Counter-Protests Outnumber Anti-Muslim Marches in Several Cities Across U.S.

[Machismo]

Well it does matter when it's accepted as a religious freedom and parents who mutilate their daughter wont be prosecuted as well as other sharia law crimes getting lighter punishments or are completely ignored.

That's simple, deal with the action which actually causes harm. In this case, the abuse/assault committed on the child. There's already laws that cover such things, so there is no issue.

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If nobody wants Sharia law, then why is their a counter protest to people protesting something that "nobody" wants?

Because the protests weren't really about Shariah Law. They were about bashing Muslims. Look at the signs, listen to what people were actually saying.

[NineSpine]

Okay NineSpine. Lets assume that you are 100% correct; that these people are absolutely stupid and ignorant. Note that when i say "lets assume" I mean i am conceding that point to you.

How would having a counter protest against a protest that is explicitly stating, "You can be here but please no sharia law" going to do anything but feed that group's hysteria and conspiracy theories about that issue?

One can just look at the pictures of the protest and see signs that say things like "NO MORE MUSLIMS" so your characterization of that side of the protest is just bullshit.

None of those counter protesters had signs that showed how much Muslims are actually for (or against) Sharia law. None of them had signs saying, "We agree that Sharia law is bad and we stand with you on that point but you are going about this in the wrong way."

The counter-protestors don't need to indulge the other side's batshit conspiracy version of what sharia law even is. You are asking that the other side concede some of your ignorant delusions about Islam. When an anti-semitic group has a protest, do you demand the counter-protestors have signs that say "I agree that Jews reject Christ and are damned to Hell, and seem to control a disproportionate amount of banking wealth, but..."

There were, "Muslims are here to stay!" signs and there were, "STOP ISLAMOPHOBIA NOW!" Signs.

Yeah, and there were "NO MORE MUSLIMS" on the other side.

So in the minds of these protesters, who are both unintelligent and not smart, "Islamophobia" is now code word for "Anti Sharia Law."

Yeah, if you start with the ignorant, insane position that sharia law means some kind of authoritarian, oppressive regime of murder and death, yeah.

Instead of forming a proper response to the protest, these counter protesters "reacted" to the protest and in doing so only increased the convictions of those protesting AND have convinced others that the definition of "Islamophobia" is "Noun: Being against Sharia Law."

Do you not understand the danger in this?

You are under the impression that the counter-protestors were trying to change the minds of deluded conspiracy theorists like yourself. They aren't. They are trying to prevent you from infecting the minds of others.

[Jinpachi]

What exactly are they protesting against shariah law for, is there some push to enforce it that I haven't heard of yet?

Go take a drive through Dearborn, Michigan and you'll see why they are protesting.

[NineSpine]

America does not have a Human Rights Commission that can and has went after people for slight perceived breeches of human rights. Your point is invalid.

Are we still confused about what non-binding means?

Incorrect. The CHRC handles both bringing cases against individuals and settling cases against said individuals. They have the power of prosecution by proxy in the same way that the EPA in America can create regulations via a proxy of a law and prosecute breeches against those regulations.

No, it can't. It just refers cases to the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. You know, maybe before you start whining and acting condescending about how others don't understand how this works, you should crack a book and learn for yourself.

[NineSpine]

Go take a drive through Dearborn, Michigan and you'll see why they are protesting.

I've been to Dearborn. It's a lovely town.

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If we take the assumption that you are coming in, that these people are stupid and ignorant: Why do you expect smart articulations of thoughts on the posters? Some of what they were saying were hurtful and stupid but they were not "misguided" just "poorly articulated." There is a difference here and to treat a poorly articulated message as the core message is only breeding more misunderstanding and misunderstanding breeds resentment. Resentment breeds hatred.

Circle jerking how much these people are islamophobes will only make them worse. Had a single one of those counter protesters took the time to explain to these people that most American muslims are against Sharia law (I don't know this is fact but i would hope the counter protesters both believe this and have evidence to back this up) it could of change minds and soften hearts. Instead they created the implicit bond between "Islamophobia" and "Sharia Law" in the minds of the people the counter protesters see as ignorant.

Why would most American Muslims be against Sharia law? That makes no sense. That's like saying you expect most Jews to be against Judaic law.

[Jinpachi]

I've been to Dearborn. It's a lovely town.

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Why would most American Muslims be against Sharia law? That makes no sense. That's like saying you expect most Jews to be against Judaic law.

LOL @ dearborn being lovely. But you're absolutely right about muslims not being against sharia law. Thus the reason for the protest.

[Machismo]

If we take the assumption that you are coming in, that these people are stupid and ignorant: Why do you expect smart articulations of thoughts on the posters? Some of what they were saying were hurtful and stupid but they were not "misguided" just "poorly articulated." There is a difference here and to treat a poorly articulated message as the core message is only breeding more misunderstanding and misunderstanding breeds resentment. Resentment breeds hatred.

Circle jerking how much these people are islamophobes will only make them worse. Had a single one of those counter protesters took the time to explain to these people that most American muslims are against Sharia law (I don't know this is fact but i would hope the counter protesters both believe this and have evidence to back this up) it could of change minds and soften hearts. Instead they created the implicit bond between "Islamophobia" and "Sharia Law" in the minds of the people the counter protesters see as ignorant.

I have no desire to make the Islamophobes better. They are willfully ignorant, and in the middle of mass hysteria. The ability to reason with them has long passed. I'd much rather point them out to the rest of the world in a mocking manner, so that others are less inclined to be like them.

If someone is willfully ignorant, then another person is not going to change their minds. In fact, it's shown that factual evidence will actually make such a person "dig in" even deeper to their misguided and ignorant beliefs. Their brains are too fragile to admit to being wrong. Until they can admit to being wrong, they cannot be helped. People who are willfully ignorant are not interested in facts and data that does not confirm their narrative.

The protests were clearly not just about Shariah Law, since the signs and the rhetoric were far more broad.

[NineSpine]

LOL @ dearborn being lovely. But you're absolutely right about muslims not being against sharia law. Thus the reason for the protest.

Yeah, and that makes sense, if you are incredibly ignorant and think Sharia law means something it doesn't. That's the problem.

[NineSpine]

LOL @ dearborn being lovely. But you're absolutely right about muslims not being against sharia law. Thus the reason for the protest.

Also, Dearborn is very lovely. I don't know what you think it's like there, but it's very nice. Lots of good restaurants, friendly people. The crime rate has plummeted in the last 15 years. What exactly is the problem?

[NineSpine]

If you are willing to start from the assumption that someone is "willfully ignorant" then you have no way of reaching them. You have already forsaken them and you are no better than the people who assume that "all of X are Y."

No, judging someone for their beliefs and actions is perfectly acceptable.

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So you are saying most American Muslims are for Sharia Law?

Yes, but you don't know what sharia law is, which is why this confuses you so much.

[Machismo]

If you are willing to start from the assumption that someone is "willfully ignorant" then you have no way of reaching them. You have already forsaken them and you are no better than the people who assume that "all of X are Y."

Like I said, I have no desire to reach them. The science is actually pretty clear, you cannot reach people who are willfully ignorant. The exact mental state that makes them ignorant, prevents them from recognizing it within themselves. Unlike most of those protesters, I simply choose to cast aspersions. Most of them want to legislate their ignorance and bigotry. The two are not even close to the same.

[Deleted]

If you are active on some parts of the internet it is hard to believe.... but protesting against liberal positions is frowned upon. Protesting for "liberal" positions (This is somehow complex. While acceptance of other cultures is liberal the culture in question is very conservative) is deemed righteous.

So: Big whooping surprise that more people showed up for the counter protest than for the original protest. Showing up to one will hurt your social standing indefinably while showing up to the other will not.

[Taso]

The legal and practical definitions of racism include ethnic discrimination, not just racial discrimination.

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But why do they to add it to racism? Literally I was taught not jokingly that racism was the belief of superiority to another race or color superiority to another. Then I was taught religious discrimination where people discriminated against those of particular religion such as Judaism and Islam.
So I dont get why people have to add it as a term to racism, to me it seems like a pseudo scientific justification to claim race and religion are the same when their logically not .

[NineSpine]

They wanted "No More Muslims" because they believe that all Muslims believe in and adhere to Sharia law. You cannot both assume that these people are stupid and ignorant and also assume that they are smart enough to fully articulate what they mean.




Then what is the purpose of "counter protesting?" Circle jerking? Do they think the protesters will have their mind changed because someone simply said, "Go home nothing's changing"?




I hope you phrased this wrong.




How? By making an event 5 times bigger than it would of been otherwise and putting a magnifying glass on an otherwise small, insignificant event where by showing the counter protests people can be exposed to the propaganda of the protest itself ensuring that a larger portion of the population will be exposed to the rhetoric of the protest and as such, increase the amount of people in the protest next time around?

Are these counter protesters so hedonistic that they can't think of the future consequences of their actions because in the moment, in the now, they feel like they are making a positive change?

You know i had no idea there was an Anti Sharia protest until i heard about the Anti Sharia counter protest.

You are trying to have it both ways. You want the protest to be seen as sensible and valid, but then opposition to it is nothing but a circle jerk. You are welcome to the dim and ignorant view that protests are pointless, but when you start making that delineation based on which protests you agree with, you've descended into nonsensical defining-myself-as-correct garbage.

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The legal and practical definitions of racism include ethnic discrimination, not just racial discrimination.

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But why do they to add it to racism? Literally I was taught not jokingly that racism was the belief of superiority to another race or color superiority to another. Then I was taught religious discrimination where people discriminated against those of particular religion such as Judaism and Islam.
So I dont get why people have to add it as a term to racism, to me it seems like a pseudo scientific justification to claim race and religion are the same when their logically not .

Because racial and ethnic discrimination are inseparable concepts and breaking them out turns into a big waste of time arguing about whether hating jewish people is racism since it's a religion not just a race and blah blah blah.

[Machismo]

The legal and practical definitions of racism include ethnic discrimination, not just racial discrimination.

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But why do they to add it to racism? Literally I was taught not jokingly that racism was the belief of superiority to another race or color superiority to another. Then I was taught religious discrimination where people discriminated against those of particular religion such as Judaism and Islam.
So I dont get why people have to add it as a term to racism, to me it seems like a pseudo scientific justification to claim race and religion are the same when their logically not .

It's added to the term mainly out of ease. It's also why the term "homophobia" has changed over years. Islamophobia is fundamentally the same as racism, and so people often combined the two. There's also the issue of those who specifically focus on certain ethnicities when speaking of Islam. They are generally not referring to white Muslims who were born in Omaha, Nebraska, but rather Arab Muslims.

[Nihilist74]

The same idiots that are protesting Sharia law are probably the same idiots that vote in Christian religious right politicians who are trying to impose their religion on everyone as much as those who are trying to push sharia law on everyone.

[Dystemper]

honor killings in the us? can you name three in the last 5 years?

the sad thing is you drink the fearmongering so much you are spreading it.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...n-the-US_N.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/honor-ki...iny-in-the-us/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/10...oll-rises.html

[NineSpine]

If it is obvious that we disagree on the real world effects of non-binding agreements, why do you keep bringing this up?

Because it very clearly demonstrates how much people like yourself are willing to absolutely deny reality if reality is inconvenient for your ideology. A non-binding resolution is, by definition, not legally binding. If it was, it would be called a binding resolution. Insisting a non-binding resolution has bearing on what is or is not legal is deluded. It is core reality denial. A legally binding non-binding resolution is an oxymoron. It is logically inconsistent.

You are correct that it refers cases to the Human Rights Tribunal, but cases are not handed over to the Tribunal unless a dispute on the charges made arise. Which means that if someone is told by the CHRC, "You hurt this guy's feelings, pay $1,000.00" and the "guilty" party says, "Okay." Adjudication does not need to take place.

Unfortunately most people who get dinged by the CHRC don't take their cases to adjudication by challenging the findings of the CHRC.

No, that isn't how it works. The CHRC does not designate fine amounts. All they do is present findings to the Tribunal, and the Tribunal makes that call.

But you would not know this by just Googling like you did.

I clearly know a hell of a lot more about it than you do.

[Machismo]

I disagree that there exists a state of "willful ignorance." I don't need you to agree on that point and i am totally fine with you believing that a state of "willful ignorance" can exist. I do appreciate your honesty WRT not wanting to reach them.

If there is a paranoia over Shariah Law in this country, then it is wrought from willful ignorance. I used to be a racist person. I was raised in a tiny, conservative town. Racism was pervasive, yet if you had asked me if I were racist, I would deny it to my dying breath. I was an ignorant idiot, and did not realize it, until I learned on my own that I was actually racist. I had to shed my willful ignorance, before I could move forward as a person.

As for the people at the marches, the fear over Shariah Law in this country is absurd. The chances of ending up in an oppressive theocracy are far more likely to occur under Christianity in the United States. This was not about Shariah Law, it was about hatred for Muslims as a whole. The signs and rhetoric made that quite clear. What statistic could you provide to those crowds, that would change their mind?

[NineSpine]

I disagree.

Instead of assuming that you have dominion over me, you can just ask, "What is your understanding of Sharia law." It makes you look less like a pompous ideologue, especially when you tell someone who's studied Islam for years that they don't know what Sharia Law is.

Really? I'm fluent in Arabic and Farsi, so I anticipate we can continue this conversation as such, now that I know you are a fellow expert in the field!

The logic you are using to derive this conclusion is absolutely faulty. Mostly because you are attempting to analyze what i am doing from your perspective instead of just asking me what I think. Since you have establish that you believe willful ignorance is an actual thing, we can never, ever see eye to eye on this topic. You can just say that i am "willfully ignorant of the damage that the protesters are causing."

I disagree.

You can continue to disagree, but thankfully, the definitions of words are not contingent upon your approval.