Return of the Lich King expansion leaked on reddit?

[Deleted]

"TBC wasn't a Legion expansion"
"Cataclysm wasn't a dragon expansion, it was a Cataclysm expansion, man"

Yeah, I sure see that you "know your lore".

I'm done with you, there's no talking to you, just wasted time.

If anything I consider cataclysm an "elements" expansion.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove.
Did you see much of the BURNING LEGION in BC? Besides a couple fel camps and the last patch?

[Matthias]

If anything I consider cataclysm an "elements" expansion.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove.
Did you see much of the BURNING LEGION in BC? Besides a couple fel camps and the last patch?

There is a clear Demon theme to the expansion. But once again the feeling of TBC was more of an expedition. WoTLK and Legion are about equivalent in terms of a threat assessment of an invading force.

[Deleted]

If anything I consider cataclysm an "elements" expansion.

The main theme was clearly "big dragon attacks the world". The intent was to bring the game back to the roots of fantasy games with a dragon antagonist. That's why it was so important for them to have Deathwing as the login screen.

Blackwing Descent with Nefarian and Onyxia as endbosses, plus a lot of dragon stuff in there. Twilight dragons and a story with the red dragons in Twilight Highlands, the dragonflights being involved in general, Caverns of Time with Murozond, Bastion of Twilight had dragons, Halfus Wyrmbreaker, Valiona and Theralion, Sinestra as a heroic only endboss. Grim Batol connected to dragons. Green dragons at Mount Hyjal. There are even dragons in the Skywall dungeon and raid, Drake of the North Wind was a drop from the dungeon, Drake of the South Wind from the raid. Stonecore had dragons, with a dragon mount drop in there, Deepholme had tons of dragons, also lorewise connected to Deathwing. Blackrock Caverns dungeon had dragons. Revamped Cataclysm zones like Badlands dealt with the story of the dragons. While Firelands had no dragons, the legendary staff in there was dragon-related, and it took you to the Nexus and had you interact with Kalec and Tarecgosa and other blue dragons. And then of course Dragon Soul and the fight against Deathwing, with all of the other aspects assisting us, tons of dragons in that raid. Oh and Wrathion and the legendary daggers questline involves a lot of dragons. So the first tier had dragon-related stuff in every raid, Firelands was related to dragons through the legendary and Dragon Soul was heavily dragon-focussed. Both legendaries in the expansion were connected to dragon lore. Almost all zones related to dragons and a lot of dungeons with dragons.

Maybe I even forgot some stuff, that's just at the top of my head. Really, do we have to deny that Cataclysm can be called a dragon-expansion? Sure the elements played a role in it too. Yeah, so did the Titan stuff in Wrath, but it's not wrong to call it an undead expansion, just cause it also had some Titan stuff.

Did you see much of the BURNING LEGION in BC? Besides a couple fel camps and the last patch?

Yes, we did. It was called THE BURNING CRUSADE. Why does this have to be argued? Should I go through this too? First raid Karazhan, connection to the Burning Legion because of Medivh who opened the Dark Portal and had Sargeras inside him. Satyr boss in there and Malchezaar, the Eredar prince, as the endboss. We go through the Dark Portal, from which the orcs invaded Azeroth. Have you ever watched the TBC announcement trailer? They clearly state that "the Burning Legion has returned to claim vengeance."

https://youtu.be/YdqxOUk0G9s?t=27

Kazaak was a worldboss and was originally in Vanilla, as a commander of the Legion, who was there awaiting the reopening of the portal so he could lead the remaining Legion forces to Outland, which he did in TBC and he was a worldboss there too. Was he allied with Illidan there? No he was clearly a Burning Legion commander.

The rest of the first tier was made up of all the allies of Illidan - Kael'thas and Vashj, plus smaller raids like Magtheridon and Gruul. Illidan, Kael'thas and Vashj were clearly connected to the Burning Legion. The last we saw of them was in TFT directly serving Kil'jaeden. They have all sorts of demonic allies. Gruul was unrelated, but Magtheridon has a connection to the Legion. And other than Zul'aman, every other raid is thematicly connected to the Burning Legion. Hyjal is the battle against the Legion from WC3 and Sunwell is a full on Legion assault. The zones are all the remnants of a world where the orcs, allied with the Burning Legion, killed the Draenei. Remnants of the Burning Legion can be seen everywhere, in every zone. The Draenei and the Blood Elves are both races introduced that have a history with the Burning Legion. Draenei fled from the Legion and are the same race as top Legion commanders like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden and the Blood Elves used fel energies to sate their mana addiction, and are through Kael'thas linked to the Legion.

But go ahead and say again how the Burning Crusade had nothing to do with the Burning Legion and how it was all just Illidan.

Anyone disputing that Cataclysm was a dragon expansion or that TBC was a Legion expansion will from now on be ignored. You are not worth my time.

[Matthias]

The main theme was clearly "big dragon attacks the world". The intent was to bring the game back to the roots of fantasy games with a dragon antagonist. That's why it was so important for them to have Deathwing as the login screen.

Blackwing Descent with Nefarian and Onyxia as endbosses, plus a lot of dragon stuff in there. Twilight dragons and a story with the red dragons in Twilight Highlands, the dragonflights being involved in general, Caverns of Time with Murozond, Bastion of Twilight had dragons, Halfus Wyrmbreaker, Valiona and Theralion, Sinestra as a heroic only endboss. Grim Batol connected to dragons. Green dragons at Mount Hyjal. There are even dragons in the Skywall dungeon and raid, Drake of the North Wind was a drop from the dungeon, Drake of the South Wind from the raid. Stonecore had dragons, with a dragon mount drop in there, Deepholme had tons of dragons, also lorewise connected to Deathwing. Blackrock Caverns dungeon had dragons. Revamped Cataclysm zones like Badlands dealt with the story of the dragons. While Firelands had no dragons, the legendary staff in there was dragon-related, and it took you to the Nexus and had you interact with Kalec and Tarecgosa and other blue dragons. And then of course Dragon Soul and the fight against Deathwing, with all of the other aspects assisting us, tons of dragons in that raid. Oh and Wrathion and the legendary daggers questline involves a lot of dragons. So the first tier had dragon-related stuff in every raid, Firelands was related to dragons through the legendary and Dragon Soul was heavily dragon-focussed. Both legendaries in the expansion were connected to dragon lore. Almost all zones related to dragons and a lot of dungeons with dragons.

Maybe I even forgot some stuff, that's just at the top of my head. Really, do we have to deny that Cataclysm can be called a dragon-expansion? Sure the elements played a role in it too. Yeah, so did the Titan stuff in Wrath, but it's not wrong to call it an undead expansion, just cause it also had some Titan stuff.


Yes, we did. It was called THE BURNING CRUSADE. Why does this have to be argued? Should I go through this too? First raid Karazhan, connection to the Burning Legion because of Medivh who opened the Dark Portal and had Sargeras inside him. Satyr boss in there and Malchezaar, the Eredar prince, as the endboss. We go through the Dark Portal, from which the orcs invaded Azeroth. Have you ever watched the TBC announcement trailer? They clearly state that "the Burning Legion has returned to claim vengeance."

https://youtu.be/YdqxOUk0G9s?t=27

Kazaak was a worldboss and was originally in Vanilla, as a commander of the Legion, who was there awaiting the reopening of the portal so he could lead the remaining Legion forces to Outland, which he did in TBC and he was a worldboss there too. Was he allied with Illidan there? No he was clearly a Burning Legion commander.

The rest of the first tier was made up of all the allies of Illidan - Kael'thas and Vashj, plus smaller raids like Magtheridon and Gruul. Illidan, Kael'thas and Vashj were clearly connected to the Burning Legion. The last we saw of them was in TFT directly serving Kil'jaeden. They have all sorts of demonic allies. Gruul was unrelated, but Magtheridon has a connection to the Legion. And other than Zul'aman, every other raid is thematicly connected to the Burning Legion. Hyjal is the battle against the Legion from WC3 and Sunwell is a full on Legion assault. The zones are all the remnants of a world where the orcs, allied with the Burning Legion, killed the Draenei. Remnants of the Burning Legion can be seen everywhere, in every zone. The Draenei and the Blood Elves are both races introduced that have a history with the Burning Legion. Draenei fled from the Legion and are the same race as top Legion commanders like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden and the Blood Elves used fel energies to sate their mana addiction, and are through Kael'thas linked to the Legion.

But go ahead and say again how the Burning Crusade had nothing to do with the Burning Legion and how it was all just Illidan.

Anyone disputing that Cataclysm was a dragon expansion or that TBC was a Legion expansion will from now on be ignored. You are not worth my time.

The arguement that TBC is a Legion expansion is far stronger then Cataclysm being a "Dragon" expansion. Yea it has a lot of freakin Dragons, and the Aspects are a focal point, but it's not like it's a dragon invasion. I sure as hell didn't feel the theme. All of our enemies in Cata have an affiliation with the Old Gods which is why they are allied with Deathwing. Al'Akir, Ragnaros and their elementals, Cho'gall and his Twilight Hammer, and yes the Dragons that Deathwing just loves experimenting, somehow reviving his kids, and the Twilight Flight.

TBC we mostly dealt with the Illidari, Magtheridon is trapped in HFC and not a threat to us, were the ones who free him for giggles. Kazzak is chilling in a corner and we don't even need to kill him. Vashj serves Azshara who serves the Old Gods, it's only Kael who is directly serving the Legion at the end.

My main point was that it's unlikely that we would deal with the The Lich King again right after we dealt with the Legion. Legion is supposed to be the biggest invasion Azeroth has faced. We merely pushed Kil'jaedan back through a portal, he was still an ever present threat that we knew we had to deal with. Arthas was actually killed, and his replacements motives left ambigous. Deathwing was also actually killed. We had closer in those stories. We are finally going to take on Kil'jaedan in his full power, and perhaps even Sargeras. I doubt the LK popping back up next expansion as the next big bad will be a thing. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[Elim Garak]

The arguement that TBC is a Legion expansion is far stronger then Cataclysm being a "Dragon" expansion.

You've got to be trolling. Please tell me you are.
Cataclysm is THE DRAGON.

[Deleted]

This isn't real, but I do remember when:
-People said DH overlapped too much with Warlocks
-People said Blizzard would never announce an expansion outside of Blizzcon
-People said we weren't going to reuse zones and continents

Honestly, while this is almost certainly fake, it is a pretty interesting idea for an expansion.

"They would never do Pandaren, they're a joke race."
"They're never gonna allow flying in Azeroth, the world would look totally broken."
"There's never gonna be another class after the Death Knight because it's horrible for balancing."

But my favourite is, after all the classes for Diablo 3 were announced

"Great. Now we're never gonna get the Monk and Demon Hunter in WoW, cause Diablo 3 already has them."

Oh well, look what the next two classes were. One more reason to believe the Necromancer is gonna be the next class in WoW.

[Sierra85]

I don't believe we will get a return of lich king as an expansion. perhaps something fresh, similar to how ungoro expansion worked in hearthstone.

soemthing simple, yet enticing for the masses

[MechaCThun]

"They would never do Pandaren, they're a joke race."
"They're never gonna allow flying in Azeroth, the world would look totally broken."
"There's never gonna be another class after the Death Knight because it's horrible for balancing."

But my favourite is, after all the classes for Diablo 3 were announced

"Great. Now we're never gonna get the Monk and Demon Hunter in WoW, cause Diablo 3 already has them."

Oh well, look what the next two classes were. One more reason to believe the Necromancer is gonna be the next class in WoW.

Given the trend of Blizzard taking elements from D3, I wouldn't be surprised.

But from a thematic/flavor stand point (and I use "flavor" very loosely since Blizzard's take on "flavor" is gag inducing) they would have to do a massive overhaul to what a Necromancer is.

Necromancer - in the WoW universe - is that dark, brooding figure with power over the dead. Too much like the current DK.

[Deleted]

Necromancer - in the WoW universe - is that dark, brooding figure with power over the dead. Too much like the current DK.

Not like the DK at all.

[MechaCThun]

Not like the DK at all.

Not sure if trying to troll or genuinely defending this point.

(1.) Lore. Both Necromancers and Death Knights (playable) come from the Undead Scourge. Both either command over undeath, use undeath as a weapon, and/or use the typical archetypes associated with Warcraft's presentation of "death" and "decay" since they originated from the same faction of death. Post-WotLK this has not changed.

(2.) Presentation. Death Knights, raised from death to serve the Lich King and kill enemies of the Scourge. Command over icy "Frost" that can chill you to your core, manipulate your "Blood" to harm you from within, or use "Unholy" diseases and command undead minions to assault you with. Necromancers, dark mages who raise the dead and assault you with the same type of deathly magic, typically without a sword or axe... and typically the use of "Frost" attacks. Instead they would use skeleton warriors, ghouls to do their work, maybe cause you to rot over time, or plainly shoot dark magic at you.

(3.) Class Theme. With the addition to Demon Hunters, that is a 2nd hero class that is a "dark themed" class. Regardless as to how you feel as the consumer, who is willing to pay money to play no matter what, the addition of a 3rd "dark themed" class is willful over saturation on Blizzard's part. 2 classes that deal with the Holy Light, 3-4 classes that deal with nature and life, 2 classes that deal with magic in the traditional fantasy sense, and 2-3 classes that are also your normal, traditional RPG classes (the brutish "warrior", the sneaky "rogue, etc). Now like I said that may be fine with you, but as hero classes are added to the game in expansions as major features, Blizzard would have more to lose if they added the Necromancer as its incarnation is now as a playable hero class, unless...

(4.) Revamp. There are many different incarnations of "necromancers" across many different fictional works. Blizzard could attempt to revamp the whole vision of their necromancer, a long with many lore-esque retcons, but I feel like that would take too much time and the view of Blizzard attempting to do that will just sour the community on Necromancers as they are now. THEN, you have "the necromancer class everyone always wanted to play" ..... completely different from what we knew it to be.

As stated in another thread, just because 2 classes share the same "school of magic" and "lore wise derive their power from the same source" doesn't mean they SHOULD not exist. Primary example: paladins and priests. So a necromancer as it is can work within the game currently.

But why? Blizzard themselves stated they absorbed a lot of what they were trying to do originally with the necromancer class into the DK during WotLK... so just prune the DK to allow a Necromancer to be playable?

AND on the coattails of adding the Demon Hunter which is also - that I said above - another dark, brooding figure. Which is the same with a DK.

So when you say "not like a DK at all" I do not know what you mean.

[Deleted]

Not sure if trying to troll or genuinely defending this point.

(1.) Lore. Both Necromancers and Death Knights (playable) come from the Undead Scourge. Both either command over undeath, use undeath as a weapon, and/or use the typical archetypes associated with Warcraft's presentation of "death" and "decay" since they originated from the same faction of death. Post-WotLK this has not changed.

(2.) Presentation. Death Knights, raised from death to serve the Lich King and kill enemies of the Scourge. Command over icy "Frost" that can chill you to your core, manipulate your "Blood" to harm you from within, or use "Unholy" diseases and command undead minions to assault you with. Necromancers, dark mages who raise the dead and assault you with the same type of deathly magic, typically without a sword or axe... and typically the use of "Frost" attacks. Instead they would use skeleton warriors, ghouls to do their work, maybe cause you to rot over time, or plainly shoot dark magic at you.

(3.) Class Theme. With the addition to Demon Hunters, that is a 2nd hero class that is a "dark themed" class. Regardless as to how you feel as the consumer, who is willing to pay money to play no matter what, the addition of a 3rd "dark themed" class is willful over saturation on Blizzard's part. 2 classes that deal with the Holy Light, 3-4 classes that deal with nature and life, 2 classes that deal with magic in the traditional fantasy sense, and 2-3 classes that are also your normal, traditional RPG classes (the brutish "warrior", the sneaky "rogue, etc). Now like I said that may be fine with you, but as hero classes are added to the game in expansions as major features, Blizzard would have more to lose if they added the Necromancer as its incarnation is now as a playable hero class, unless...

(4.) Revamp. There are many different incarnations of "necromancers" across many different fictional works. Blizzard could attempt to revamp the whole vision of their necromancer, a long with many lore-esque retcons, but I feel like that would take too much time and the view of Blizzard attempting to do that will just sour the community on Necromancers as they are now. THEN, you have "the necromancer class everyone always wanted to play" ..... completely different from what we knew it to be.

As stated in another thread, just because 2 classes share the same "school of magic" and "lore wise derive their power from the same source" doesn't mean they SHOULD not exist. Primary example: paladins and priests. So a necromancer as it is can work within the game currently.

But why? Blizzard themselves stated they absorbed a lot of what they were trying to do originally with the necromancer class into the DK during WotLK... so just prune the DK to allow a Necromancer to be playable?

AND on the coattails of adding the Demon Hunter which is also - that I said above - another dark, brooding figure. Which is the same with a DK.

So when you say "not like a DK at all" I do not know what you mean.

Necromancers are spellcasters that raise skeletons and attack with ranged attacks. They sought out the dark arts, because they seek power. They don't have to be undead themselves.

Death Knights are fallen champions in plate armor, that wield rune blades and were raised into undeath against their will by the Lich King.

So yeah, no, Necromancers and DKs are not the same, and the people who will say this are the same people that said Demon Hunters are just Warlocks, or Tinkers would just be like engineers.

[MrLachyG]

And the Vrykul actually were deeply connected to the Scourge, Illidan raised King Ymirion from the dead to make them his servants. He turns many of the women into Valk'yr. True we go on a tangent in Ulduar, but every other big raid and most dungeons are about the Scourge.

I just know my lore dude

Um you claim to know lore yet got who raised Ymiron from the dead wrong?

[MechaCThun]

Necromancers are spellcasters that raise skeletons and attack with ranged attacks. They sought out the dark arts, because they seek power. They don't have to be undead themselves.

Death Knights are fallen champions in plate armor, that wield rune blades and were raised into undeath against their will by the Lich King.

So yeah, no, Necromancers and DKs are not the same, and the people who will say this are the same people that said Demon Hunters are just Warlocks, or Tinkers would just be like engineers.

I didn't say they were the same, I was explaining that the crossover between the 2 is that of too much of the same and not enough differentiating factors.

"fallen champions in plate armor, that wield rune blades and were raised into undeath against their will by the Lich King... who use power that is the SAME power of the same dark arts necromancers use that can also raise skeletons/ghouls/summons gargoyles"

So if the difference is purely the "end goal" - Necromancers seeking power, DK's forced to use that power - that is a very small difference. Not enough to justify a whole class.

So like I said in my post, no they aren't the same and it is feasible to implement... just not any time soon.

Um you claim to know lore yet got who raised Ymiron from the dead wrong?

The sarcasm went into the sky... look up there before you miss it!

[HollyCarp]

I'm just thankful the expansion as a whole has been debunked. Old enemies have returned quite enough by now, thank you very much, and Zul'Aman and Karazhan being remade into 5-person dungeons was also quite enough for me. At least we can still access the old Karazhan.

As many people hated it, I liked Vashj'ir, so I'm ready to face off against Azshara and the naga. If not next expansion, then the one after.

If another Lich King return WAS true, I'm sure I would still play simply because there's no other game I could hope to play long-term, but I'd hate it, launch to finale, just wending my way through. Wrath was fine the way it was. And it was enough-- no need to go back for seconds.

[TriHard]

I'm just thankful the expansion as a whole has been debunked. Old enemies have returned quite enough by now, thank you very much, and Zul'Aman and Karazhan being remade into 5-person dungeons was also quite enough for me. At least we can still access the old Karazhan.

As many people hated it, I liked Vashj'ir, so I'm ready to face off against Azshara and the naga. If not next expansion, then the one after.

If another Lich King return WAS true, I'm sure I would still play simply because there's no other game I could hope to play long-term, but I'd hate it, launch to finale, just wending my way through. Wrath was fine the way it was. And it was enough-- no need to go back for seconds.

Agreed, another scourge expansion would be the most boring shit ever. I'd prefer moving forward instead of backwards.

[GodEmperor]

Necromancers if anything have a bit in common with only Unholy DK and very little with the other two DK specs. Inside wow, Necromancer NPCs seem to be non-undead cloth wearing caster npcs with red eyes. Kind of like the difference between DH and Warlock. I could definitely see them being added and would personally love another cloth caster.

[anon5123]

why is this thread still here

41 pages for a fake "leak"

??

[HollyCarp]

I could definitely see them being added and would personally love another cloth caster.

While I can see it to some extent myself, (and I know this is slightly off topic but bear with me a sec), we're overdue for another mail wearer. We've already had one new plate class and two new leather classes added. While another clothie might also seem due, we already have three clothies and only two mail wearers.

Or is the extreme overabundance of hunters enough to balance that out :P

Anyway I played a necro in Diablo 2, it's not the same as warlock or unholy DK but there are some similarities, enough that they'd have to be creative to make a WoW necro truly unique. Still, I approach it with caution-- it *IS* tied closely into the Scourge and I'd rather we not have to revisit another pending Scourge epidemic.

[Azgraal]

why is this thread still here

41 pages for a fake "leak"

??

Because a) people lose their shit everytime at the slight mention of "leak", and b) i could expeculate the vast majority of the current playerbase has very fond memories of WotLK and wouldn't mind re experiencing the theme.

I, for one, wouldn't mind it if done correctly. Bolvar's story has room to grow.

That being said, this "leak" is as fake as a porn star's tits.

[Qnubi]

That being said, this "leak" is as fake as a porn star's tits.

Which means there is a possibility it's real.

No, I am not gonna post names of porn stars with real tits. :P