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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    Exorsus rogues mentioned that for progression, Assa remains the best. Easy af for progression, not obsessed with rng, not needed to stay from behind, also relies less on legos(however for nerds of such level legos are not the problem). Sub is useful for 2-3 bosses and garbage overall. But nothing matters because right now they are nerfing tier sets but not showing class buffs etc.
    So nothing is set in stone until 13th where they finally(hopefully)will bake in all dem changes

    UPD Inb4 hate-I'm just a simple person who mained sub rogue of all specs as a raid alt most of the contents and love what they done now. I am not calling anyone to play assa-in fact, currently everyone who cares call me to play assa :<
    sub loses like 2% dmg if it's NEVER behind the target(not counting parries etc, cos that affects everyone equally)
    so that's kindof an exaggeration :P

    i dont really see a reason why sub wouldnt be great on any of the bossfights
    what makes it "garbage" exactly?

    it might be the single best spec out of any dps spec(not just rogues) for hajatar for example (due to new Sstorm+evis mechanics)
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2017-06-09 at 01:31 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanix View Post
    This, always.
    Especially those in normal and heroic runs...

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Especially those in normal and heroic runs...
    "Play whatever you like" is the best way to run normal and heroic modes forever, indeed.

  4. #24
    We need to see how all specs will scale up with new gear and sets but the nerf on the garbage sin tier is absurd.

    Seems like nobody at blizzard team plays rogue at all everyone there play mage/dk/lock.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    sub loses like 2% dmg if it's NEVER behind the target(not counting parries etc, cos that affects everyone equally)
    so that's kindof an exaggeration :P

    i dont really see a reason why sub wouldnt be great on any of the bossfights
    what makes it "garbage" exactly?

    it might be the single best spec out of any dps spec(not just rogues) for hajatar for example (due to new Sstorm+evis mechanics)
    The person who stated that is Teyka, and his position was that, progression-wise, there is only 2, 3 at max fights where Sstorm+Evis will be profitable, and in everything else assa just for being an easier spec with the same output. We all know how hard sub punishes for mistakes in DPS terms. It's easy to overlook or miss something under the pressure. Not with assa thou
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    It forces you to double tap. that's it. It's a great change.
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    It's just so you can say you tapped something twice that day.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    The person who stated that is Teyka, and his position was that, progression-wise, there is only 2, 3 at max fights where Sstorm+Evis will be profitable, and in everything else assa just for being an easier spec with the same output. We all know how hard sub punishes for mistakes in DPS terms. It's easy to overlook or miss something under the pressure. Not with assa thou
    but the math disagrees with him on the "same output" part

    even in pure ST circumstances sub is better than assa by a significant margin atm(on the ptr that is)

    but then again, throwing numbers around is just idiotic at this point
    noone can know for sure what spec will be the best in raw dps because blizzard can change stuff on a whim

    as for the easier part, once it's in your muscle memory they're about the same difficulty, sub loses a lot of micromanagement(like flickering shadows, shoulders bug etc) that make it such a hassle on progression, so i dont think there will be problems in that department

    we'll see on wednesday how things stand and we can go from there

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanix View Post
    "Play whatever you like" is the best way to run normal and heroic modes forever, indeed.
    There are every single spec and classes killing mythic bosses in current tier. And there is not that big of difference unless we cherry pick or compare everything to broken aff locks.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    There are every single spec and classes killing mythic bosses in current tier. And there is not that big of difference unless we cherry pick or compare everything to broken aff locks.
    Agreed, unless you are in a top guild and aiming for fast progress, but I think this is not the case for the majority so yeah you can pretty much play the spec you feel more comfortable and still do a decent amount of dps unless you have rotation problems.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by rackoon View Post
    Agreed, unless you are in a top guild and aiming for fast progress, but I think this is not the case for the majority so yeah you can pretty much play the spec you feel more comfortable and still do a decent amount of dps unless you have rotation problems.
    But it is mmo champ Everyone here is top 2 world second guild in the universe. Nobody do content for scrubs, unless for laughs like normal or heroics. Everyone here is clearing mythic day one.

    On a serious note - Mythic + need a lot more right class/spec managment than mythic raids.

  10. #30
    My prediction is more that Assassin rogues will still be best for bursting high health priority targets, Subt for sustained consistent dmg and Outlaw for good old RNG goodness.

    Honestly, for prog, I would still say Sin and Subt are the go too spec. I wouldn't be surprised if in overall sin did less dps than subt, but like i say, Sin is very good and bursting high health priority targets. Subt now has that issue of target switching due to nightblade giving you 15% dmg buff that for trash killing, switching targets is very meh. However Subt will be very good at translating adds into direct boss dmg due to SS changes. I would say be able to play both Sin and Subt so you can switch to suit what works best for each boss.

    But if you don't want to be good at both specs then just sit on Sin. its way easier than Subt to perform correctly and provides important bursting and or phase pushing through vendetta KB burst window.

    As for M+, Outlaw. Maybe some affix Subt / Key difficulty will be better.... but Last would be sin. Wouldn't say its the worst M+ spec ever but for low keys, it will def not be anything amazing.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrubRouge View Post
    My prediction is more that Assassin rogues will still be best for bursting high health priority targets, Subt for sustained consistent dmg and Outlaw for good old RNG goodness.

    Honestly, for prog, I would still say Sin and Subt are the go too spec. I wouldn't be surprised if in overall sin did less dps than subt, but like i say, Sin is very good and bursting high health priority targets. Subt now has that issue of target switching due to nightblade giving you 15% dmg buff that for trash killing, switching targets is very meh. However Subt will be very good at translating adds into direct boss dmg due to SS changes. I would say be able to play both Sin and Subt so you can switch to suit what works best for each boss.

    But if you don't want to be good at both specs then just sit on Sin. its way easier than Subt to perform correctly and provides important bursting and or phase pushing through vendetta KB burst window.

    As for M+, Outlaw. Maybe some affix Subt / Key difficulty will be better.... but Last would be sin. Wouldn't say its the worst M+ spec ever but for low keys, it will def not be anything amazing.
    sub with dark shadows talent (dance giving 30% dmg) is very good at bursting targets
    it's not like assa doesnt need 3 dots rolling to start doing damage
    and you can just apply a 1-2 cp NB before going to town on the target

    for "trash killing" you can just use the cloak with the extra 30% dmg and do insane AOE burst on the trash

    and outlaw is barely RNG anymore btw. it's very consistent
    assa is more RNG on the PTR than outlaw is.
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2017-06-09 at 03:13 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrubRouge View Post
    My prediction is more that Assassin rogues will still be best for bursting high health priority targets, Subt for sustained consistent dmg and Outlaw for good old RNG goodness.

    Honestly, for prog, I would still say Sin and Subt are the go too spec. I wouldn't be surprised if in overall sin did less dps than subt, but like i say, Sin is very good and bursting high health priority targets. Subt now has that issue of target switching due to nightblade giving you 15% dmg buff that for trash killing, switching targets is very meh. However Subt will be very good at translating adds into direct boss dmg due to SS changes. I would say be able to play both Sin and Subt so you can switch to suit what works best for each boss.

    But if you don't want to be good at both specs then just sit on Sin. its way easier than Subt to perform correctly and provides important bursting and or phase pushing through vendetta KB burst window.

    As for M+, Outlaw. Maybe some affix Subt / Key difficulty will be better.... but Last would be sin. Wouldn't say its the worst M+ spec ever but for low keys, it will def not be anything amazing.
    what are you on about sub having issues target switching? sin has 3 dots and sub has 1 with a now reduced need to put it up. and on top of that, the new changes with the new sub legendary + mantle basically seals the deal on who is going to be doing the most burst.

    dark shadow +30% increased damage during dance
    symbols of death +15% increased damage for 10 seconds
    NEW SUB LEGENDARY: For 5 sec after activating Symbols of Death, Shadowstrike generates 3 additional combo points and Backstab generates 4 additional combo points.
    put these all together in a mantle buff and GG
    Last edited by Djanco; 2017-06-09 at 03:24 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Djanco View Post
    what are you on about sub having issues target switching? sin has 3 dots and sub has 1 with a now reduced need to put it up. and on top of that, the new changes with the new sub legendary + mantle basically seals the deal on who is going to be doing the most burst.

    dark shadow +30% increased damage during dance
    symbols of death +15% increased damage for 10 seconds
    NEW SUB LEGENDARY: For 5 sec after activating Symbols of Death, Shadowstrike generates 3 additional combo points and Backstab generates 4 additional combo points.
    put these all together in a mantle buff and GG
    Yeah for sure. I totally blanked on that. but I still have a feeling that in a large health pool add (like prog M Augur "Thing that should not be") I feel as though a vendetta combo would deal greater burst.
    No doubt what you talked about will be far greater for bursting things like Big Gul'dan Eyes and things like that.

  14. #34
    right now sub is great for mythic guldan as you can always get a flickering shadows off for eyes and get huge burst using mantle+dreadlord's deceit. i'm dumping on the other 2 rogues in my guild and they are both sin. another thing that's nice is being able to stick on gul'dan during the pull where all the other melee have to spend a second or 3 running back
    Last edited by Djanco; 2017-06-09 at 03:49 AM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Djanco View Post
    right now sub is great for mythic guldan as you can always get a flickering shadows off for eyes and get huge burst using mantle+dreadlord's deceit. i'm dumping on the other 2 rogues in my guild and they are both sin. another thing that's nice is being able to stick on gul'dan during the pull where all the other melee have to spend a second or 3 running back
    yeah and im sure the two assa rogues are dumping you in boss dmg :P
    everyone has their role


    Yeah for sure. I totally blanked on that. but I still have a feeling that in a large health pool add (like prog M Augur "Thing that should not be") I feel as though a vendetta combo would deal greater burst.
    there's not many of those around tho is there?
    and sub will still be totally good for that, two 30% dmg dances during the extra 25% dmg from symbols(with setbonus) is a lot of dmg
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2017-06-09 at 04:05 AM.

  16. #36
    I've never had as much fun as a Rogue in a while as I have in M+ right now as sub. I am super excited about the changes since now we'll go from very good AOE to excellent with shoulders/cloak for trash. Plus the burst will be really nice for quick dying mobs and quick clears. Super excited.

    As for mythic raiding, I might hang on to Sin just to see how it feels while we quickly clear heroic TOS. Then once again once I have my 4 set. I have a feeling while the bleeds are dull, they'll have the most consistent ST scale over longer fights keeping us within our niche.

    Outlaw seems nice and overall meters might be better but people forget one important thing -- it's not about which spec's damage outperforms the other even in real world scenarios. It's about what role we'll fill and how well we will fill it. Sure, outlaw can blow out sin but if sin tops ST and boss dmg, there will be a huge need for us in raids especially since most classes can simply top charts, cheese and AOE more efficiently for the sake of progression. Or there is an obundance even if we're up there with the rest.

    There's always room for a sin Rogue who can transition the boss or stick for beating enrages.
    Spike Flail - US Mal'Ganis | Currently 11/11 M | Art by ElyPop

  17. #37
    If Assass is not simming ahead of the other 2 on ST it will literally *NEVER* be played, by anyone. This is a spec with a serious barrier to target switching (even with AP gone, you still have 3 DoTs + KB + Vendetta, all target debuffs), ramp-up time, not particularly huge burst (once 7.2.5 hits, I know it can burst hard now but the playstyle will be different in ToS), and the worst AoE in the game. Literally all it's good for is tunneling the boss and putting up good numbers doing it. If Outlaw or Sub can come even close to it, people are going to switch to those for AoE/flexibility as soon as they can.
    Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubruts View Post
    Not entirely accurate, there's some information out there to make a general assumption which is what he's asking for. Tier sets and legendary sims obtained from the Rogue discord channel puts outlaw as top damage output, followed by Sub and Assas as last. Now this is pure damage sim, you have to take into account which spec has more room for mistake in rotation and game mechanics. Or how well Sub will perform with all the new changes. I should also say damage is very close on all 3 specs don't be surprise if people decide to stay assasination for pve.
    This is wrong. Current sims put the order in Sub>Assassination>Outlaw

    Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1861867809

    Stop spreading misinformation.

  19. #39
    Are sub rogues even good at ctf in PvP?
    -video removed-

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2017-06-11 at 12:19 AM.

  20. #40
    Pre 7.2.5 Sub rogue is not there for the damage alone but for the control and mobility. Just take 1 good fury warrior/dh and put a good sub rogue in a bg at his side. The rogue fucks up the healer while warr/dh destroy flag carries or just the other lonely heal or what ever ist just there.
    With 7.2.5 Sub will get a nice burst build and can kill people like the others again hopefully.
    Last edited by Critical92; 2017-06-10 at 08:35 PM.

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