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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Obstruction does not need to be successful to be a crime though. You are arguing that there was no obstruction but the issue is whether there was an attempt at obstruction.
    Bingo. Obstruction is a matter of intent (that's the I word Tribe is referring to, along with a legion of talking head lawyers).

    If a prosecutor can establish that Trump intended to obstruct justice, that's going to send him to the gallows so to speak.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    They have found literally nothing that links trump or his advisers to Russian election tampering. Nothing. There is no obstruction of justice. Hes not under investigation nor did he ask that the investigation be stopped. He said many times go ahead do the investigation see where it leads, he wants to know if anyone of his satellites knew of Russian tampering. But how can you obstruct justice when theres not a single piece of evidence. All communication between Trumps officials and Russian officials was "standard procedure." Except in this case the Russians were being blamed for a turn in the election so any and all communication with them is now considered suspect.

    There has been zero proof brought to the american public the Russia was responsible for the wikileaks information or the Hillary email situation. All we have heard is that they "strongly believe" or "more likely than not" But they cant get a single piece of information that confirms the Russians did something. Meanwhile they got an investigation into basically anyone that worked with Trump prior to him getting in office and if theres even a hint they talked to a Russian official its immediately leaked to the media to push a narrative.

    If the mainstream media wasnt so busy sucking both the liberals and conservatives perspective dicks then maybe instead of sitting in their ivory tower debating news and being one sided opinion heads, they could step into the muck, risk their life to dig up stories about the clintons and their corruption or the DNC and its screwing of bernie sanders. But instead they want to criticize how "Russians" dare interfere with the minds of american voters when the mainstream media does it all the time. And if they did true investigative journalism they would know about the corruption in both the Democratic party and the Republican party but the media wants them to succeed so they dont do good journalism they post stories that are blatantly one sided half truths. They put headlines that are completely out of context. And they make a big deal out of nothing because its anti trump.

    Fact of the matter is alot of people in this country think trump is a bad guy not because hes actually a bad guy but because hes not their guy or because the media has convinced them hes a bad guy. The dude is just trying to do what he thinks is best for the country and hes getting bombed left and right by the media and the courts who arent going to let him do anything. Its the weakest a president has ever been imo, and imo he should stand up to this constant bullying with better constitutional awareness about what his actual powers are.
    No one is saying election tampering. The collusion case has become a full blown financial case plus the usage of the hacked email content.

    People like yourself keep thinking they're being accused of tampering with the machines and votes, which isn't the case and hasn't been for awhile. The claim being made is that members of Trump's campaign used Russian connections to broker deals and launder money into the Republican campaign to fund the huge propaganda and fake news initiatives.

    It wouldn't be Trump going down with that knowing what kind of fucking imbecile he really is. It would be Manafort, Page, Cohen, Flynn, Stone, Kushner, Sessions, and any GOP officials who knowingly laundered the funds. Trump is fucking himself by obstructing the investigation to defend his friends regardless of his own personal innocence or guilt in the actual claims being made.
    Last edited by Bullettime; 2017-06-08 at 09:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Bingo. Obstruction is a matter of intent (that's the I word Tribe is referring to, along with a legion of talking head lawyers).

    If a prosecutor can establish that Trump intended to obstruct justice, that's going to send him to the gallows so to speak.
    Trumpettes are spinning so fast, the could be sold to autistic or ahdh people
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  4. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Look at Kings segment.
    He doesn't believe it, yet he was never asked, never commanded, or directed to.

  5. #665
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    I checked on the Donald earlier. Had a big thread with a headline praising Rubio. How he had redeemed himself.
    When I listened, and read the transcript, it sounded more to me like a man who was building a hard "Russia messed up Narrative. I'll lead us out of it!"
    - Lars

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    So now that Trump has been totally & completed vindicated, as we all heard straight from the 6'8" horse's mouth himself -- now that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither Trump nor anyone in his campaign or associated with him in any way attempted to stop any investigation; that Trump never threatened, persuaded, coerced, or otherwise tried to obstruct justice -- and ultimately that there will be NO impeachment hearings -- now that all of this is firmly planted behind us.. what are all of you going to do? I know today must be a difficult day for most of all, as many of you have spent MONTHS going on and on and on about this fantasy of an impeachment, but I'm truly sorry to say, none of that will end up happening, not now, not ever.

    Hmm, what's that sound? Ahh, that sound, my sweet child, is the sound of your world crashing down around you. It's called reality - and it is finally setting in for you.

    Anyways, since not a single one of you can dispute what I said above, as it's all 100% fact, I'll simply go ahead and ask you this, as it's the only real news that came out of today: What explanation do you think there is of this link between Hillary Clinton and Loretta Lynch? You do all realize that Lynch, attempting to persuade Comey into changing his terminology, when the Clinton campaign had been calling it a "matter" for long before that, is, kind of, y'know.. Illegal, right? You do understand this, yes? That perhaps there was possible - dare I say - collusion going on?

    You realize this means that Tarmac meeting may have been about a little more than grandkids and golf?
    You do realize all of this.. right?
    Saved for future pointing and laughing.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    What's that have to do with what you were talking about? Nothing?
    It is about haters hatin'. People will believe the stories from the echo chamber no matter outlandish. Once a drop of blood is in the water, they are piranha.

  8. #668
    It is absolutely insane to me that people are still trying to defend Trump.

    It's like we are literally living in completely different worlds. How are people so far apart in their perception of base reality that they can't even meet in the middle like this? Like I'm just so confused every day that I can't understand some of my fellow americans on any level.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    I checked on the Donald earlier. Had a big thread with a headline praising Rubio. How he had redeemed himself.
    When I listened, and read the transcript, it sounded more to me like a man who was building a hard "Russia messed up Narrative. I'll lead us out of it!"
    Rubio has a unique position that allows him to ride the fence and fall onto whichever side turns out to be the "right" one. So confused why they're praising him. If anything, he was a neutral left today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by vondevon View Post
    You keep pulling videos from before the testimony, and I can only presume it's because Comey's testimony today pretty handily defeats whatever narrative you're trying to push #shrug
    What really gets me is that it's not clear that Stacyrect understands that the video he linked was from before the testimony.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    So now that Trump has been totally & completed vindicated, as we all heard straight from the 6'8" horse's mouth himself -- now that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither Trump nor anyone in his campaign or associated with him in any way attempted to stop any investigation; that Trump never threatened, persuaded, coerced, or otherwise tried to obstruct justice -- and ultimately that there will be NO impeachment hearings -- now that all of this is firmly planted behind us.. what are all of you going to do? I know today must be a difficult day for most of all, as many of you have spent MONTHS going on and on and on about this fantasy of an impeachment, but I'm truly sorry to say, none of that will end up happening, not now, not ever.

    Hmm, what's that sound? Ahh, that sound, my sweet child, is the sound of your world crashing down around you. It's called reality - and it is finally setting in for you.

    Anyways, since not a single one of you can dispute what I said above, as it's all 100% fact, I'll simply go ahead and ask you this, as it's the only real news that came out of today: What explanation do you think there is of this link between Hillary Clinton and Loretta Lynch? You do all realize that Lynch, attempting to persuade Comey into changing his terminology, when the Clinton campaign had been calling it a "matter" for long before that, is, kind of, y'know.. Illegal, right? You do understand this, yes? That perhaps there was possible - dare I say - collusion going on?

    You realize this means that Tarmac meeting may have been about a little more than grandkids and golf?
    You do realize all of this.. right?
    Is this a serious post...did you even listen to the testimony...

  12. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    There are a LOT of dissenting opinions to Dershowitz, I particularly take issue with his commentary in his opinion piece today where he stated it is appropriate for a sitting president to interfere in a federal investigation. "Just as the president would have had the constitutional power to pardon Flynn and thus end the criminal investigation of him, he certainly had the authority to request the director of the FBI to end his investigation of Flynn." There is a lot of legal support for the idea that such actions indicate obstruction, undermine our system of checks and balances and raise ethical questions regarding the scope of the office.

    Also the Silver Fox looks sexy AF here, too bad he's gay.
    They would have a point if the president himself was under investigation and was actively trying to abuse his constitutional authority to subvert investigations of himself. This isn't the case. Trump isn't under investigation. Trump is the president, has constitutional authority and discretion to direct the FBI director as he is managed by the executive branch. He didn't order, command, or otherwise ask Comey in any fashion, even Comey himself asserts this. Say Flynn gets charged with a crime as a result of some investigation. Trump could pardon him, still wouldn't be obstruction.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    It is absolutely insane to me that people are still trying to defend Trump.

    It's like we are literally living in completely different worlds. How are people so far apart in their perception of base reality that they can't even meet in the middle like this? Like I'm just so confused every day that I can't understand some of my fellow americans on any level.
    Cognitive dissonance.

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Bah, that's still not happening. The Obstruction of Justice issue, however major, is still a sideshow. I mean sure it might get you rid of Trump and that is important.

    Getting rid of part of the system of money laundering set up by Russian Oligarches through New York real estate though is vastly more important.
    And that's where all of this will lead. It's entirely possible that Trump himself will see jail time from the NY AG's investigation. RICO is a very powerful tool for prosecutors.

  15. #675
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    Daily reminder, it doesnt matter he Donnie did something criminal, just makes it easier to kick him out. Presidents are held to a different legal standard anyway -- lot of stuff overlooked, smaller stuff might get them in a lot of trouble.

    The impeachment process doesn't require that something criminal has taken place either.

    What we do have have, and thats just from what can be said in public, is testimony from a credible source that Donnie was up to some fuckery.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  16. #676
    Deleted
    Ahhh...what a great day to be coming back from my latest 2 week "vacation".

    The sky is blue, birds are happily singing, and the entire narrative from the anti-Trumpers has been laid to waste.

    Let's recap, shall we?

    Wednesday 06/07/2017

    The Director of the NSA empathically states: "In the three-plus years that I have been the director of the National Security Agency, to the best of my recollection, I have never been directed to do anything I believe to be illegal, immoral, unethical or inappropriate".

    The Director of National Intelligence states: "I've never been pressured, never felt pressure to intervene or interfere in any way with shaping intelligence in a political way or in relationship to ongoing investigations."

    Whaaaaaat? No strongarm tactics from Trump, trying to quash the "Russia" investigation? Whaaaaaaat?

    Thursday 06/08/2017

    FORMER FBI Driector James Comey testifies that PRESIDENT Donald J. Trump is not - and has never been - under ANY type of investigation either a criminal or counter-intelligence. Comey completely vindicates Trump's "thanks for telling me " tweet.

    Now, for those of you who actually took the time to read Comey's prepared testimony, instead of relying on the "fake news" (BTW - you did see that Comey again vindicated Trump by saying that many reports in the NY Times were bullshit.....right?) let's break down what he actually said:

    1) Trump wanted loyalty.

    So what? He didn't ask for fealty. Big difference. After all of the leaks that had already started he wanted to know if Comey was someone he could trust and be loyal to Office of the President. Turned out, he was right to ask - as soon as Comey got fired he started leaking.

    2) Trump wanted him to not investigate Flynn

    Trump asked Comey to cut Flynn some slack. So what? They both agreed that Flynn is actually a good guy! Regardless, Trump did not bring it up again, Comey makes no further reference to it- so Trump DID NOT pressure Comey. He asked him one time - and that was on 02/14/2017. Comey was not fired until TWO MONTHS later.

    3) Trump wanted "the cloud" about Russia removed

    Comey had told Trump 3 times that he was under NO investigation, yet the media - and the anti-Trumpers - were running rampant every day INSINUATING that Trump was in bed with Russia (in other words, nothing but CONSPIRACY theories) so he asked Comey: "Hey, you have told me 3 times that I am not under ANY kind of investigation - would you please tell THAT to the MSM so they can SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!

    And that is it - and nothing else. Nada. Zilch. Zippy.

    The Russian wall that the anti-Trumpers have been building has lost a few bricks and is about to come tumbling down on their heads. No worries - President Trump has you covered. He is getting ready to build a new "wall". A beautiful "wall". The Trump admin is currently in the 2nd of 3 rounds of the bidding process. Moving along quite nicely.

    Trump 2020! Making America Great Again!

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Stacyrect View Post
    They would have a point if the president himself was under investigation and was actively trying to abuse his constitutional authority to subvert investigations of himself. This isn't the case. Trump isn't under investigation. Trump is the president, has constitutional authority and discretion to direct the FBI director as he is managed by the executive branch. He didn't order, command, or otherwise ask Comey in any fashion, even Comey himself asserts this. Say Flynn gets charged with a crime as a result of some investigation. Trump could pardon him, still wouldn't be obstruction.
    You clearly didn't listen to Comey's testimony. He said he wasn't ordered or commanded to do so but the statements made in the context they were made could be taken as trying to influence him.

    Say you're a shift manager at a job and you witness another manager doing something totally wrong and you go up the line with it. If your boss pulls you aside one on one and asks if you like your job and starts telling you how great of an employee that other manager is and it'd be a shame if something happened to them, that can still be taken as trying to influence you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Stacyrect View Post
    They would have a point if the president himself was under investigation and was actively trying to abuse his constitutional authority to subvert investigations of himself. This isn't the case. Trump isn't under investigation. Trump is the president, has constitutional authority and discretion to direct the FBI director as he is managed by the executive branch. He didn't order, command, or otherwise ask Comey in any fashion, even Comey himself asserts this. Say Flynn gets charged with a crime as a result of some investigation. Trump could pardon him, still wouldn't be obstruction.
    That is correct, he didn't overtly order or command. And you're correct that pardoning would not constitute obstruction. But Comey's testimony was this:

    He then said, “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.” I replied only that “he is a good guy.” . . . I had understood the President to be requesting that we drop any investigation of Flynn in connection with false statements about his conversations with the Russian ambassador in December.
    Considering these statements and Trump's follow-up about loyalty, I do not think that Comey's interpretation of Trump's statements to be unreasonable.

  19. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stacyrect View Post
    They would have a point if the president himself was under investigation and was actively trying to abuse his constitutional authority to subvert investigations of himself. This isn't the case. Trump isn't under investigation. Trump is the president, has constitutional authority and discretion to direct the FBI director as he is managed by the executive branch. He didn't order, command, or otherwise ask Comey in any fashion, even Comey himself asserts this. Say Flynn gets charged with a crime as a result of some investigation. Trump could pardon him, still wouldn't be obstruction.
    At some point, after the bars shut close on Trump, you may find some free time to go back and actually read Comey's testimony. When you do, you'll see that Comey said almost exactly the opposite of what you're claiming. He also reiterated the point that Trump himself admitted to another instance of Obstruction - Comey got a two-fer. Trump fired Comey for the Russia investigation (Trump's words, not read into official Congressional Record - a fact you seem to ignore) and then Comey's testimony/notes regarding Trump privately asking Comey to drop the Flynn investigation.

    But enjoy your delusional spin for now - it's all you'll have later.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Ahhh...what a great day to be coming back from my latest 2 week "vacation".

    The sky is blue, birds are happily singing, and the entire narrative from the anti-Trumpers has been laid to waste.

    Let's recap, shall we?

    Wednesday 06/07/2017

    The Director of the NSA empathically states: "In the three-plus years that I have been the director of the National Security Agency, to the best of my recollection, I have never been directed to do anything I believe to be illegal, immoral, unethical or inappropriate".

    The Director of National Intelligence states: "I've never been pressured, never felt pressure to intervene or interfere in any way with shaping intelligence in a political way or in relationship to ongoing investigations."

    Whaaaaaat? No strongarm tactics from Trump, trying to quash the "Russia" investigation? Whaaaaaaat?

    Thursday 06/08/2017

    FORMER FBI Driector James Comey testifies that PRESIDENT Donald J. Trump is not - and has never been - under ANY type of investigation either a criminal or counter-intelligence. Comey completely vindicates Trump's "thanks for telling me " tweet.

    Now, for those of you who actually took the time to read Comey's prepared testimony, instead of relying on the "fake news" (BTW - you did see that Comey again vindicated Trump by saying that many reports in the NY Times were bullshit.....right?) let's break down what he actually said:

    1) Trump wanted loyalty.

    So what? He didn't ask for fealty. Big difference. After all of the leaks that had already started he wanted to know if Comey was someone he could trust and be loyal to Office of the President. Turned out, he was right to ask - as soon as Comey got fired he started leaking.

    2) Trump wanted him to not investigate Flynn

    Trump asked Comey to cut Flynn some slack. So what? They both agreed that Flynn is actually a good guy! Regardless, Trump did not bring it up again, Comey makes no further reference to it- so Trump DID NOT pressure Comey. He asked him one time - and that was on 02/14/2017. Comey was not fired until TWO MONTHS later.

    3) Trump wanted "the cloud" about Russia removed

    Comey had told Trump 3 times that he was under NO investigation, yet the media - and the anti-Trumpers - were running rampant every day INSINUATING that Trump was in bed with Russia (in other words, nothing but CONSPIRACY theories) so he asked Comey: "Hey, you have told me 3 times that I am not under ANY kind of investigation - would you please tell THAT to the MSM so they can SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!

    And that is it - and nothing else. Nada. Zilch. Zippy.

    The Russian wall that the anti-Trumpers have been building has lost a few bricks and is about to come tumbling down on their heads. No worries - President Trump has you covered. He is getting ready to build a new "wall". A beautiful "wall". The Trump admin is currently in the 2nd of 3 rounds of the bidding process. Moving along quite nicely.

    Trump 2020! Making America Great Again!
    Oh look! I was missing you.
    Not really, i just wanted a good laugh...obstruction of justice is a real thing, just as kamala harris stated.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



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