Legalise Euthanasia

[Evangeliste]

They key point here is support, sufficient support can mean that person could have a decent life (Stephen Hawking), the issue I have is that society neither offers the level of support required NOR offers the other way out.

My view is that society has to offer ONE or the OTHER .... currently they offer neither.

I live in a society where my national healthcare gave such support in my said example clearly showed that support was there and actually sufficient and funded through the government otherwise sadly this individual who was part of my society, wouldn't have been able to live up to a point where his functions descended into only blinking. I think you missed the point of the example entirely so I will break it down. They received monetary funds to keep a household afloat and so the wife could take care full-time. They clearly received medical extras such as breathing apparatus, colostomy bag and more as a means to prolong their life and not suffer though clearly they did to a point where over a period of time at the lowest of the low point, they expressed to die.

But even after all that support and was in such an extreme set of conditions that he wanted to die, that's acceptably extreme. Where a man who could physically do anything for most of his life was basically left to sit in a chair that couldn't feed himself, go to the toilet in a controlled state, couldn't dress, can't express emotions verbally or physically even with facial expressions, could hardly breathe... Even less than a new-born child. Don't you agree that's extreme stress and distress on any adult's mind?

Stephen Hawking is not a very good example at all. He felt his life could continue personally though this said individual clearly stated several times in sound mind, he was ready to die and had to kill himself in a desperate attempt to acknowledge his plea.
Stephen Hawking had government funding too like the said individual, perhaps less too but Hawking had help from outside resources too, that wasn't funded through my society which to make it help I'm English, the said individual is English and so is Stephen Hawking.
Stephen Hawking came to live with his disease at a time where medical technology wasn't as advanced as now however, he had people around him whom were able to help him surpass his limitations through genuine love, attention and know-how. For example, his first machine that allowed him to talk was made by one of his carer's engineering husband who built it by using I believe parts from radios, telephones and the voice came from a part he got from his workplace. Things like that are not on the agenda of support for most places, most likely won't be either because technologically we aren't a point of mass production in that vein.
Just so you know the technology we use on smartphones is what Stephen Hawking uses. That tech made for Hawking was later adapted to be part of smartphone capabilities, and it was made by a variety of people over the years including from the military and university students, just because they wanted to help Hawking. Not everyone gets that adoration or help. Hence the bad example.

[baskev]

Im not too keen on the methods I must confess, as in drinking a poison cocktail

the "poison" is Barbiturate that will put you into a coma, then you get a muscle relaxer witch causes you to stop breathing making it a quick death. usually in 30 min.
They do not use morfine etc..because doses can vary allot and make you hallucinate.


( all medication in a to large doses is poison )

[Zethras]

I guess we will agree to disagree.

But WHY are you disagreeing? I cannot wrap my head around your lines of thinking.

[baskev]

I think euthanasia should never be legal. I think it is a sign of societal collapse and rise of depravity that we are even discussing this.

If you're ill, as in suffering from physical and real pain, I feel for you and I wish you nothing more than getting better. Now, I know that recovery is not on the cards for many terminally ill people hence the terminally ill part but I still think that euthanasia is not the answer.


I wish we had stasis technology that would solve everything.

Please do not see this as attack, but a part of a discussion.

So you say:
- you acknowledge that people can be sick and not get better
- you acknowledge that people can have INSANE amounts of pain

right??

Okay a couple questions/remarks to you ( q = question, r= remark:
- (q) You do know terminally ill does not always mean that you die in a few weeks/months...
- (q) Do you agree with torture? (r) letting people suffer and not give them a way out is torture.
- (q) Do you believe in free will and free rights and right of your own body???
- (r) what gives other people the right to choice anything about your body.
- (q) why is it a sign of societal collapse and rise of depravity? (r)>Better said what is so depraved about it..Depraved means morally corrupted etc...So torture is morally correct???
And societal collapse.....yeah because its the end of the world that people die a little sooner that they where supposed to ( this one was sarcastic).
- (q) What is the answer?? (r) Stasis is indeed not a option. (q) but what is??

A little education how they do it in the netherlands:
1. you go to a doctor and you need to talk about how sick you are. You say you want to end your live and he or she says you are indeed terminal/quality of life is not there anymore.
2. The doctor needs to check ( or a other professional) that you are sound of mind
3. The patient also needs to talk to you about what the situation is now and what is ahead for the patient.
4. They both need to agree that its the only option
5. Then atleast 1!! different, unknown doctor ( so no relation to the current doctor/patient) needs to agree with point 1 to 4 also.
6. He needs to do it a correct manner.
7. A coroner gets all the info and looks if ( medically) everything was correct. So if the patient was really sick, and it all went "well".
8. After the fact, a group of people ( consisting out of a doctor, a ethicist and lawyer) will look over the whole process..If anything did not go well the doctors can be jailed up to 12 years ( and loose their job off-course) 12 years btw is pretty long in the netherlands.

Side note: If during this process you go into a coma, become demented etc , So you loose you sanity, ability to decided or just do not suffer because you are asleep. It is no longer Unbearable pain..and you can no longer choose for your self...so it can NOT be performed anymore.

Some side notes:
- Of then handled request ( per year)...4 are on average not deemed as handled well.
- Since 2002 ( when it became legal) their have been NO doctors who did not go to jail or was prosecuted for it.
- A doctor can refuse to do it.
- a family can not block it if the person is deemed old enough and sane. But there will be a case worker set on it to guide both party's.
- average per year 5500 people die because of euthanasia
- 80% of them are people with cancer
- Euthanasia is about 3% of the annual deaths.
- it takes usually 30min to a hour.
- you first get medication to fall asleep ( slip into a coma), then you get a muscle relaxer with makes you stop breathing.

[Rustedsaint]

Personally I feel assisted suicide should only be allowed for a person with terminal or constant physical pain. it's a slippery slope when dealing with mental illness and in those cases it shouldn't be allowed since it sets bad standard.
(Search the forum here and you can find threads about an alcoholic who received euthanasia instead of fixing his problem,
a rape victim who received it(even thou one of her doctors said it might been just a cry for help)
I can honestly see older people being pressured into euthanasia by there children just cause the kids want their inheritance early.

[Deleted]

Overall, I am in favour of allowing it. People should be able and allowed to decide themselves what should happen with their life. And even though the loss of life is always very sad, and it's fantastic if we can prevent it - at the end of the day, it is not always possible, and even more importantly, it is their life after all. And in some case, it's just merciful to allow them end their life on their volition, without them having to go through actual suicide (if they are even still able to do so) - or forcing them to carry on until the bitter end.

Who are we to decide how long someone should stick around if they - themselves - are perfectly capable of deciding on their own, and maybe don't want to? It's not like someone can just go there and say "Hey, I am not feeling well today, I want to die", the will usually has to persist over a certain amount of time in order to prevent snap-decisions. And obviously, there also would have to be mechanisms in place that would prevent abuse (talking an elderly person into it to get an inheritance earlier etc). We don't have to personally like it - but if the framework is done right, personally, I think it's the right thing to do to give people that option and choice.

[Independent voter]

6 States and DC Have Legalized Physician-Assisted Suicide
(see section I below) assisted suicide check mark legal

5 states (CA, CO, OR, VT, and WA) and DC legalized physician-assisted suicide via legislation

1 state (MT) has legal physician-assisted suicide via court ruling


44 States Consider Assisted Suicide Illegal
(see section II below) assisted suicide x mark illegal

37 states have laws prohibiting assisted suicide

3 states (AL, MA, and WV) prohibit assisted suicide by common law

4 states (NV, NC, UT, and WY) have no specific laws regarding assisted suicide, may not recognize common law, or are otherwise unclear on the legality of assisted suicide.

[Grimbold21]

But WHY are you disagreeing? I cannot wrap my head around your lines of thinking.

You must be new to Shinra shitposting

[Jinpachi]

It should be up to the individual. I see it like this. If abortion is legal, than euthanasia should absolutely be legal. How can you logically justify one and not the other?

[yetgdhfgh]

I believe in a society based on Logans Run

When you reach a certain age the crystal in your hand should start blinking and that means its time for you to die and RENEW!

[Nerdgasm]

Are you pro euthanasia or against?

Pro.

One of the pillars of my area (Medicine) is to alleviate pain. If the only prognosis is the degradation of health, further increase of pain and death why should we negate the patience access to modern, scientific and controled way of shortening his painful/degrading path to death?

I sincerely think it's anti ethical that we have the means to do it quick and painless and yet we choose to further people's suffering.

The only great problem I have with euthanasia is that normalization of the practice may lead to institutions (Hospitals, healthcare providers, govt and etc) taking it too far only to reduce costs/free beds.

[Moon-Man]

No, I rather suffer endlessly in a most painful death. While Government miking you out of your money that should go to your family.


OT: Of course they should. But they don't want to, so they can keep milking suffering people out of their money, as a gold mine. Once the Gold Mine is empty, they let them die...painfully and slowly.

[bledgor]

I used to not think so, but after having real life experiences with Alzheimer, I am not okay with it in certain circumstances (aka certain diseases/diagnoses).

[Nerdgasm]

Ok, there's a coma treatment that has an extremely low success rate, but that's still barely a dent in the disease post vaccination time period, and people shouldnt have to siffer insanity before death just causee a coma treatment has saved 5 people out of 50.

There's still the problem with age even if the treatment was effective. After a certain point (After your neural plasticity is not that good anymore) even if the treatmeant is effective you will turn into a live vegetable because the virus already killed most of your previous brain functions.

If I ever get rabies to that point and I'm past 60, please kill me.

[kail]

You must be new to Shinra shitposting

I almost fell for it as well.

[ComputerNerd]

Pro - but with really robust controls and legislation.
Someone involved with the best of intentions should be protected from consequences.

[Deleted]

I think euthanasia should never be legal. I think it is a sign of societal collapse and rise of depravity that we are even discussing this.

If you're ill, as in suffering from physical and real pain, I feel for you and I wish you nothing more than getting better. Now, I know that recovery is not on the cards for many terminally ill people hence the terminally ill part but I still think that euthanasia is not the answer.


I wish we had stasis technology that would solve everything.

i love when People who never suffered talk shit.

How about you get a deadly disease and than you say that again ? how about you are locked in without being able to move and say that again

[Shinra1]

But WHY are you disagreeing? I cannot wrap my head around your lines of thinking.

I already outlined why I disagree with euthanasia. I'm not going to recap every time a new person quotes me.


Also I respect the sanctity of life and because my faith (which I have not mentioned thus far in this thread for obvious reasons) clearly outlines that euthanasia is not acceptable under any circumstance.

- - - Updated - - -

i love when People who never suffered talk shit.

How about you get a deadly disease and than you say that again ? how about you are locked in without being able to move and say that again

How do you know I have never suffered? Furthermore, one doesn't need to have experienced excruciating pain to be able to share their opinion on this matter. In fact, experiencing pain and suffering make you less objective when decision-making. And finally, I have never said in this thread that I want other people to suffer or if other people should die or anything of that nature. I am not in power or legislating my views, and they're just that my views which is what the OP is asking for. Having such a view does not mean, regardless of how hard posters here try to tell me, I am making people suffer. lol

Whatever happened to respecting other people's views, eh?

[Vash The Stampede]

No because I'm a firm believer that technology will fix anything in time.

[Jakexe]

I support it. The fact that even your own life isn't yours offends me deeply. We think freedom is the bestest thing ever but we don't even own our own lives from the second we're born.

If you want to die, there should be avenues to allow that to happen. Especially for someone in palliative care or a similar situation.