Parents mourn the loss of their teenage daughter hours after they gave her boyfriend

[Ghostpanther]

Yeah, and somehow people wonder why gun free zones don't work. When in fact, they do serve their purpose. Something like 60% of guns in Chicago come from a few miles outside that gun free zone and something like 95% come from within the surrounding states. None come from within the city itself but of course it doesn't work when you can drive a few miles to get one and there's nothing stopping you from bringing it back.



Yeah, but even mentioning gun regulations gets a spokeman from the NRA shouting about them taking everyone's guns away. At least regulate guns as much as they do driver's licenses in every state and they'd be less of a problem.

Or they would smuggle them across the border. The problems is not access to lawful purchase of firearms, but the millions of firearms not even registered any where or stolen ones. And I think it is not that hard to get a firearm in Chicago if you know who to ask. :P

I would not have any issues with requiring licenses , if all states would recognize said licenses like they do driver licenses. :P

[Cilraaz]

Why the FUCK was it loaded? Fucking idiots...you only ever load a gun if you intend on shooting it. If it went off while he was "trying to put it away," then he's too fucking stupid to even look at a gun. Jesus Christ.

My gun is loaded 24/7. It's a home defense weapon. When I'm not in my home, it's my personal defense weapon. If someone breaks into my house, I don't want to take the time to have to load it in order to protect myself or my wife.

The article linked is light on info. Plenty of others give more. It was a .45 and he had broken it down and rebuilt it prior to shooting.

I'm assuming by the fact that the weapon was "broken down", that it was a semi-automatic. I have no clue how he could have done this without noticing a chambered round. Something doesn't add up there. Just breaking down the weapon alone would have most likely resulted in the chambered round accidentally falling out when the barrel was removed.

[Vash The Stampede]

Reminds me of an episode of Trigun. Also who buys a boyfriend a gun? Especially a loaded gun?

[chazus]

I'm assuming by the fact that the weapon was "broken down", that it was a semi-automatic. I have no clue how he could have done this without noticing a chambered round. Something doesn't add up there. Just breaking down the weapon alone would have most likely resulted in the chambered round accidentally falling out when the barrel was removed.

Thats what I felt too. Like it literally takes more effort to NOT see that, than to see it. Either the articles that stated that are mistaken, or they interpreted something like 'removed the magazine' as 'disassembled the weapon'

[Trassk]

thats horrible, and nobody should be given a gun without proper training. I think gun ownership should be on the same level as army training, if you don't cut it in that you don't get sent to a warzone, so likewise if you don't cut handling a weapon with rigorous training you don't get given one.

also Genn, just to say, paraphrase the titles instead of copying them, mmoc don't have that kinda space for titles.

[Aquinan]

Do you people not know what safeties are?

[Cilraaz]

Thats what I felt too. Like it literally takes more effort to NOT see that, than to see it. Either the articles that stated that are mistaken, or they interpreted something like 'removed the magazine' as 'disassembled the weapon'

That could be likely. A lot of people seem to think removing the magazine disarms a firearm. This is true in the case of some firearms that have a magazine trigger lock, like my wife's LC9s. For many (most?), it's not close to true. It's like the teen who shot himself in the head while livestreaming to Facebook. People mentioned that he didn't have a magazine in the gun, so he put one in and then shot himself. Unless he racked the slide after inserting the magazine (articles I've seen just said "inserted the magazine" and don't mention that he racked the slide), there was already one in the chamber. Somehow it was assumed that just putting the magazine into the firearm is what made it unsafe. There are too many dumb people with guns.

Do you people not know what safeties are?

Not all firearms have safeties. Others don't have slide safeties. My Springfield Armory XDS has a grip safety to attempt to avoid accidental discharges, but when properly gripped, the safety is fully disengaged without manual interaction (other than actually gripping the firearm).

[TITAN308]

I'm all for tests to separate stupid people from guns as long as at the same time we implement identical policies for cars and parents.

[fiestatastic]

There are plenty of things in this world that have caused accidental deaths that don't have required safety courses. While I agree there should be, it probably wouldn't have stopped this. Should we get ovens banned since I'm pretty sure plenty of fires start accidentally due to poor oven use annually.

This is your logic? Go ahead and google accidental oven deaths, and then google accidental firearms deaths .... or try to find statistics on accidental deaths due to ANY other hypothetical cause. Ovens are made for cooking, guns are made for killing animals. The numbers difference shouldn't be surprising, and should make you feel pretty stupid for making that comparison.

Gun training / firearms safety courses should be mandatory before being able to own a gun, but they aren't. Thousands of people get killed every year in accidental shootings, people need to be smarter about that lack of law / regulation, so imo this one is more on the parents that gave a gun as a gift than anyone else. Pretty stupid to give one away as a present and just make the assumption that the recipient knows how to safely use it.

[chazus]

Do you people not know what safeties are?

As Cilraaz mentioned, many guns do not. My Canik TP9v2 has no safety at all. Instead it uses a slide lock, so you have to rack the first round, and it stays open until you hit a thumb switch. After that it's rock and roll, and switches from a heavy, long pull 9lb DA to a light ~5lb SA mode. That heavy 9lb first action effectively lets you chamber a round, and not worry about 'accidental' shots. I don't ever chamber a round unless I intend to fire it within the minute, but that's just me (Actually I don't even keep a magazine in it until Im at the range table, but that's neither here nor there, and just my practice).

[Citizen T]

You made the statement that real one costs more, period. So over 1k for pistol, over 2k for long gun? If I were to link you airsoft pistol for 1500, and AR for 2700 dollars, would that satisfy the comparison?

Not to mention that if my stuff costs more for hobby, while me being relatively poor citizen, then another citizen can surely buy cheaper one for that life and death scenario of yours. That was sort of the whole joke about mentioning price being prohibitive. I'd say it's not, not when some real guns are cheap as dirt.

You're missing the entire point. It's not particularly about the amount of money. How much should it cost to exercise one's right to free speech, free assembly, free press, right of association, to not be forced to testify against oneself, to be free from unreasonable search and seizure? If it requires cost to exercise one right then the government can then extend that such that one must pay to exercise other rights.

In any case the cost for your airsoft guns at 1500/2700 are almost certainly competition level guns not purely hobby. Real guns used for competition level matches with the capability of hitting targets at 1000-2000 yards can cost into 6 figures.

[Azadina]

You're missing the entire point. It's not particularly about the amount of money. How much should it cost to exercise one's right to free speech, free assembly, free press, right of association, to not be forced to testify against oneself, to be free from unreasonable search and seizure? If it requires cost to exercise one right then the government can then extend that such that one must pay to exercise other rights.

In any case the cost for your airsoft guns at 1500/2700 are almost certainly competition level guns not purely hobby. Real guns used for competition level matches with the capability of hitting targets at 1000-2000 yards can cost into 6 figures.

The others you listed are significantly different from tools designed to kill, and that they do in great efficiency. Why on earth should every mentally incapable, or completely untrained person be allowed to own one? The price to own the most basic one for that life and death scenario of yours, is a joke. It's nothing. Why not require license and training?

[Citizen T]

I honestly don't buy that you believe that statement.

The right to bear arms, and ANY right for that matter, is not a demand, or mandatory. You know what you can't do in some countries that don't have that right? You can't buy a gun, at all, no matter how wealthy you are (through legitimate means).

The right simply allows you the opportunity. Just as the first and fifth allow you the opportunity. Just you are unable to do something doesn't mean you are being denied it. That's like telling me that not having money to take the bus to the voting stations is 'denying' you the right to vote.

When the government demands training that costs money and demands money to pay for applications for permits to own/carry firearms then they are placing an undue burden on the citizen. There is no such requirement to exercise any other of our enumerated rights. Many families have firearms that have been handed down generation to generation. They are unable to carry these firearms due to being unable to afford the cost of licensing which in some states can be many hundreds of dollars.

[Ehrenpanzer]

WOWEE the false equivalency is strong with this one.

Though I applaud your creativity by moving away from the idiotic car fallacy.

It's not really a fallacy though is it?

What if they bought him a car instead, and that night to celebrate he got drunk and decided to drive her home, crashes and kills her. Would everyone be screaming to ban cars? or ban alcohol? Or would the blame be put squarely on him for reckless behavior?

[Citizen T]

500 on accident perhaps, but you did forget the other 73.005 deaths that where caused by a fire arm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States

First of all this thread was about an accidental firearm discharge. Secondly the majority of those other deaths are due to suicides. Thirdly the guns didn't kill anyone, the person wielding the firearm did.

[Tyrianth]

It's not really a fallacy though is it?

What if they bought him a car instead, and that night to celebrate he got drunk and decided to drive her home, crashes and kills her. Would everyone be screaming to ban cars? or ban alcohol? Or would the blame be put squarely on him for reckless behavior?

It is a fallacy because cars are vital to modern society. Modern society would get by just fine with strict gun regulations.

You can't compare strict regulations on cars and ovens to strict regulations on firearms.

[Dark-Zarupia]

Why was the loaded in the first place?

[kail]

I'm all for tests to separate stupid people from guns as long as at the same time we implement identical policies for cars and parents.

Well for cars we do. Some states may have shitier tests than others. Same goes for guns possibly. Maybe these standards are better left for the federal government?

[Nathreim]

Even with years of use and training accidental discharges still happen. My uncle is 50 years old has been around guns all his life and went through concealed handgun training and he had an accidental discharge 3 years ago (no one was hit but his ears hurt like hell).

Its not lack of training or stupidity that causes accidents its just a second of carelessness.

[Citizen T]

Please provide proof of such a bold claim. Thanks.

There are about 500 accidental or negligent firearms deaths per year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States

Estimates of defensive uses of firearms range from a low end of 55,000 to 80,000 per year and high end of 4.7 million per year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use