mastery right now

[Deleted]

Stop spreading misinformation. Take 5 min and head to the DH discord, and you'll see that the sims show that the new ring is actually pretty bad. Cloak/DoG is the best combo (with DoG technically being BiS overall after the cloak nerf).

The Ring is better in aoe/cleave situation where use bloodlet can make a difference. Maybe will be bis for some boss or instance.

[InkarnateKT]

haste is still useless. With the new Tier + the new Ring. You'll never be fury starved.

as it is on the PTR atm. I'm still running Crit-Mastery-Haste/Versa. with about 9% Haste.

I've never gone fury starved throughout the entire testing, on every boss.

Don't sleep on haste. I expect we will want between 12-15% haste.

Set bonuses are too good as is so don't rely on that amount of fury. They will both be nerfed, likely both will be ~halved.

[Artemol]

Stop spreading misinformation. Take 5 min and head to the DH discord, and you'll see that the sims show that the new ring is actually pretty bad. Cloak/DoG is the best combo (with DoG technically being BiS overall after the cloak nerf).

Do w/e u want. You'll see how shit the cloak is.
It has about 6-7% uptime which is extremly shit. For it to be better than the Ring, the cloak needs to have 10%+ Uptime.

- - - Updated - - -

Stop spreading misinformation. Take 5 min and head to the DH discord, and you'll see that the sims show that the new ring is actually pretty bad. Cloak/DoG is the best combo (with DoG technically being BiS overall after the cloak nerf).

Those sims are based on 100 Iterations.

[Kib]

Do w/e u want. You'll see how shit the cloak is.
It has about 6-7% uptime which is extremly shit. For it to be better than the Ring, the cloak needs to have 10%+ Uptime.

- - - Updated - - -



Those sims are based on 100 Iterations.

The stacked trinket sims is 100 iterations, not the legendary one... I would know i made them

and also, while were here... You seem to forget that the ring you're referring to has BiS has 30% less stats than items at the same item level, that alone seeing how strong secondaries are makes the ring pretty useless it itself. But feel free to provide any tangible data to back your claims, I'm all ears.

[Deleted]

Those sims are based on 100 Iterations.

The trinket ones yes, not the legendary ones. Besides, why would the new ring even be good? 10% more damage on chaos strike isnt even amazing, rather have that 8% higher uptime on chaos blades.

[Deleted]

Do w/e u want. You'll see how shit the cloak is.
It has about 6-7% uptime which is extremly shit. For it to be better than the Ring, the cloak needs to have 10%+ Uptime.

That's based on what? Feelings?

The Ring is better in aoe/cleave situation where use bloodlet can make a difference. Maybe will be bis for some boss or instance.

Since the ring and bloodlet aren't really strong in the first place and the bracers got nerfed as well it's probably not worth it to give up two legendaries just to get bloodlet and try to make it work - even in perfect scenarios.
The bracers are basically on the same power level as they were in the beginning of nighthold (slightly better on ST slightly worse gain through cleave), but everything else got way stronger. I like bloodlet and hope we can make it work one way or another, but based on the current information I doubt it.

[malgor21]

That's based on what? Feelings?



Since the ring and bloodlet aren't really strong in the first place and the bracers got nerfed as well it's probably not worth it to give up two legendaries just to get bloodlet and try to make it work - even in perfect scenarios.
The bracers are basically on the same power level as they were in the beginning of nighthold (slightly better on ST slightly worse gain through cleave), but everything else got way stronger. I like bloodlet and hope we can make it work one way or another, but based on the current information I doubt it.

Apart from ring giving less stats, chaos strike/annihilation is less than 45% of your damage usually so chaos cleave would add 4.5% of the damage.

With Hero/BL and meta you get around 7 Deathsweeps and 10 Blade dance during 2 min. That's an approximate 10 sec of Chaos blades every 2 min. That's more or less over 50% buff of the chaos blades auto attack dmg plus a 2.5% (10sec/2min*30%) additional dmg (which is an understatement as there is higher probability chaos blades will occur during meta which is a bigger chance of your damage). Chaos blades autos are 3-4% of ur overall dmg so think of an extra 2% from there. Also we haven't accounted for the extra fury during that time and even if you don't that's over 4.5% buff with just 9% haste.

Cloak will scale with haste and overall damage will also due to blade dance being by far the more hard hitting ability which even more favors the cloak/DoG.

[Deix-EU]

Thing about haste is you will need to stack a LOT of haste , for it to actually start making any meaningful changes to the BD cd. And if you stack that much haste, it's gonna be a DPS loss due the lack of other secondary stats. The gains are minimal on smaller values.

Of course all of this is rough estimations on my part , and former someone wants to whip out some math and prove/disprove I welcome it with open arms.

- - - Updated - - -



Read above.

Of course, but some didn't even believe it would come as near as 2nd best stat. This does not mean Haste is OP, this means that we fel in other stats and gains a bit more benefits from haste in return for a better pound. We won't stack haste to mad, as usual there will be balance between stats but haste won't be as low as now (not like many other classes) above 12%~, .

[lazzek]

There is so much misinformation and just pure speculation in this thread it is amazing.
Just sim this results yourself if you don't believe the results people are explaining that have simed this.

Crit > Haste > Agi = Vers > Mastery

These are the results that sims are currently giving. As a note crit is ahead of the rest of the pack by a good margin.
Mastery has fallen very significantly which has come from Chaos Blades losing its scaling factor and now just providing a flat increase.
This also isn't a case of haste becoming that much better, it is just that mastery has lost a significant amount of value and moved down the list.

When it comes to the new legendary ring it is sadly just not up to par with our other legendaries when it comes to single target. With mastery losing a lot of its value stacking mastery won't really be a thing any more which really hurts the option of First_Blood + Chaos Cleave and the gain of Bloodlet+First_Blood just doesn't warrant the loss of stats on a ring slot when we have other very strong legendary options.

When it comes to heavy cleave / aoe fights however from my current sims the new ring does sim very well in combination with bloodlet + Mo'arg and I believe will be a viable option for these cases.

You can check the demon hunter discord for much more information and sim results.

[HeiAggra]

With haste being more important again i can see BTI being even more important now. that damm trinket will be OP!
So you guys think it will be the BIS legs the DoG and Cloak?
I see many ppl saying the new ring is not as strong but a free talent and use CC for 10% on CS i bealive it will be strong singe you will have more ST damage and also cleave.
FB talent also improves the ST damage.

[Deleted]

So if mastery gets much worse once the patch hits and we don't have pieces to switch out...
Will demonic be a thing in the meantime, as stat weight for it won't change?

[Hex1k]

Simc is not the best way to calculate your real stat weight.
Main problem is dynamic fights. You will never fight with bosses in the same conditions, like Simc has. So your stat weight will dynamically change in fight. It depends on your dynamic ping, your dynamic clicking buttons with spells etc.
But Simc is very nice calculator for avarage stat weights for you current stats values.

What about CB changes... Now you may try to get 30% mastery (old value of mastery = 30% to be equal with new CB) about 50% crit for spamming CS (50% crit is just statistically calculated value, not simulated) and as much haste, as you can.

I rly dont know about versality. This stat is very doubtful.
Why we should get as much haste as we can after crit and mastery cap? Haste decreases CD of BD and increases count of melee hits per minute -> increase resourse generation by two positions: using DB with new tier and autoattacks.

So, in summary: the best stat values in 7.2.5 is 50% crit > 30% mastery > haste > vers ?= agi.

[Deleted]

So if mastery gets much worse once the patch hits and we don't have pieces to switch out...
Will demonic be a thing in the meantime, as stat weight for it won't change?

It's not a big problem if you are running Chaos Claeve. I've done some simulations on PTR and with Chaos Cleave, mastery is still ok. For me it's on par with haste.

Live Server (Chaos Cleave): Crit - 30,64 / Mastery - 29,96 / Haste - 23,11 / Agi - 21,34 / Versa - 20,46
PTR with same gear (Chaos Cleave): Crit - 32,05 / Haste - 23,88 / Mastery - 23,64 / Agi - 23,16 / Versa - 21,56
My gear: https://worldofwarcraft.com/de-de/ch...dmortem/nemata



With T20 and switching from Chaos Cleave to First Blood, mastery again looses a lot of its value, but at this time I should have enough items to switch out my mastery gear.

[Deleted]

well im getting this for my char: Crit > Agi > Vers > Haste > Mastery

sitting curently at 47%/33k/5%/13%/27%

looks like ilvl has a lot of value gained.

[Deleted]

It's kind of funny because it looks like there are 2 groups :

- Those who tells haste will be better than mastery
- Those who stay at the stats we're using live : crit and mait

So I guess haste and mastery will be really close to each other for the next patch. So what about having someting like : crit > haste = mastery ? Or even Crit > agi > haste = mastery ?

Anyway, I think the best thing to do while waiting 7.2.5 is to stack some stuff with crit haste, crit mastery, mastery haste, haste mastery in our bank and see what will be the real weight of our stat.

Also, did you guys tried ToS trinket on ptr ? Looks like Cinder is nice because of the amount of crit + proc, but what do you think about others ?


edit : english is not my native language, be nice