Do you care about the Void Lords at all?

[Kynario]

You don't know enough about them yet to care about them or not. It's gonna be Blizz's job to reveal through content why you should.

Very well said!

I agree. Indeed, it'll be Blizzards job to convince us via in-game storytelling why we should care.

Not really no. I care about them, as much as I cared about Amon in Starcraft, which is to say; not a lot, if any at all. And Amon is basically a Void Lord...

Exactly lol. Amon wasn't scary at all... Great example of a "big bad" that no one really cared about that much...

[Qualia]

We've known since BC that Void creatures were just as essential to the existence of the universe as the Void itself. They should keep that rule with the Void Lords. They shouldn't just be another world-destroying baddy to defeat. They should be the ultimate enemy. Unable to be destroyed or completely defeated, but still able to be kept in check and prevented from overwhelming the universe. The Void Lords should be truly essential to existence.

Umm, sorry, but no. The bolded part is headcanon you've got there. With all respect, feel free to show me if there were any trust-worthy quote that I missed.

[Aliven]

And Ner'zhul's portals were powerful enough to rip the planet apart in a few moments. Dimensius' portals' power were nowhere near that (presumably, seeing that both the Ethereal's homeworld and the unnamed world in Tuure's lore were standing long enough while the Ethereal fought Dimensius' force to a standstill). It was just that their side effect (spreading Void and Arcane energy around the planet) are harmful over time. In fact, he likely couldn't even open all those portals at once, seeing that there were no mention of it and he never managed to do so while facing us.

Opening multiple portals over time is above normal mages' level, but isn't really something that exceptionally powerful when we are talking about the top batters. In comparison, for example, a single portal of Illidan contained a force powerful enough to rip a continent apart - and I wouldn't even put Illidan in the "top batter" category yet.

So, single minion of void lords was enough to obliterate life on planet (etherals should be dead, but arcane magic mutagen i guess...). One guy. Blob. Whatever.

As far as i know mages cant open portals to void realm. Or light realm. Or arcane realms. Dimensions. Whatever.

Also, Draenor was seriously unstable after Dark Portal opened.

[Deleted]

The general rule to good storytelling is to create interesting characters and torture them for 300 pages. Blizzard has been wildly successful in creating interesting characters. The Void Lords though.... Does anyone really care about them? They seem pretty uninteresting to me.

Its double edge.

It can be underwhelming(if they follow the tradional pace).

OR;

Void Lords are so crazily shaped and powerful, thats its facinating. Think if they just went complete crazy, dramatic and the lore took different direction(almost like they erase current major charactors, Azeroth etc. and we start somewhere else). Would be insane.

[Explorer]

This whine goes from same people who are too lazy both to dig into lore of wc universe and into its cultural sources. Duckling syndrome: stick with who\whatever was shown first and deny everything that came later.
Old gods, meanwhile, didn't come from nowhere, they came from Howard Phillips Lovecraft. And there, Old Ones as well as in Warcraft, were spawns and creations of the Outer Gods, who live outside the boundaries of the physical universe and are a force of pure chaos and nothingness. That's exactly what the Void Lords are. So, their introduction is all but logical.
As Keepers (and Avatar) are creations of the Titans (Sargeras respectively) who bear their image and powers, so are Old Gods are creations of Void Lords, their image and powers.
So, I see them as darker and creepier, more tentaculous versions of the Old Gods. And as and Old God is several times stronger than any Keeper, so any Void Lord is several times stronger than any Titan. Azeroth might be the only exception.

[Qualia]

So, single minion of void lords was enough to obliterate life on planet (etherals should be dead, but arcane magic mutagen i guess...). One guy. Blob. Whatever.

As far as i know mages cant open portals to void realm. Or light realm. Or arcane realms. Dimensions. Whatever.

Also, Draenor was seriously unstable after Dark Portal opened.

Well, firstly, Twisting Nether is another dimension existing outside all physical universe, so that's at least one dimension that mages can open portals to. Secondly, I don't know about the Light, but spellcasters - with a wide range of power level (instead of just the more powerful ones) - have shown the ability to open the portal to the Void without much difficulty. From the powerful Void Revenant such as Xul'horac, to the lowly Shadowmoon orcs - who are random mooks - can open portals to the void to let the void creatures (void beasts, void horror, void remnants, etc.) and void energies through in WoD. Seeing that even Shadowmoon orcs can open those portals, I'd say it's safe to assume that mages can as well, just that normally there isn't any reason to do so (what's for? There is nothing useful inside the void).

Additionally, leaving alone and giving time, pretty much every powerful enough creatures can "obliterate life on planet". Case in point: a single unnamed Eredar spellcaster removed all life on a planet and ripped its surface apart with one single spell - that's way more impressive than wiping life out indirectly by opening a bunch of portal and wait for the energies to spread around. Sure, opening enough portals to kill all living beings isn't too bad, but in the scale of what we've seen and fought against, it's hardly something top-tier - evidently as we already fought and defeated Dimensius with just our TBC selves and a group of Ethereal. Nearly Sargeras' level? Kil'Jaeden could do the same and he was said to be as an ant compared to Sargeras, Dimensius' achievements hardly put him anywhere near Sargeras. I meant, Dimensius is just a fragment of a Void Lord - Sargeras found the Void Lords themselves and didn't even consider them as much of a threat as the Void Titan (although he did consider them way more powerful than demons back then).

So all in all, power-wise, the force of the Void need a lot more hype to replace the blank spot the Legion is going to leave soon.

So, I see them as darker and creepier, more tentaculous versions of the Old Gods. And as and Old God is several times stronger than any Keeper, so any Void Lord is several times stronger than any Titan. Azeroth might be the only exception.

I don't agree that it works like that. If we are going by that logic, Kil'Jaeden & Archimonde who were empowered by Sargeras are more powerful than any Old Gods individually (at least the OGs we know of). Does that mean Sargeras is more powerful than the VL? No, it doesn't. It's not like KJ, the Keepers, the Old Gods are empowered in the same scale in regards to their creators or empowerer (i.e: all of them got 1/100 power of their masters) and thus, we can't judge the difference in power of the masters based on their minions.

[Elim Garak]

What do they drop?

[Deleted]

Not until they bring them into the game.

[Mehrunes]

This whine goes from same people who are too lazy both to dig into lore of wc universe and into its cultural sources. Duckling syndrome: stick with who\whatever was shown first and deny everything that came later.
Old gods, meanwhile, didn't come from nowhere, they came from Howard Phillips Lovecraft. And there, Old Ones as well as in Warcraft, were spawns and creations of the Outer Gods, who live outside the boundaries of the physical universe and are a force of pure chaos and nothingness. That's exactly what the Void Lords are. So, their introduction is all but logical.

*Talks about laziness about cultural sources* *Doesn't realize that Old Gods of Warcraft aren't created solely after the Great Old Ones of C'thulu mythos, but the Outer Gods as well, with Yogg-Saron being a reference to the co-ruler of the Outer Gods* Fascinating post.

[Aucald]

Greater scope villains are a fantasy staple, so I'm not going begrudge moving past Sargeras or the Legion as the primary antagonist - I don't personally want the game or the story to end so further cultivation is needed to ensure that doesn't happen. The hope is that the story of the new villain matches or eclipses the one that came before.

[Aliven]

Well, firstly, Twisting Nether is another dimension existing outside all physical universe, so that's at least one dimension that mages can open portals to. Secondly, I don't know about the Light, but spellcasters - with a wide range of power level (instead of just the more powerful ones) - have shown the ability to open the portal to the Void without much difficulty. From the powerful Void Revenant such as Xul'horac, to the lowly Shadowmoon orcs - who are random mooks - can open portals to the void to let the void creatures (void beasts, void horror, void remnants, etc.) and void energies through in WoD. Seeing that even Shadowmoon orcs can open those portals, I'd say it's safe to assume that mages can as well, just that normally there isn't any reason to do so (what's for? There is nothing useful inside the void).

Additionally, leaving alone and giving time, pretty much every powerful enough creatures can "obliterate life on planet". Case in point: a single unnamed Eredar spellcaster removed all life on a planet and ripped its surface apart with one single spell - that's way more impressive than wiping life out indirectly by opening a bunch of portal and wait for the energies to spread around. Sure, opening enough portals to kill all living beings isn't too bad, but in the scale of what we've seen and fought against, it's hardly something top-tier - evidently as we already fought and defeated Dimensius with just our TBC selves and a group of Ethereal. Nearly Sargeras' level? Kil'Jaeden could do the same and he was said to be as an ant compared to Sargeras, Dimensius' achievements hardly put him anywhere near Sargeras. I meant, Dimensius is just a fragment of a Void Lord - Sargeras found the Void Lords themselves and didn't even consider them as much of a threat as the Void Titan (although he did consider them way more powerful than demons back then).

So all in all, power-wise, the force of the Void need a lot more hype to replace the blank spot the Legion is going to leave soon.

I forgot about shadowmoon.

So why KJ dont wipe azeroth clean? Instead he is warping star destroyers?

- - - Updated - - -

What do they drop?

Tears
/10char

[Explorer]

Well, firstly, Twisting Nether is another dimension existing outside all physical universe, so that's at least one dimension that mages can open portals to. Secondly, I don't know about the Light, but spellcasters - with a wide range of power level (instead of just the more powerful ones) - have shown the ability to open the portal to the Void without much difficulty. From the powerful Void Revenant such as Xul'horac, to the lowly Shadowmoon orcs - who are random mooks - can open portals to the void to let the void creatures (void beasts, void horror, void remnants, etc.) and void energies through in WoD. Seeing that even Shadowmoon orcs can open those portals, I'd say it's safe to assume that mages can as well, just that normally there isn't any reason to do so (what's for? There is nothing useful inside the void).

Additionally, leaving alone and giving time, pretty much every powerful enough creatures can "obliterate life on planet". Case in point: a single unnamed Eredar spellcaster removed all life on a planet and ripped its surface apart with one single spell - that's way more impressive than wiping life out indirectly by opening a bunch of portal and wait for the energies to spread around. Sure, opening enough portals to kill all living beings isn't too bad, but in the scale of what we've seen and fought against, it's hardly something top-tier - evidently as we already fought and defeated Dimensius with just our TBC selves and a group of Ethereal. Nearly Sargeras' level? Kil'Jaeden could do the same and he was said to be as an ant compared to Sargeras, Dimensius' achievements hardly put him anywhere near Sargeras. I meant, Dimensius is just a fragment of a Void Lord - Sargeras found the Void Lords themselves and didn't even consider them as much of a threat as the Void Titan (although he did consider them way more powerful than demons back then).

So all in all, power-wise, the force of the Void need a lot more hype to replace the blank spot the Legion is going to leave soon.


I don't agree that it works like that. If we are going by that logic, Kil'Jaeden & Archimonde who were empowered by Sargeras are more powerful than any Old Gods individually (at least the OGs we know of). Does that mean Sargeras is more powerful than the VL? No, it doesn't. It's not like KJ, the Keepers, the Old Gods are empowered in the same scale in regards to their creators or empowerer (i.e: all of them got 1/100 power of their masters) and thus, we can't judge the difference in power of the masters based on their minions.

Didn't get it, honestly. Firstly, from were did you get a clue that KJ or Arch are more powerful than any OG? Have they ever fought in any manner? For now I know zero evidence to that.
Secondly, Eredar Lords are supposed to be somewhat stronger than Keepers or the Avatar. The later are constructs that had to powers and existence of their own prior to their creation. Eredar lords were already powerful mages, and got additional amplification.
Still, I see no facts that would set them too far from any other creatures of their set, like Azshara, Lich King, Lei Shen or Keepers. They are all killable by comparable groups of raiders. That's a lore truth - Archimonde was beaten to death by mortals. Period. And he could do nothing to stop them, even in his own domain. Even LK was able to oneshot us all. Okay, now we got stronger, so probably he would take us same effort.
Really tired of that overestimation of these characters. We are less than 2 weeks away from looting the mighty Kil'Jaeden.

[dokilar]

feels like a rip off from starcraft...just my opinion though

[Qualia]

I forgot about shadowmoon.

So why KJ dont wipe azeroth clean? Instead he is warping star destroyers?

That question has been brought up a few times not just with KJ but Archimonde as well, but I don't believe we get any official hint or answer for it yet. Best guess would just be a case of Plot-Induced-Stupidity since otherwise, there wouldn't be a story for us to follow. If we are really pushed for a lore explanation, then I'd guess that maybe they (Archimonde / KJ) are too full of themselves that they never expected us to put up a fight by ourselves, only to realize that they were (or would be) fucked too late. Maybe they don't want to destroy the planet (they certainly don't want to destroy Azeroth given that Sargeras' goal has changed to making her his). Maybe this, maybe that - I could list a few more guesses, but to be honest, it's likely just a case of PiS. It's not like it's the first time in fiction in general, or in WoW in particular, that a villain forgot their powers, after all.

Didn't get it, honestly. Firstly, from were did you get a clue that KJ or Arch are more powerful than any OG? Have they ever fought in any manner? For now I know zero evidence to that.
Secondly, Eredar Lords are supposed to be somewhat stronger than Keepers or the Avatar. The later are constructs that had to powers and existence of their own prior to their creation. Eredar lords were already powerful mages, and got additional amplification.
Still, I see no facts that would set them too far from any other creatures of their set, like Azshara, Lich King, Lei Shen or Keepers. They are all killable by comparable groups of raiders. That's a lore truth - Archimonde was beaten to death by mortals. Period. And he could do nothing to stop them, even in his own domain. Even LK was able to oneshot us all. Okay, now we got stronger, so probably he would take us same effort.
Really tired of that overestimation of these characters. We are less than 2 weeks away from looting the mighty Kil'Jaeden.

It's simple. As I have stated a few more times before, an unnamed Eredar ripped a planet surface apart with one single spell in "Prophet's Lesson", killing everything on it. Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde should be at least equal in power to this Eredar, if not more powerful. On the other hand, none of the OG have shown any indication that they could do anywhere near the same. Given that the original Kalimdor continent still left standing after the OGs fought in their war with the Titanforged, one can even question if they can destroy just a continent in one strike, much less a planet. In fact, the best they did were shattering mountaintops and killing hundreds of titanforged - that's powerful, but nowhere near planet level. To be fair, they probably have more powerful attacks than Y'Shaarj's deathrattle, but again, Kalimdor were still there so those "powerful attacks" at least aren't on the level of continent shattering. Without any hax ability involved, planet-bursting is more powerful than continent bursting (which the OGs haven't managed to do yet).

Yes, I do agree that the Eredar Lords are more powerful than the Keepers, but that isn't my point. My point is that they (the OGs, the Keepers, the Eredar Lords) are NOT empowered on the same scale. For example - numbers are arbitrarily chosen to demonstrate my point only - each Keeper might have gotten 1 / 1,000,000 of their creators' power while each OG got 1 / 1,000 of their Void Lords creators' power. In that case, if 1 / 1,000,000 of a Titan's power is lower than 1 / 1,000 of a Void Lord's power, does that automatically mean the Titan is less powerful than the Void Lords? Obviously not. Thus, I don't agree that we should judge the difference in power between Sargeras, the Titans and the Void Lords based on their minions, unless there were any confirmation that those minions scale up to their creators in similar way (i.e: both Keepers and OGs got 1/1000 of the Titans / Void Lords' power) that I'm unaware of.

[Aoyi]

If nothing else, I'm interested in a hopeful change of scenery from Fel everything. I'm mildy interested in getting past the old god aspect of the void lords and seeing more of what's beyond that. Especially if its an excuse to do a few more off planet expansons eventually.

[Mehrunes]

feels like a rip off from starcraft...just my opinion though

Illidan's current arc wasn't enough of a clue they are heading in that direction? Oo

[olddog]

It's simple. As I have stated a few more times before, an unnamed Eredar ripped a planet surface apart with one single spell in "Prophet's Lesson", killing everything on it. Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde should be at least equal in power to this Eredar, if not more powerful. On the other hand, none of the OG have shown any indication that they could do anywhere near the same. Given that the original Kalimdor continent still left standing after the OGs fought in their war with the Titanforged, one can even question if they can destroy just a continent in one strike, much less a planet. In fact, the best they did were shattering mountaintops and killing hundreds of titanforged - that's powerful, but nowhere near planet level. To be fair, they probably have more powerful attacks than Y'Shaarj's deathrattle, but again, Kalimdor were still there so those "powerful attacks" at least aren't on the level of continent shattering. Without any hax ability involved, planet-bursting is more powerful than continent bursting (which the OGs haven't managed to do yet).

Because Old Gods and Titans dosen't want destroy the planet. Purpose of the Black Empire War is Azeroth's World Soul. Burning Crusade's purpose is destroy all life and planet. Achy and KJ can destroy planet without hesitation. but Old Gods shouldn't. Their goal is corrupt World Soul.


And See Etraeus's Void phase. Full grown Old God covered entire planet with own's flesh and tentacles. Also It can easily devour a planet. Azerotian Old Gods are just immature

[Qualia]

Because Old Gods and Titans dosen't want destroy the planet. Purpose of the Black Empire War is Azeroth's World Soul. Burning Crusade's purpose is destroy all life and planet. Achy and KJ can destroy planet without hesitation. but Old Gods shouldn't. Their goal is corrupt World Soul.

Yes, I don't disagree with that. That's why I also brought up the fact that even Kalimdor was still standing pretty much intact (with the exception of the large wound that Y'Shaarj left on Azeroth when he was plucked off). It's true that they might not want to destroy the planet. However, destroying a continent wouldn't hurt. Wiping out all life - including the Titanforged - wouldn't hurt (in fact, that was what they tried to do by using Deathwing during Cataclysm). Even destroying something in the range of a country wouldn't. Seeing that none of those happened or ever indicated / hinted anywhere, I think it's fair to question their ability to do so. I would have questioned the power of KJ / Archimonde the same way if Velen's short story doesn't exist - but it does.

[Thoughtcrime]

Greater scope villains are a fantasy staple, so I'm not going begrudge moving past Sargeras or the Legion as the primary antagonist - I don't personally want the game or the story to end so further cultivation is needed to ensure that doesn't happen. The hope is that the story of the new villain matches or eclipses the one that came before.

I don't mind moving past Sargeras, but do you think an escalation of threat is preferable to establishing interesting antagonists? Sargeras was basically Lucifer, his story is kind of tragic in that he has a somewhat noble goal, just with methods that aren't compatible with us. He has motivations, traits and flaws that actual real life human beings can relate to and understand. This is an antagonist.

The void lords on the other hand are a kind of threat that can't be an antagonist because it can't be a character. They're just evil and malice, their goal is to destroy everything and be mean. Human beings cannot relate to this in any way, they can be used to drive the actions of actual characters in a story but they aren't interesting by themselves. This is a threat.

I just feel like they should focus on building characters that are interesting and we want to engage with and learn more about, rather than monsters and threats just to kill for loot. They can tell stories within the world and setting that they've already established, they could do that forever but that demands good writing. Instead they've chosen the laziest route of threat escalation that I find boring and easy personally, and that's unfortunate. It also begs another question. What happens when we kill the void lords?

Edit: A good example is Star Wars. The first movie was full of threat (Darth Vader, The Empire, The Deathstar). We cared because the protagonist was solid and we rooted for the other characters along the way as they faced those threats. That works in a 100 minute movie.

In the sequel they knew they couldn't just escalate the threat, that would be boring, they blew up a planet sized space station already. What are you gonna do, have an even BIGGER space station? That's one of the reasons why Jedi is a weaker film (apart from the throne scene) and was my only major gripe with Force Awakens. Instead, in Empire they focused on the characters, and established Vader as an actual antagonist to Luke. This is how you build on a story.

[Sliske]

The general rule to good storytelling is to create interesting characters and torture them for 300 pages. Blizzard has been wildly successful in creating interesting characters. The Void Lords though.... Does anyone really care about them? They seem pretty uninteresting to me.

The only emotion you can feel from a world-eating enemy is terror. Unfortunately the idea that my characters world will be consumed isn't very terrifying to me, considering, you know, its a game.

So no, I don't care about the void lords. Nor do I care about any planet-eating monster. They generally look cool, thats about it. Fantastic 4: Silver Surfer couldn't even make their planet-eater look cool, though.