Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Symphonic]

According to the simulations, the best legendaries I have (cloak, ring) don't show up at all in sub or assassination, but are 43rd in outlaw... might have to learn how to play outlaw........ :S Or the game could give me boots, bracers, or shoulder...

[Cyanix]

What is "viable"? Viability to me is about progressing - no one is benching their rogues on progression fights, and if they are, that's 100000% on the player. We've gotten outscaled a bit 6 months into the tier but we're still a top 3 tunnelling spec. I wouldn't base the strength of our class going into next tier on how we are deep into farm.

Out of all the dps classes/ specs, i suspect rogues are the only ones forced to "tunnel" to achieve top 3...

I keep hearing the same remarks, repeatedly, the same remarks they've been throwing at us since the release of this raid:
-why are rogues so low on adds/eyes/whatever.

It's getting VERY frustrating.

[elfporn]

But Sub was never best, even without the nerf. It was good - okay, but Assa was still better.

Not true at all.

On launch, Outlaw was the top spec. Then it got nerfed. Afterward, during EN, sub was easily the best spec if you were lucky enough to get the best legendaries. Ass had less reliance on legendaries to do decent damage, but was most definitely behind sub.

Then 7.1(i think) dropped, the shoulders became available, and at some point in time here the sub boots got a massive massive nerf. Putting sub behind ass for the last week or two of EN and all of NH.

Now we're going into ToS, most progression rogues should have all their legendaries for atleast one spec, if not all three, and should easily have concordance in all 3 specs(it's stupid easy now). With our choice of legendaries and full artifacts, swapping to the best spec SHOULD be less of a problem than ever.

The best choice is probably going to just be what you enjoy most. Unless you've been super lackadaisical and only have a few legendaries and are still working on concordance for one weapon....

[scarfdeath]

so... new PTR... no fucking tunning at all...

[Anelya]

Unless you've been super lackadaisical and only have a few legendaries and are still working on concordance for one weapon....

That's me!

Although I've been taking breaks off and on, got bored with rogues after EN and have been playing the same one since launch so I leveled up my hunter and focused a lot more on my DH. Now those are boring aswell and my roguefingers are twitching but I feel sooo far behind in terms of dps while raiding and mythic +. Working on those last AP, think I'm at lvl 46 or so.

I've only done one EN since I came back but a mythic 9 or 10 with a dps of 500k-ish. I've got the legendary shoulders but no boots, just Sephuz and the cloak. How much does the set from NH play into dps? Not much time left until ToS which I hope to raid a bit, but my main focus should/will be NH and getting items from there I suppose?

I'm not sure about my stats, but comparing to most other rogues I play with they seem fine.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...st/an%C3%A9lya

Any pointers are highly appreciated! (yes, I know, no gem in gloves, fixing that after work tonight^^)

[Eazy]

On launch, Outlaw was the top spec. Then it got nerfed.

Yeah, I was talking about Sub, Sub was meant to be best spec, though I was going for Outlaw.

Afterward, during EN, sub was easily the best spec if you were lucky enough to get the best legendaries. Ass had less reliance on legendaries to do decent damage, but was most definitely behind sub.

Then 7.1(i think) dropped, the shoulders became available, and at some point in time here the sub boots got a massive massive nerf. Putting sub behind ass for the last week or two of EN and all of NH.

I thought that in 7.1 even before the nerf Assa was better than Sub? My fault then.

Now we're going into ToS, most progression rogues should have all their legendaries for atleast one spec, if not all three, and should easily have concordance in all 3 specs(it's stupid easy now). With our choice of legendaries and full artifacts, swapping to the best spec SHOULD be less of a problem than ever.

The best choice is probably going to just be what you enjoy most. Unless you've been super lackadaisical and only have a few legendaries and are still working on concordance for one weapon....

That's the reason why I'll stay Assa probably, though the new Outlaw buff seems nice.

[Darkkz]

Am I the only one that finds the Assa T20 bonuses status really..retarded? We are (probably) one week away from live @ 7.2.5.

[shaunika123]

But Sub was never best, even without the nerf. It was good - okay, but Assa was still better.

except it wasnt
it just relied on the boots way too much
but with it it was better than assa
or at the very least equal(feel free to check 7.1 logs, and remember sub has no big RNG outliers like assa and OL does, that distort top logs)

[DakonBlackblade]

I feel bad for any guild still progressing on mythic Guldan come next week. Ppl on last pahse nearing a kill will have their kill robbed from them cause the all around enrfs on this patch are so massive guilds will probably see a 5%+ overall DPS loss.

[shaunika123]

I feel bad for any guild still progressing on mythic Guldan come next week. Ppl on last pahse nearing a kill will have their kill robbed from them cause the all around enrfs on this patch are so massive guilds will probably see a 5%+ overall DPS loss.

you do realize every single rogue spec gets a massive dps buff right?

also, guldan in this gear/Artifact traits has literally no dps requirements other than having 2 arms

if you can do the mechanics properly he dies
even with like 18 people

[Deleted]

According to the simulations, the best legendaries I have (cloak, ring) don't show up at all in sub or assassination, but are 43rd in outlaw... might have to learn how to play outlaw........ :S Or the game could give me boots, bracers, or shoulder...

The cloak for outlaw is the new cloak coming in 7.2.5, not dreadlords deceit

[DakonBlackblade]

you do realize every single rogue spec gets a massive dps buff right?

also, guldan in this gear/Artifact traits has literally no dps requirements other than having 2 arms

if you can do the mechanics properly he dies
even with like 18 people

What massive buf, if you can go outlaw or sub because you have the right legendaries you get a small buff till you have T20, if you are Sin you basicaly stay the same, then you have a bunch of realy powerfull specs like Frost Dks and Frost mages getting nerfed, and all the T19 tier set nerfs. And the figth is obviously much easier but its not nearly as easy as that, one of the reasons ppl doing late progression has an easier time is because the higher DPS allow them to skip a bunch of mechanics, with the nerfs they won't skip stuff anymore.

I might be wrong and overall raids will get bufed, but it does not seen like it from looking at what is changing all around the board.

[shaunika123]

What massive buf, if you can go outlaw or sub because you have the right legendaries you get a small buff till you have T20, if you are Sin you basicaly stay the same, then you have a bunch of realy powerfull specs like Frost Dks and Frost mages getting nerfed, and all the T19 tier set nerfs. And the figth is obviously much easier but its not nearly as easy as that, one of the reasons ppl doing late progression has an easier time is because the higher DPS allow them to skip a bunch of mechanics, with the nerfs they won't skip stuff anymore.

I might be wrong and overall raids will get bufed, but it does not seen like it from looking at what is changing all around the board.

on outlaw i sim 50k higher on the ptr in the exact same gear i have on live
on sub i sim 40k higher
on assa i sim 20k higher

so yeah, pretty massive

also you went from "massive nerfs" to "basically the same" pretty quick

[Symphonic]

The cloak for outlaw is the new cloak coming in 7.2.5, not dreadlords deceit

Oh, haha! Whoops!

[DakonBlackblade]

on outlaw i sim 50k higher on the ptr in the exact same gear i have on live
on sub i sim 40k higher
on assa i sim 20k higher

so yeah, pretty massive

also you went from "massive nerfs" to "basically the same" pretty quick

50k buf is nowhere near massive. And thats for rogues, meanwhile frost dks lost 15% of their deeps, overall its very likely raid DPS is going down till T20 set bonuses. Anyway its not my problem, I just think all these class "balancement" patches are rather stupid and disruptive, Bliz should stop throwing a wrench at every class and spec every 3/4 months.

Unrelated to the above but what talents are you runing os Sin on the Simulation ? Elaborated Planing and Toxic Blades ? Did you simulate your deeps wit Master Poisoner and Alacricity ?

[shaunika123]

50k buf is nowhere near massive. And thats for rogues, meanwhile frost dks lost 15% of their deeps, overall its very likely raid DPS is going down till T20 set bonuses. Anyway its not my problem, I just think all these class "balancement" patches are rather stupid and disruptive, Bliz should stop throwing a wrench at every class and spec every 3/4 months.

Unrelated to the above but what talents are you runing os Sin on the Simulation ? Elaborated Planing and Toxic Blades ? Did you simulate your deeps wit Master Poisoner and Alacricity ?

best results came with MP+TB

btw havoc DHs are also getting a buff
so are mages
so are warriors(albeit arms)

frost DK is kinda in the minority here
even if they are nerfed, their nerfs are offset by the buffs other classes get

and 50k dps is massive for a spec that was already very good

and quite frankly when are you gonna nerf/buff stuff if not 1 week before a new raid?

[Cyanix]

and 50k dps is massive for a spec that was already very good

Let's not blow things outta proportions.

Outlaw wasn't "very good".

High parses were few and far between, drowned into a sea of warlocks and frost mages.

If anything, you played Outlaw for the lulz, but you never know, you *might* get consecutive super rolls which instantly grant you good parses.

That's not a good spec in my book.

The PTR SnD seems solid, much more reliable.

[shaunika123]

Let's not blow things outta proportions.

Outlaw wasn't "very good".

High parses were few and far between, drowned into a sea of warlocks and frost mages.

If anything, you played Outlaw for the lulz, but you never know, you *might* get consecutive super rolls which instantly grant you good parses.

That's not a good spec in my book.

The PTR SnD seems solid, much more reliable.

ok first of all "very good" in my book doesnt mean "rank1 omg op" because that would be well.. OP, not very good, which frostmages are

and outlaw is still a good spec even without insane rolls, especially that cof and loaded dice fixed a lot of the problems with the spec
yes you still get some parses where you roll 7-8 consecutive non TBS and want to kill yourself, but they're not that frequent anymore
even without insane rolls outlaw is in the upper half of the performing specs on average, and that's if not "very" good then at least good

secondly: SND is still worse than MFD thank god. anyone who wants that mind numbing mundanity that is SND is out of their mind

[Cyanix]

SND is still worse than MFD thank god. anyone who wants that mind numbing mundanity that is SND is out of their mind

Tbh i couldn't care less if SnD was boring to death (been combat raiding since Vanilla), as long as it performs better than the rest.

[Deleted]

exsanguinate pretty much needs jesus at this point

hahah ok that made me laugh