Frost vs Unholy 7.2.5

[spanishninja]

Yeah. There were no huge UH buffs. Frost has been nerfed a little.

I dont think anyone knows yet. Encounter design might matter, perhaps it varies on fight to fight basis.

there were no huge buffs to uh mechanics, but in terns of the new class ring and tier, both seem to be favoring unholy.

[Maxweii]

Unholy got an aura buff, without any of the nerfs that Frost got along with it's aura. As well as the changes to DC, which are overall damage buffs there, and some talent tweaking all over.

[Bisque]

Hypothetically if frost underperforms I would like to see them bring buff back throne breaker to its originally value along with making crystalline swords reduce the sindrogsa cd by 3 seconds instead of one. Such a great bonus and was nerfed day one/two. The only good thing is throne breaker can be seen as "tuning knobs" for frost without making it OP.

[Deleted]

there were no huge buffs to uh mechanics, but in terns of the new class ring and tier, both seem to be favoring unholy.

Well set bonuses arent final, for NH they nerfed some set bonuses by 50 to 70% after patch went live. Frost set bonus is very strong too. E.g. for my enhance T20 sims 6.7% dps gain, frost DK nearly 11%.

And unholy is already behind. So it needs a buff to be viable.

So i would def. say: wait a few weeks until we have some logs data. Frost isnt getting weaker and unholy isnt that much stronger. It might be close.

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Unholy got an aura buff, without any of the nerfs that Frost got along with it's aura. As well as the changes to DC, which are overall damage buffs there, and some talent tweaking all over.

Unholy got nerfs too. Aura compensated those.

Frost DK got a small overall nerf (2% for my char), but t20 is currently 2% stronger than t19 and i might fast replace my 890 BR relics with 910+ relics.

Also the new legendary chest seems somewhat op, bracers got a huge buff.

I dont know what will be better. I think frost will be better on some fights.

Better be prepared to switch specs.

[Indil]

For what i saw, the only UH nerf was to bracers, mainly to compensate the broken af new ring.
with my current gear i sim 820k as unholy.While on ptr i sim 940k. I call them buffs.
But the scaling factor is what bothers me the most.

[Deleted]

For what i saw, the only UH nerf was to bracers, mainly to compensate the broken af new ring.
with my current gear i sim 820k as unholy.While on ptr i sim 940k. I call them buffs.
But the scaling factor is what bothers me the most.

But Unholy is currently behind by some margin. Noone knows how much.

[Deleted]

For what i saw, the only UH nerf was to bracers, mainly to compensate the broken af new ring.
with my current gear i sim 820k as unholy.While on ptr i sim 940k. I call them buffs.
But the scaling factor is what bothers me the most.

Did you have t20 4pc on during your testing?

[Baddok21]

Finally was able to get Titanforged 925 shoulders and 920 Legs.

cant wait for that T19 2pc + T20 4pc

[kail]

Any word on how Castigator stacks up with the new ring? Also how strong are Death Screamers looking at? I'm liking how UH is being more and more of a pet/minion class, but I worry about how they scale.

[Maxweii]

Unholy got nerfs too. Aura compensated those.

Where exactly do you see the Unholy nerfs because the only thing that could be considered a nerf is the change to Death's Harbinger (2 runes instead of three, less overcapping when using Apoc). As well as the change to bracers from 1-3 to 1-2, which was entirely needed given the new ring legendary.
Other than that it's been all buffs.

[Deleted]

Where exactly do you see the Unholy nerfs because the only thing that could be considered a nerf is the change to Death's Harbinger (2 runes instead of three, less overcapping when using Apoc). As well as the change to bracers from 1-3 to 1-2, which was entirely needed given the new ring legendary.
Other than that it's been all buffs.

You listed them already. There was theorycrafting that the first aura buffs were nearly dps neutral.

Additionally unholy needs those buffs because it is behind:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11

The difference between frost and UH was huge.

[spanishninja]

You listed them already. There was theorycrafting that the first aura buffs were nearly dps neutral.

Additionally unholy needs those buffs because it is behind:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11

The difference between frost and UH was huge.

quoting statistics from 7.2 isn't terribly helpful when it comes to talking about 7.2.5.

[Maxweii]

You listed them already. There was theorycrafting that the first aura buffs were nearly dps neutral.

Additionally unholy needs those buffs because it is behind:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11

The difference between frost and UH was huge.

The aura buff it got was a 5% flat damage increase for the spec as a whole, that of which neither of the nerfs even comes close to 5%.
What is your argument here? Unholy has received nothing but tune ups and mechanical changes. The bracers change is the only thing close to a nerf, and is offset by the new ring, as well as an aura that adds much more than the loss of the extra chance for 1 more wound pop.

[Deleted]

The original change to Death Coil and its cost on the early PTR build months ago with only T19 available for testing with indicated a virtual 0 dps gain. Fast forward to the latest PTR build and we have T20, two new legendary items, unholy aura buffs and a potentially a new ranking order of our current legendary items.
The key question isn't how much our spec has improved (it inevitably will) but how it compares to other classes.

For those progressing on mythic, it's a combination of being able to deal high damage and boss mechanics, which historically frost could do really well, with RNG being kind. Unholy as a ranged melee class was very useful in NH mechanically, despite our slow movement speed, but our damage had to be buffed and some encounters nerfed.

In short we just have to wait and see.

[Maxweii]

It's very worth noting that the first iteration of the DC change was not a gain or loss. However it was then buffed in a later build, and was a buff overall (before the aura).

As is even if Frost falls from near top spot, and Unholy moves up more to middle again, middle is a good spot to be in.

[Deleted]

quoting statistics from 7.2 isn't terribly helpful when it comes to talking about 7.2.5.

Wtf. Of course it is because it shows that a buff is needed for UH to be viable.

Noone doubts that UH will be better. The question is: how far is UH behind? If UH is 10% and gets a 7% buff, it is still 3% behind. If it is 4%, UH would be 3% ahead.

That is noone can tell you how it plays out. We probably gotta wait 2 or 3 weeks of TOS with top players getting T20+legendaries to see how performance will be.

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The aura buff it got was a 5% flat damage increase for the spec as a whole, that of which neither of the nerfs even comes close to 5%.
What is your argument here? Unholy has received nothing but tune ups and mechanical changes. The bracers change is the only thing close to a nerf, and is offset by the new ring, as well as an aura that adds much more than the loss of the extra chance for 1 more wound pop.

As i wrote: unholy is currently "far" behind frost. Noone knows yet whether the tuneups are enough to be viable.

[Mirishka]

Frost is life, frost is love!

Always played frost when it sucked and when it peaked!

\o/

To this day I miss frost tanking. DK Frost tanking in Naxx25 = some of my favorite WoW memories.

[Maxweii]

This conversation started mainly because it was said Unholy got nerfed as well, which it didn't. However, Frost has been nerfed from the Blast Radius changes. By and by, Frost will drop a bit, Unholy will go up a bit. Gap will close, will come down to mechanics and legendaries you have ect.

[Deleted]

This conversation started mainly because it was said Unholy got nerfed as well, which it didn't. However, Frost has been nerfed from the Blast Radius changes. By and by, Frost will drop a bit, Unholy will go up a bit. Gap will close, will come down to mechanics and legendaries you have ect.

depending on the tos bosses i think even if frost will be stronger dps wise, we will still play UH. Lots of the new bosses are singletarget and require running all the time...
I Dont think you will be able to play frost optimal if you need to run away like every 20 sec, but i hope i am wrong.

[Deleted]

depending on the tos bosses i think even if frost will be stronger dps wise, we will still play UH. Lots of the new bosses are singletarget and require running all the time...
I Dont think you will be able to play frost optimal if you need to run away like every 20 sec, but i hope i am wrong.

It is a learning issue. Frost is very dependant on knowing when to use it and anztivipate movement.

We will see where we end up. BOS windows will be anyways much shorter. And we had tons of bosses looking melee unfriendly until a tactics came up. Some TOS bosses were rumored to be not usable by BOS. Just look at threads in January.

All those people saying unholy was as strong as frost, saying you cant play BOS on hectic fights like Elisande. Was the same issue. There will be no set rule.