About that combat revamp

[Nikkaszal]

I quitted 2 month ago but would like for someone to summ up for me if the new changes make classes less button bloaty or not? I know some mechanics have been simplified like Enochian.

Greatly appreciate everyone who would have time to make quick summary of classes (even one or two sentences) because im not familiar with any class really... (Played Ninja and as soon as i unlocked Machinist i switched - hated ninja since it get 3rd mudra). This was my only reason to quit this marvelous game and im awaiting the combat revamp update to see if something changed in regards of classes having stupid amount of buttons to press.

Technically yes, a bunch of stuff has been slimmed down or cut, but at the same time each job is getting new abilities. You're going to end up with about the same amount of buttons by 70.

The new jobs are also... VERY bloaty. Example: Red Mage...

You have one button for your combo starter. Then two buttons to continue the combo - one for white mana and one for black. Each then has another button that's a proc. When your manas are both about full you then have your big combo, which is FIVE buttons (including your gapclose and disengage to get you in and out of melee). After that, each mana then has another button for a big nuke.

So all up, taking into account you're going to be using both white and black spells in tandem and balance, you have... 12 buttons for your damage abilities, all of which are mandatory (ie not situational utility). Then you have your cooldowns and cross-class stuff.

[Florena]

Technically yes, a bunch of stuff has been slimmed down or cut, but at the same time each job is getting new abilities. You're going to end up with about the same amount of buttons by 70.

The new jobs are also... VERY bloaty. Example: Red Mage...

You have one button for your combo starter. Then two buttons to continue the combo - one for white mana and one for black. Each then has another button that's a proc. When your manas are both about full you then have your big combo, which is FIVE buttons (including your gapclose and disengage to get you in and out of melee). After that, each mana then has another button for a big nuke.

So all up, taking into account you're going to be using both white and black spells in tandem and balance, you have... 12 buttons for your damage abilities, all of which are mandatory (ie not situational utility). Then you have your cooldowns and cross-class stuff.

I feel like verfire and verstone should just be folded into verlightning and veraero, upgraded when you get the proc. That would save a couple button spaces right there instead of just giving htem long cast times we won't want to use without procs.

[Aliven]

Technically yes, a bunch of stuff has been slimmed down or cut, but at the same time each job is getting new abilities. You're going to end up with about the same amount of buttons by 70.

The new jobs are also... VERY bloaty. Example: Red Mage...

You have one button for your combo starter. Then two buttons to continue the combo - one for white mana and one for black. Each then has another button that's a proc. When your manas are both about full you then have your big combo, which is FIVE buttons (including your gapclose and disengage to get you in and out of melee). After that, each mana then has another button for a big nuke.

So all up, taking into account you're going to be using both white and black spells in tandem and balance, you have... 12 buttons for your damage abilities, all of which are mandatory (ie not situational utility). Then you have your cooldowns and cross-class stuff.

Thanks for response.

Damn, but red mage skills look so freaking cool

[Nikkaszal]

I feel like verfire and verstone should just be folded into verlightning and veraero, upgraded when you get the proc. That would save a couple button spaces right there instead of just giving htem long cast times we won't want to use without procs.

Could easily bake it into a Trait, in keeping with the FF systems.

[Florena]

It's going to be...interesting figuring out how I'm going to map red mage skills on my key binds on the 16th.

[The Casualty]

It's going to be...interesting figuring out how I'm going to map red mage skills on my key binds on the 16th.

https://tylian.github.io/rdm/

You can set keybinds and even practice the rotation.

[Anastacy]

https://tylian.github.io/rdm/

You can set keybinds and even practice the rotation.

Yup! I got into a pretty nice groove and "practiced" for a straight 10 minutes after figuring a good keybind set. Not seeing the actions actually play out is a bit jarring still (for me at least), and you can't place all of the Role abilities, but it's a good place to start.

[Deleted]

Does that thing exist for other classes? That is amazing

[Deleted]

jesus that red mage rotation looks awfully complicated. It's gonna be fun learning to play it optimally, and I still have THM to fall back if I end up being extremely shit at it.

[Xyonai]

jesus that red mage rotation looks awfully complicated. It's gonna be fun learning to play it optimally, and I still have THM to fall back if I end up being extremely shit at it.

There's a bit of a rythem you gotta get used to, it seems with the casting portion of it.

But to me it looks like you open with Jolt, then use the Dual-Cast to hit VerAero/Thunder. If those proc Stone/Fire, hit that, then use the dual cast to hit the one of the opposite Mana type and repeat until the proc fails to trigger, or you get around 85 mana in both bars. Otherwise, use Impact if it's procced or Jolt to restart the cycle. Once the Mana bars are at an adequate level (making sure one is higher than the other) you begin the melee rotation by jumping in, hitting the 1-2-3 combo, then disengage to finish with Verholy/Flare, depending on which bar is bigger at the end.

There's quite a lot of stuff to keep track of, honestly, and the above isn't even considering cross-role skills or DPS cooldowns. It's gonna be a fun, wild mess to learn these new jobs.

[Florena]

jesus that red mage rotation looks awfully complicated. It's gonna be fun learning to play it optimally, and I still have THM to fall back if I end up being extremely shit at it.

It looks complex but I have a feeling in practice it won't be so bad with a bit of practice.

[Katchii]

jesus that red mage rotation looks awfully complicated. It's gonna be fun learning to play it optimally, and I still have THM to fall back if I end up being extremely shit at it.

I think the rotation looks really simple honestly, the difference between RDM and something like Monk is that with Monk you are only allowed to use certain abilities once you are in the combo situation whereas with RDM you can use whatever spell you want, whenever, so you have to make sure you choose the correct one at the correct time to be optimal.

After a certain amount of practice, the melee combos just become second nature so you don't even realize what's highlighted you just hit the right buttons at the right time. Same thing will happen after spending enough time playing RDM, you'll just know what you're supposed to hit at certain times.

[Deleted]

There's a bit of a rythem you gotta get used to, it seems with the casting portion of it.

But to me it looks like you open with Jolt, then use the Dual-Cast to hit VerAero/Thunder. If those proc Stone/Fire, hit that, then use the dual cast to hit the one of the opposite Mana type and repeat until the proc fails to trigger, or you get around 85 mana in both bars. Otherwise, use Impact if it's procced or Jolt to restart the cycle. Once the Mana bars are at an adequate level (making sure one is higher than the other) you begin the melee rotation by jumping in, hitting the 1-2-3 combo, then disengage to finish with Verholy/Flare, depending on which bar is bigger at the end.

There's quite a lot of stuff to keep track of, honestly, and the above isn't even considering cross-role skills or DPS cooldowns. It's gonna be a fun, wild mess to learn these new jobs.

There is no reason to open with Jolt 2, you open hardcasting verthunder/aero with 5 seconds at the pull.

[Katchii]

There is no reason to open with Jolt 2, you open hardcasting verthunder/aero with 5 seconds at the pull.

Open yes, but every time after the initial cast, Jolt/Jolt 2 will be the spell you use before Verthunder/Veraero to proc Dualcast.

[Deleted]

Open yes, but every time after the initial cast, Jolt/Jolt 2 will be the spell you use before Verthunder/Veraero to proc Dualcast.

only if you dont have verstone/fire, impact or swiftcast. among all of those jolt will be rarely used.

[Katchii]

only if you dont have verstone/fire, impact or swiftcast. among all of those jolt will be rarely used.

Dualcast will only proc off a spell when it casts with a cast time, so instant cast spells won't proc it.

[Deleted]

Dualcast will only proc off a spell when it casts with a cast time, so instant cast spells won't proc it.

I know? and? you are still gonna use swiftcasted verthunder/aero if you dont have verstone/fire or impact to use. Then if you dont proc any stone/fire and you aren't at 8x/8x mana you are gonna use jolt in that case.

[Xyonai]

There is no reason to open with Jolt 2, you open hardcasting verthunder/aero with 5 seconds at the pull.

Ah! Yes, you have a point there. I hadn't considered that.

[Deleted]

I think the rotation looks really simple honestly, the difference between RDM and something like Monk is that with Monk you are only allowed to use certain abilities once you are in the combo situation whereas with RDM you can use whatever spell you want, whenever, so you have to make sure you choose the correct one at the correct time to be optimal.

After a certain amount of practice, the melee combos just become second nature so you don't even realize what's highlighted you just hit the right buttons at the right time. Same thing will happen after spending enough time playing RDM, you'll just know what you're supposed to hit at certain times.

I see, so to give a bit of context on that: I have been playing this game two months total and my only character is a level 47 THM :P so I may need to get used to combos and all that stuff. Maybe 3 months after playing Red Mage that's gonna be my same pov, for now it looks complex

[Katchii]

I know? and? you are still gonna use swiftcasted verthunder/aero if you dont have verstone/fire or impact to use. Then if you dont proc any stone/fire and you aren't at 8x/8x mana you are gonna use jolt in that case.

My response is only refuting your claim that Jolt will rarely be used. I'm saying that in a DPS rotation, Jolt/Jolt II will be one of your primary spells used to proc Dualcast so you can insta cast your more potent spells, primarily verthunder and veraero.