Four countries cut links with Qatar over 'terrorism' support

[Mihalik]

Ehh.. what?

Syria was never "aligned" with Iran. Assad's baath party is a pan-Arabist movement in the first place. Only since the recent shit show in Syria they have been associating themselves with Iran.
And what do you mean "the reluctance of Sunni Arab states to act against ISIS"? They have been supporting the Syrian opposition from the start of the Civil War. Just as Iran has been backing Assad - whose primary interest isn't defeating ISIS (who have only been occupying the Syrian periphery), but getting the Sunni opposition back in line. But yeah, such nuance doesn't fit the banal narrative of Sunni is bad (because ISIS is Sunni); Alawi / Shia is good because they are not Sunni.

The Iran-Syria alliance has been in place since the Iraq-Iran war going back to the times of Hafez Al-Assad. They both have also been historical backers of Hezbollah.

While they were somewhat less close than they are today, they have long been sharing strategic interests.

Also Arab states lead by Saudi Arabia did in fact support the Syrian opposition, but only because they always seen it as a vehicle to replace the Alawites with a Sunni aligned Islamist government. Or are we going to pretend that Saudi Arabia is a friend and sponsor of secular democracies? And their support of the Syrian opposition doesn't mean they were actively doing anything against ISIS, on the contrary, most of the funding and arms funneled into Syria ended up with ISIS or Al Qaeda as Sunni opposition groups started attaching themselves to either to ISIS or Al Nusra.

In this very specific situation the narrative does in fact fit perfectly. Sunni influence in the region is cancerous and destabilizing while the Shia very much represent a less toxic and more stable side.

Sunni Islamism is exponentially more dangerous and toxic than Shia has ever been.

[downnola]

The Iran-Syria alliance has been in place since the Iraq-Iran war going back to the times of Hafez Al-Assad. They both have also been historical backers of Hezbollah.

While they were somewhat less close than they are today, they have long been sharing strategic interests.

Also Arab states lead by Saudi Arabia did in fact support the Syrian opposition, but only because they always seen it as a vehicle to replace the Alawites with a Sunni aligned Islamist government. Or are we going to pretend that Saudi Arabia is a friend and sponsor of secular democracies? And their support of the Syrian opposition doesn't mean they were actively doing anything against ISIS, on the contrary, most of the funding and arms funneled into Syria ended up with ISIS or Al Qaeda as Sunni opposition groups started attaching themselves to either to ISIS or Al Nusra.

In this very specific situation the narrative does in fact fit perfectly. Sunni influence in the region is cancerous and destabilizing while the Shia very much represent a less toxic and more stable side.

Sunni Islamism is exponentially more dangerous and toxic than Shia has ever been.

I'd agree with you if we left out the fact that Iran has been seeking nukes for the past decade. Shia extremism is rarer than Sunni extremism, but an Iranian Mullah with a nuke is still a scary proposition.

[Barnabas]

Saudi Arabia talking shit about other countries supporting terrorism. My fucking sides.

Well if you don't support their terrorism then you are out.

[ONCHEhap]

Saudis coming up with the dankest memes

[Etselion]

The ruskies don't give a fuck anymore.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/06/po...sis/index.html

[Slybak]

This is just really taking the p... you know it's just about "You better support my kind of terrorism or else!" kind of gesture.

Doesn't even have anything to do with terrorism. This is part of the decades-long sectarian/political proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia, centered predominantly on the Shia-Sunni divide and Iran's support for anti-monarchical groups and activists in the Gulf region. Last year Saudi Arabia executed one of the most prominent of those activists, and relations between the two countries have been racing downhill ever since. Qatar is being ostracized by the other Sunni Gulf monarchies because it's one of the few that still maintains relations with Iran.

[Mihalik]

I'd agree with you if we left out the fact that Iran has been seeking nukes for the past decade. Shia extremism is rarer than Sunni extremism, but an Iranian Mullah with a nuke is still a scary proposition.

A nuclear armed anyone is a scary proposition. A nuclear armed Sweden would be a threat to global security. That is not the point. A better question would be why is Iran willing to invest into a nuclear program?

If one is willing to ask that question objectively the answer is fairly obvious, and from an Iranian stand point not pursuing a nuclear program would be literally worse than pursuing one.

Iran is surrounded by hostile powers fielding US arsenals and with access to US military backing (granted to these nations by the US contrary to its own security interests). Add to this the fact that every decade or so the US remembers that Iran exists and goes on some ill advised regime change scheme or launches a proxy war.

During the Iraq-Iran war Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, chemical weapons provided by its US sponsors. Add to this that another major regional power, Israel is nuclear armed, a nuclear arsenal of its own would allow Iran to ensure that the cycle of US interventions would end, and it would make its position unassailable to its Sunni rivals.

In such a setting it is utterly unsurprising Iran pursued a nuclear program. But it is important to keep in mind that they also acted rationally about this, both willing to negotiate and even offering a strategic alliance and an end of their nuclear ambitions in exchange for normalizing relations with the US in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, which Iran seen as a chance for rapprochement.

It was the utterly illogical and arbitrary refusal of these overtures by the Bush administration combined with that retarded Axis of Evil thing inclusion that basically convinced the Iranians that they simply can't hope for the US to stop being an existential threat to them.

We must never ever forget that Iran is a theocratic authoritarian state and a state sponsor of terrorism (via its relationship with Hezbollah and Hamas), but they have historically proven themselves to be rational actors (in a sense that you can make deals with them and they keep their agreements, and their policies are based on strategic and political realities, not solely ideology alone) and that their form of religious fanaticism is still more moderate than that of our supposed "friends".

[Gamevizier]

Just as predicted, Iran is now offering Qatar food and airspace (you know it's fucked up when the IRANIAN regime comes out as the mediator in a situation). Qatar's been facing an emergency food shortage due to SA and neighboring countries cutting off all land routes and airspace access to Qatar. Expect a closer relation between Iran and Qatar from now on and who knows, maybe Qatar decides to return the favor by giving Iranian elements access to Bahrain which allows them to stir up trouble within the tiny country.

So far the sunni royal family in Bahrain has managed to keep things under control but the shia majority population is not happy with it. Creating a riot inside Bahrain to topple the royal kingdom and replace it with a shia government is a red line for the Saudis. so if Saudi Arabia loses Bahrain it's gonna be an all-out-war between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Iran, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon and now Qatar, Iran's circle of allies is just getting bigger now thanks to stupid SA policies and their dimwit "good vs. evil" foreign policy mentality. All of this happening because idiot Trump decided to give SA and their ilk the green light to go ahead with their anti-iran campaign which emboldened this wrong foreign policy even further.

[Noomz]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle...ource=facebook

It's like watching murderers accusing each other of who's the worst killer because they kill different kinds of people. They're all equally bad. They've all supported terrorism. Especially Saudi Arabia.

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Just as predicted, Iran is now offering Qatar food and airspace (you know it's fucked up when the IRANIAN regime comes out as the mediator in a situation). Qatar's been facing an emergency food shortage due to SA and neighboring countries cutting off all land routes and airspace access to Qatar. Expect a closer relation between Iran and Qatar from now on and who knows, maybe Qatar decides to return the favor by giving Iranian elements access to Bahrain which allows them to stir up trouble within the tiny country.

So far the sunni royal family in Bahrain has managed to keep things under control but the shia majority population is not happy with it. Creating a riot inside Bahrain to topple the royal kingdom and replace it with a shia government is a red line for the Saudis. so if Saudi Arabia loses Bahrain it's gonna be an all-out-war between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Iran, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon and now Qatar, Iran's circle of allies is just getting bigger now thanks to stupid SA policies and their dimwit "good vs. evil" foreign policy mentality. All of this happening because idiot Trump decided to give SA and their ilk the green light to go ahead with their anti-iran campaign which emboldened this wrong foreign policy even further.

And if SA and Iran go to war, the US might get involved. ANd we'll have a fucking mess of a shithole war worse than Afghanist and Iraq combined.

[Gamevizier]

People get hanged in Iran en mass for "opposing the supreme leader rule". Both have just election for "local councils" and shit like that. The president in Iran is just a puppet for the image of "election" which somehow fools stupid people like you (or maybe just gives them a better argument for supporting Iran ...).

Anyways, the number of people that are hanged in Iran every year for "opposing the Islamic revolution" is miles miles miles ahead than the number of political executions in SA. I think that by far that makes Iran a much worse dictatorship than SA. Yet for some reason, it doesn't bother Qatar ... they are a monarchy which is allied with a religious dictatorship and they just want to spread some democracy around! How nice!

3 times more than saudi arabia, Iran also has 3 times more population than saudi arabia and is right next to afghanistan and thus right in the middle of the drug smuggling route which runs from afghanistan to europe, most of Iran's executions are drug related.

so not much different from Saudi Arabia, the only difference is that in SA execution is via beheading and in Iran its via hanging.

[Jastall]

"yeah, we don't like those guys cause they don't support OUR brand of Islamic terrorism."

Sadly that's pretty much what's happening here.

[Gamevizier]

It's like watching murderers accusing each other of who's the worst killer because they kill different kinds of people. They're all equally bad. They've all supported terrorism. Especially Saudi Arabia.

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And if SA and Iran go to war, the US might get involved. ANd we'll have a fucking mess of a shithole war worse than Afghanist and Iraq combined.

Don't forget Russia, Iran is their number 1 ally in the middle east and losing Iran is a huge blow to the Russians. every country should be working towards diffusing the situation not making it worse. something that this orange buffoon is not capable of understanding.

[Torched]

Haha I had a good laugh, Saudi of all countries accusing another country of supporting terrorism is hilarious.

[Deleted]

People get hanged in Iran en mass for "opposing the supreme leader rule". Both have just election for "local councils" and shit like that. The president in Iran is just a puppet for the image of "election" which somehow fools stupid people like you (or maybe just gives them a better argument for supporting Iran ...).

Anyways, the number of people that are hanged in Iran every year for "opposing the Islamic revolution" is miles miles miles ahead than the number of political executions in SA. I think that by far that makes Iran a much worse dictatorship than SA. Yet for some reason, it doesn't bother Qatar ... they are a monarchy which is allied with a religious dictatorship and they just want to spread some democracy around! How nice!

Well, Iran did just have its Presidential Elections, where the Ayatollah's preferred, anti-secular candidate lost to the more popular, pro-Western values (to a point, I have to admit) opponent. Is it still a place I would prefer not to live in, and is full of horrible issues? Yes. Is it a slavery-supporting absolute religious monarchy? No.
@Mihalik, the Sweden commentary reminded me of The Girl Who Saved the King of Sweden, which is based on the South African Nuclear Programme, and it's a fun book.

[Deleted]

edition.cnn.com/2017/06/06/politics/russian-hackers-planted-fake-news-qatar-crisis/index.html

Now this is interesting:

- Trump meets with Arab leaders
- Around the same time (supposedly) Russian hackers plant a fake address that hits all the right buttons (particularly support for Iran) to make neighbors unhappy with Qatar
- Neighbors isolate Qatar
- Trump claims credit

Of course the rift between Qatar and its neighbors has been simmering for years, and Qatar did provide funding to IS (just like every other state in the region), though part of the issue SA had with Qatar was that it didn't fall in line with Saudi policy to the extent other gulf states did. If true however the current crisis would be a coordinated action between Trump administration and Russians hacking action (the timing is too good to be a coincidence), which sort of makes you wonder about other cases where they coordinated efforts.

Both powers would also have motives for this coordination - on the surface it would provide Saudi more weight among Gulf states, which US may believe would benefit "their" bloc. The Russians may believe that it would rather benefit Iran by pushing those unhappy with Saudi towards it (particularly if they somehow coordinated with Iran as well, which wound't be something new). Also both have legitimate issues with IS, so cutting support for it is still a good reason for either.

[Daten-shi]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qa...-idUSKBN175181

This seems to be the real reason behind the blockade of Qatar. Basically, US and Russia want to be the leaders in LNG production (liquefied natural gas) and share European market, however Qatar has said that they won't give up easily their market share.

Rumors are that Trump and Putin have conspired to break Qatar by creating this crisis.

After all, it was always about money. No body cares about terrorists.

In light of the new revelations about Russian hacking, I'm quoting my previous post Trump said that he won't meddle into the affairs of GCC, giving green light to SA to start the political crisis. Russians implanted the fake news for SA to have an excuse to start the blockade.

There are many players in this crisis and each one has their own agenda.

[telygroar]

Well, qatar was still friendly with iran

[Deleted]

CNN is reporting that this was the result of Russian hacking...

Wut?

I can't even take anything CNN reports serious anymore...

[Alvito]

Yes, Saudi Arabia accusing other countries of supporting terrorism is so fucking ironic.

I have to imagine some of this is just smoke and mirrors to push some agenda.

[Noomz]

Bullshit, political enemies are generally not killed but jailed - the people getting hanged all committed serious crimes mostly drug trafficking.

And yes they have a limited democracy, only select people get to run that's still better than not having a choice at all.

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I swear if my country joins in such a thing I will do something drastic.

Oh they will. They defended SA from Iraq and they will defend SA from Iran.