FFXIV has over 6 million?

[Queen of Hamsters]

I have always been disappointed in wow


.

Well, good that there are other games to satisfy you then. And WoW is still around and will be around for people finding it the best and most high quality MMO on the market.

I can say this about transmog and players "being happy it exists because they don't like current sets"; They've NEVER been able to satisfy every.single.player with how gear looks. Never happened, never will happen. We have people right now proclaiming how they'd never use ToS sets over the original Black Temple ones, for example. And I know quite a few people whom really like the ToT DK set. So, again, subjectivity runs thick. I also know "purists" whom NEVER use transmog.

I reckon most games (including FFXIV) would see players upset could they not "transmog" or otherwise customize their gear. It's viewed as a standard by now.

[Melsiren]

It's been very successful at being successful.

Having an MMO go and look like it is going to keep going is the definition of being successful. But who'd want to be the definition of successful as presented by wow anyway? All that money, not doing anything with it. It ain't coming back to your game or is, by and large, being wasted on a small minority of players.

The fact that a game that would have been "successful" at launch with "only" 500k subscribers (which is a number that was well exceeded requiring the implementation of new datacenters) is boasting a similar level quality product compared to this invincible unstoppable titan really says a lot about development at Blizzard.

Class quests were a big thing to people the last time I played. Something FFXIV has so effortlessly delivered. Just feels like World of Warcraft got too big to listen to anybody outside of their building.

Wow distorted the concept of a successful MMO when it became a smash hit. I think people forget that EQ was considered widely successful at it's time and the highest recorded Sub count was 450k. It's actually one of the reasons why I laugh so hard in the face of all the "WoW is dying" crowd, an MMO does not need 10 million, let alone one million to continue to produce content.

WoW is not the gold standard of MMO, WoW is the anomaly.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Wow distorted the concept of a successful MMO when it became a smash hit. I think people forget that EQ was considered widely successful at it's time and the highest recorded Sub count was 450k. It's actually one of the reasons why I laugh so hard in the face of all the "WoW is dying" crowd, an MMO does not need 10 million, let alone one million to continue to produce content.

And apparently, the game is dead and buried with 5+ million active subs.
WOTLK really made people blind. It's like the people staring at "total accounts created" and using that as some metric for overall health and life of a game.

[dope_danny]

So you would rather the game risk dying than it having a chance to bring in more players? I've heard this in another forum before and it's a very silly stance to take. I would rather bring in more kinds of players than just appeal to one kind. FF14 does that well and it can do it even better as well as appealing to hardcore players.

No subs totally matter anyone who thinks otherwise is usually a fanboy with a complex, but when i have a server que every time i log in the game is not in any desperate need to become a hit with the mainstream that in every single case in my experience leads to a detriment for a game. Casuals outnumber the niche market and with wider market appeal follows the loss of the niche appeal something had began with. Every time.
As times gone on and so many ip's i loved over the last ten years have died to 'wider market appeal' that saw them crash and burn i am totally happy with something remaining successful as it is. The state of online games nowadays is not the 'play an mmorpg or an arena shooter and thats it' like it was in the mid 1990's for the majority. There is a wide library of things to do that offer niche experiences that are not meant for a wide audience and its much more varied and healthy to say "i'll get this experience from FFXIV, that experience from Splatoon 2 and this experience from Stardew Valley and maybe throw in some Overwatch" than playing one thing to the point of burnout or insane brand loyalty stockholme syndrome regardless of quality changes. The days of an mmorpg being your job game are long gone and if a game is a success there is no need to desire change just for a bigger userbase when that will always mean too many audiences screaming at the devs that they all want different things and think that specific thing is the only way to keep the game afloat leading the devs to try and serve too many masters and dilute what was perfectly fine beforehand.

Doesn't mean change is always bad, but change purely to chase a bigger audience you dont even know is there has, like i said and we all have games we love that died this way, completely gone to shit chasing that goal at the cost of everything else.

[Echo of Soul]

6 million, well i don't think and pretty much i don't know, it happend the same than WoW, they dont really realease sub numbers anymore

SE never released current sub numbers. They only release the number of players that've ever been subscribed to the game, and that's not really relevant other than "look, a lot of people have played our game at one point". In the end it doesn't really matter, my server is booming and feels a lot more populated than any server that I've been on in other mmorpgs and SE is a juggernaut so the game will continue to get quality content on a regular basis and that's all I can really ask for. As long as they don't try to cater to a bigger more casual audience the game will be awesome for us that play it.

[Wrecktangle]

^This. The "welp we locked in these guys, lets forget about them and chase another target audience without thinking if the actual audience we have will grow dissatisfied and leave and just repeat this as we mill through anyone who will ever be interested and then ride on nostalgia to plug the leaks during the inevitable decline that follows" strategy of change just to struggle to stay relevant is a sign of a developer designing a game to chase something they dont have rather than satisfy what they do. When you are stable and have an established, dedicated userbase doing that is usually the point the majority of your users abandone your platform and then you enter the decline period where you just rotate 'every other month' players and go 'b-but its cyclical right?' and wonder why all those people who played for years drop your game like a rock and move on. I'm all for innovation but if i want something really different i play a different game. Locking yourself into one thing till you get sick of it is for the birds.

What in Rhalgr's name are you going on about?

I didn't say that but change just for the sake of change can be a very damaging thing. Build on what you have, what works, tweak it if necessary in order to make it better, don't be afraid to revert to an earlier build if the tweaks didn't sit well with the players. Innovation and introducing new things is very good, trying to evolve the game just for the hell of it may distance you from your fans since they'll feel the game is devolving or changing.
For a game like FFXIV to really grow, they would have to change a lot of the core mechanics trying to chase after the players they don't have at the cost of the players they do have, sacrifice their vision of the game for that of a guy in a suit.

Fever people long term is always better than more people short term, at least when it comes to being able to look yourself in the mirror and for the sake of the fans you have at the moment.

Please focus on the actual questions I asked. You heavily implied that FF14 is a perfect game and any change to its existing paradigm would cause mass exodus and detriment to the game. You may not have said these words, but your posts very CLEARLY imply this.

I'm completely willing to overlook this ridiculously flawed statement to focus on the question I asked, which was: "What things in other games (specific examples) changed that caused you to quit or caused mass exodus. I don't want some philosophical rant about "change for the sake of change", etc. I want you to cite specific examples of features in ANY MMO that you felt slighted by and why they caused you to leave.

If you're unable to cite a single example that's fine, just say you don't have one. If you want to have an actual discussion you can attempt to criticize FF14's systems, but I suspect you won't.

your legendary (relic) is not mandatory, it is an optional path to players who enjoy that kind of thing

Nothing about the relic equates to WoW's "legendaries", let alone the Artifact. It's merely a prettier than normal skin on a stat stick.

those are my biggest gripes with the direction wow has been going. the whole "everyone gets a legendary" thing is so stupid. everyone doesn't need a legendary. they need to suck less or "git gud" as the kids say nowadays.

I think based on your text that you have an issue with the concept of a Legendary (i.e. you remember the good ol day's of having 1-2 people in raid with 1, versus everyone) and liked the old design paradigm better. That's fair. I personally don't care either way as I don't treat Legion Legendaries as actual legendaries, but just items with fun effects on them. FWIW I was the first person in my guild to get shadowmourne in a top 20 US guild, so I can appreciate that sentiment.

If they called Legion legendaries "relics" and they had red or gold text would you care as much? legitimate question.

gear in wow looks like garbage lol

Every MMO has some gear that looks downright stupid and some that are jaw dropping. If you're referring to graphical parity then of course FF14 wins as it's a significantly newer graphics capable engine.

transmog is super restrictive and no fun

Not sure I buy this. I can't glamour PLD gear as a DRG or vice versa.

FF14 doesn't allow belt or cape transmogs, but WoW doesn't allow earrings/necklace/rings.

Would you mind clarifying what SPECIFICALLY about tmog is "super restrictive"?

tead of getting a lot of unique raid content in wow, you get normal and lfr

You and I very likely define raid content differently. 24m's are not raiding content to me. They very rarely if ever require effort/coordination. Legion so far came out roughly a year ago, and has provided 4 unique raids totaling 29 unique bosses. In the same time frame FF14 would release approximately 19 unique bosses across either a single boss room, or 1 art asset.

Simple: you get way more dungeon/raid content in FFXIV.
WoW comes out with like, what, 8 dungeons at the start of every expansion? Then they put heroic mode on them... and it's the exact same thing lo

This statement is beyond misleading. In HW over the past year you get 18 dungeons. In FF14 we've gotten 13 (kara is technically 2 dungeons) dungeons in less than a year. The main difference is WoW allows you to run ANY of them at ANY given point in time at 'end game' whereas FF14 at best only allows 1-2. If you believe that running the same 2 dungeons over and over for 3+ months at a time is better than being able to run any of 12 dungeons for meaningful rewards and engagement let me know. Be prepared to cite examples as to how you arrived at your conclusion.

Why is this a game vs game thread? I get that you feel threatened that people are playing another game than you are but can't we just keep the WoW stuff in the WoW threads??

Ah typical fanboi response. When you can debate the merits with logic and examples result to accusing people of being threatened "oh god I'm so scared".

What the shit is there even for people to be threatened of? More competition between studios benefits us, the players. It makes them not lazy or complacent and incites innovation.

Honestly 24 man Savage is fine, Savage dungeons even better but 8 player seriously needs a 3rd difficulty if Savage right now can be cleared in a day or two.

I don't want to try and find 23 other people who can play at a savage level in this game. It's already impossible to replace one person in a static most of the time lol.

8m savage doesn't need more difficulty, it needs more content. The problem is bosses 1-2 are always free, and the last 2 might have an arbitrary wall, but can be mitigated with clever use of mechanics (healer/tank DPS, sac strats, etc.). What it needs is a better difficulty curve, of which you'd likely need more bosses to smooth it out.

My server is booming and feels a lot more populated than any server that I've been on in other mmorpgs and SE is a juggernaut so the game will continue to get quality content on a regular basis and that's all I can really ask for. As long as they don't try to cater to a bigger more casual audience the game will be awesome for us that play it.

1) What server are you on?

2) Can you define what you mean by "casual audience"?

[Eleccybubb]

SE never released current sub numbers. They only release the number of players that've ever been subscribed to the game, and that's not really relevant other than "look, a lot of people have played our game at one point". In the end it doesn't really matter, my server is booming and feels a lot more populated than any server that I've been on in other mmorpgs and SE is a juggernaut so the game will continue to get quality content on a regular basis and that's all I can really ask for. As long as they don't try to cater to a bigger more casual audience the game will be awesome for us that play it.

Hate to tell you this but it's been catering to a casual audience since the end of ARR-Start of Heavensward when they put Normal raids on the queue, 24 man raids easier, Dungeons even easier, Trials and EX trials even easier and so on.

So go ahead keep thinking that catering to the casual audience is bad. Because Square sure as hell disagree with you since the majority of Heavensward threw content out for casual players.

[Lynkeus]

Hate to tell you this but it's been catering to a casual audience since the end of ARR-Start of Heavensward when they put Normal raids on the queue, 24 man raids easier, Dungeons even easier, Trials and EX trials even easier and so on.

So go ahead keep thinking that catering to the casual audience is bad. Because Square sure as hell disagree with you since the majority of Heavensward threw content out for casual players.

Casuals have the money nowadays. HC players who is going to play the game, does it anyway. Companies need casual players' money because they are the majority today; who don't have too much time to play, but still want to. So throwing content for them is easy money. WoW does it now, FF does it, ESO does it.

[Gandrake]

Nothing about the relic equates to WoW's "legendaries", let alone the Artifact. It's merely a prettier than normal skin on a stat stick.

"Nothing", really? It's a long quest line that rewards a player with a powerful piece of equipment. But in FFXIV it is not mandatory, people do not expect you to have one. It is not the best item in the game. In fact, it is easier to acquire stronger gear by playing the game's content.

But in days past, cloak and ring were required to participate in even pug content in complete spite of the fact you cleared it on the hardest level of difficulty... Having it was literally worth more than knowing the fight and being able to explain it to people having difficulty with it.

I think based on your text that you have an issue with the concept of a Legendary (i.e. you remember the good ol day's of having 1-2 people in raid with 1, versus everyone) and liked the old design paradigm better. That's fair. I personally don't care either way as I don't treat Legion Legendaries as actual legendaries, but just items with fun effects on them. FWIW I was the first person in my guild to get shadowmourne in a top 20 US guild, so I can appreciate that sentiment.

If they called Legion legendaries "relics" and they had red or gold text would you care as much? legitimate question.

Would it have prevented what I have described? Absolutely not. It would have made no difference. It has nothing to do with nostalgia. I just plain don't feel like spending my free time having to do something I have already done just to play a different character. if you got WoD's legendary ring or MoP"s Legendary cloak on 1 character, you should have gotten it on all characters if players were going to require it.

I enjoy playing all the classes, but I am not going to do a legendary quest to play even 1 more class

Not sure I buy this. I can't glamour PLD gear as a DRG or vice versa.

FF14 doesn't allow belt or cape transmogs, but WoW doesn't allow earrings/necklace/rings.

Would you mind clarifying what SPECIFICALLY about tmog is "super restrictive"?

ok so basically you can only be super mario if you're clothy. you can't dye gear, either. you have to find some super rare item that only drops off a dusk boar in the middle of fucking nowhere that really isnt worth shit but it's personal value to you just because the shirt on these overalls is red instead of blue ones you can craft... even tho in promotional art you always see an orc in a loincloth swingin a big axe, you cant swing a big axe and wear a loincloth because you're restricted to plate gear.

if you want to run around in your underwear or a golden tuxedo tanking a boss in FFXIV it is no problem because FFXIV's development team are not the fun police, worrying about whether or not something looks too ridiculous.... I mean fuck you have cow people in your game running around saying moo and making jokes about "udder" defeat and kung fu pandas, but they're worried about looking silly? Ridiculously absurd is wow's style.

You and I very likely define raid content differently. 24m's are not raiding content to me. They very rarely if ever require effort/coordination. Legion so far came out roughly a year ago, and has provided 4 unique raids totaling 29 unique bosses. In the same time frame FF14 would release approximately 19 unique bosses across either a single boss room, or 1 art asset.

yeah and neither is LFR but FFXIV's LFRs are a million times better... Sometimes they drop gear that you actually want to use and it is awesome to fight old bosses that have had a prevalent presence in the Final Fantasy franchise. Raiders get gear that is better but it is not that much better. And player power level progression is another big problem in wow because every dumbass playing wow thinks they can outdps a gunshot to the face.

This statement is beyond misleading. In HW over the past year you get 18 dungeons. In FF14 we've gotten 13 (kara is technically 2 dungeons) dungeons in less than a year. The main difference is WoW allows you to run ANY of them at ANY given point in time at 'end game' whereas FF14 at best only allows 1-2. If you believe that running the same 2 dungeons over and over for 3+ months at a time is better than being able to run any of 12 dungeons for meaningful rewards and engagement let me know. Be prepared to cite examples as to how you arrived at your conclusion.

Roulettes, playing alt classes. If your friend is running a low lv dungeon for the first time, you can play with them even if you are max level. You can't do that in wow.

But that's one of the reasons I like FFXIV so much - they found a way to modernize their game to appeal to players with the luxuries they have in other games but keep players playing together. The endgame dungeon grind does need to be addressed but you can't expect FFXIV to outdo World of Warcraft at every edge of the game - they have less to work with.

[tikcol]

But it isn't. It is successful, but nowhere close to how Successful WoW is.

I always laugh when people think something has to be the exact same as its superior competitors to still be successful.

Define success..

[lawow74]

Define success..

In terms of revenue and influence upon its game genre, WoW is a resounding success. So much so its fame spread far and wide into cultural veins across the world and through all strata of society. As I remarked before, it wasn't a first-round pick for the Video Game Hall of Fame for nothing, nor was it a part of a Smithsonian exhibit on video games just by random happenstance. If you choose to define success by more subjective criteria, by all means, have at it. But from these objective standpoints, it very much is successful.

[Echo of Soul]

Snip

You seem very upset so I don't think I'm gonna trigger you any further with my opinions.

Hate to tell you this but it's been catering to a casual audience since the end of ARR-Start of Heavensward when they put Normal raids on the queue, 24 man raids easier, Dungeons even easier, Trials and EX trials even easier and so on.

So go ahead keep thinking that catering to the casual audience is bad. Because Square sure as hell disagree with you since the majority of Heavensward threw content out for casual players.

There's a huge difference between creating content for casual players and designing your entire base game experience around it. I think SquareEnix have pulled it off nicely and the content they've created for the casual players haven't affected the experience for the hardcore players negatively and more importantly I hasn't dumbed down the game and caused the community to devolve.

[Wrecktangle]

"Nothing", really? It's a long quest line that rewards a player with a powerful piece of equipment. But in FFXIV it is not mandatory, people do not expect you to have one. It is not the best item in the game. In fact, it is easier to acquire stronger gear by playing the game's content.

But in days past, cloak and ring were required to participate in even pug content in complete spite of the fact you cleared it on the hardest level of difficulty... Having it was literally worth more than knowing the fight and being able to explain it to people having difficulty with it.

Ok, now I better understand where you are coming from. You are talking about previous expansions, not the current state of the game where this is no longer accurate. FWIW I agree that the ring/cape weren't good approaches when taking into consideration late-comers and the overall impactfulness of said piece of gear

Would it have prevented what I have described? Absolutely not. It would have made no difference. It has nothing to do with nostalgia. I just plain don't feel like spending my free time having to do something I have already done just to play a different character. if you got WoD's legendary ring or MoP"s Legendary cloak on 1 character, you should have gotten it on all characters if players were going to require it.

I enjoy playing all the classes, but I am not going to do a legendary quest to play even 1 more class

Ok fair enough on the naming conventions, that was my misunderstanding.

So based on your post am I safe to assume you believe that doing the relic weapon for 1 job should entitle you to it across all jobs in FF14? It's an interesting thought. On one hand I don't like it, but on the other it'd benefit me enormously as a player who can barely stomach grinding one.

ok so basically you can only be super mario if you're clothy. you can't dye gear, either. you have to find some super rare item that only drops off a dusk boar in the middle of fucking nowhere that really isnt worth shit but it's personal value to you just because the shirt on these overalls is red instead of blue ones you can craft... even tho in promotional art you always see an orc in a loincloth swingin a big axe, you cant swing a big axe and wear a loincloth because you're restricted to plate gear.

I literally have no idea what the heck you are talking about here. I asked you to cite specific examples, not incoherently ramble on about swinging axes, jumping like super mario and wearing loincloths.

I previously detailed how in FF14 glamour is equally as restrictive which is why your post makes literally no sense.

Please take a deep breath and respond slowly.

if you want to run around in your underwear or a golden tuxedo tanking a boss in FFXIV it is no problem because FFXIV's development team are not the fun police, worrying about whether or not something looks too ridiculous.... I mean fuck you have cow people in your game running around saying moo and making jokes about "udder" defeat and kung fu pandas, but they're worried about looking silly? Ridiculously absurd is wow's style.

Speaking strictly personally I hate 'joke' looks. You should have every right to wear the look you want, but running around tanking in a thong, or wearing full plate mail as a white mage looks silly and breaks a game that otherwise does immersion quite a bit better than its peers.

yeah and neither is LFR but FFXIV's LFRs are a million times better... Sometimes they drop gear that you actually want to use and it is awesome to fight old bosses that have had a prevalent presence in the Final Fantasy franchise. Raiders get gear that is better but it is not that much better. And player power level progression is another big problem in wow because every dumbass playing wow thinks they can outdps a gunshot to the face.

You completely dismissed my entire analysis. You said you don't get any unique raid content in WoW when compared to FF14, but I very clearly showed you were incorrect.

If you want to discuss the relevance of gear rewards in LFR in WoW vs. 24M's in FF14 we can, but that wasn't what you specifically stated originally. Personally I don't understand why gear ilvl is of so much important to the average low-core player.

Roulettes, playing alt classes. If your friend is running a low lv dungeon for the first time, you can play with them even if you are max level. You can't do that in wow. But that's one of the reasons I like FFXIV so much - they found a way to modernize their game to appeal to players with the luxuries they have in other games but keep players playing together. The endgame dungeon grind does need to be addressed but you can't expect FFXIV to outdo World of Warcraft at every edge of the game - they have less to work with.

I mean, I could just take my main and run a person through an instance (you could in FF14 too). It's true that you can sync down with a friend though and that is a benefit over WoW's approach.

But again, you completely dismiss my analysis that you get "way more dungeon/raid content in FF14". I already showed you that is misleading and you ignored it in your response. You don't actually have a "end game roulette" you have an end-game coin flip. It's 1 or the other that are relevant for any 3.5-4 month span at a time.

I specifically asked if you prefer running the same 2 dungeons over and over for 3.5-4 months versus having a pool of 10+ dungeons to run at any given time that offer both meaningful rewards and challenges?

- - - Updated - - -

You seem very upset so I don't think I'm gonna trigger you any further with my opinions.

Upset? The only thing I am upset about is your blind fanaticism and lack of analytical comprehension. The simple fact that you are unable to participate in a non-safe space discussion and answer basic questions says a fair amount about your character than it does my state of mind LOL.

FWIW I'm not upset. Merely trying to get you to think a little deeper than your my little pony/hello kitty interests.

[Eleccybubb]

You seem very upset so I don't think I'm gonna trigger you any further with my opinions.



There's a huge difference between creating content for casual players and designing your entire base game experience around it. I think SquareEnix have pulled it off nicely and the content they've created for the casual players haven't affected the experience for the hardcore players negatively and more importantly I hasn't dumbed down the game and caused the community to devolve.

Uhm have you done every EX fight post Nidhogg? Or even been keeping upto date? They have dumbed down the game a lot. They haven't pulled it off nicely at all. Accessibility wise they have pretty much done the same stuff Blizzard have done where everyone can see it just they haven't added multiple layers of difficulties.

Again.

24 mans took a huge difficulty hit post ARR. Only good 24 man fight so far imo was Ozma for the new raids.
Dungeons got hit with it right after Amdapor Keep 2.0
8 mans had Normal put on the queue.
EX primals post Nidhogg were made easier because people were whining they were too hard. Seriously go compare Thordan and Nidhogg when they were current to Sophia and Zurvan.
Creator Savage took a hit because people were whining Midas was too hard. This came after people whined Gordias was too big a DPS check and wanted it to be about both DPS and Mechanics which ironically Midas Savage was.

They are appealing to a casual playerbase EXACTLY the same way most other games have done it. To deny that is blind fanaticism as posted above. Square have designed their game around casuals. This your hardcore content.

Savage raiding.
Ex Primals. Although with the recent difficulty of them that's debatable.
Palace of the Dead Floor 100 +.

Yeah FF14 totally doesn't design it's content around a casual playerbase when the majority of content is for them right?

[Senistian]

We can argue over wow vs ffxiv all day, but what I noticed about all this is, 6 million is growth over the, I think 4.5 million of HW. I could be wrong but I do know 6 million is growth through the last expansion, and thats good.

[Eleccybubb]

We can argue over wow vs ffxiv all day, but what I noticed about all this is, 6 million is growth over the, I think 4.5 million of HW. I could be wrong but I do know 6 million is growth through the last expansion, and thats good.

Well the 2.5 trailer says "2.5 million worldwide". So Heavensward saw a growth of at least 3-3.5 in lifetime users.

The thing is though it's still lifetime users. Not concurrent subs. I still maintain it's an amazing number for a game that launched poorly, had to be remade and then came back strong.

[lawow74]

The thing is though it's still lifetime users. Not concurrent subs. I still maintain it's an amazing number for a game that launched poorly, had to be remade and then came back strong.

In a genre where no other game I can think of launched poorly and managed to not only rally but rise above and grow, especially while remaining a sub-based game, FF14 is a true success story in that regard. Granted, some of that is due to the fact this is Square Enix we're talking about, but even so...

[Kyanion]

snip

I for one appreciate the time you are taking to write out those responses to Gandrake and Vidget, sadly Vidget would rather dodge the questions and Gandrake seems to be playing 'move the goalposts' when you point out specific examples such as being locked to a mighty 2 dungeons at the end.

You make many great points and highlight things both games do well and some things both games really need to work on. FF for sure really needs to do something about the 2 dungeon only queue.

[Eleccybubb]

I for one appreciate the time you are taking to write out those responses to Gandrake and Vidget, sadly Vidget would rather dodge the questions and Gandrake seems to be playing 'move the goalposts' when you point out specific examples such as being locked to a mighty 2 dungeons at the end.

You make many great points and highlight things both games do well and some things both games really need to work on. FF for sure really needs to do something about the 2 dungeon only queue.

Do what Blizzard do. Increase the ilvl of each 60/70 dungeon throughout the expansion and just have a 60 roulette rather than an Expert one.

[Kyanion]

Do what Blizzard do. Increase the ilvl of each 60/70 dungeon throughout the expansion and just have a 60 roulette rather than an Expert one.

On the subject of the level 50/60 roulette. Since I came back to the game holy hell are some of the requirements to unlock those silly. I had to look up like 20 different quests just to see where some of those dungeons even were. I mean some of the entries in what I needed to do to unlock them were ???. That was helpful, thanks game.

I'm with you though, find a way to have more dungeons in the roulette, I think that is what ruined the game for my gaming group the first go around when ARR came out was that we were limited to 2 dungeons and a primal for a while.

- - - Updated - - -

In a genre where no other game I can think of launched poorly and managed to not only rally but rise above and grow, especially while remaining a sub-based game, FF14 is a true success story in that regard. Granted, some of that is due to the fact this is Square Enix we're talking about, but even so...

No doubt it is quite the accomplishment, I can't think of any other game to fail so hard and then change their game and come back strong and continue to gain players.