Blizzard should make LFR`s harder!

[glowpipe]

There is already a harder lfr. Its called Normal. /End thread

[Bladesyphon]

Meh, only thing they should remove is sets/legendary drop/ap so we dont have to run it.

Because doing that in WoD, and costing them nearly half their subscribers, was such a brilliant design choice. It's fairly obvious Blizzard and their development team experienced with what would happen if they cut rewards from WoD, and made it pretty much a one and done thing for people - and it didn't go over well, at all. There's a reason why they reverted LFR's loot system back to how it was prior to WoD in Legion.

Taking things away from players that choose NOT to do higher difficulties, just to appease a small percentage of players that feel compelled to have to run literally everything, isn't the best way to retain the majority of people that play and pay for subs. If you don't like LFR, don't do it. There's plenty of other alternatives to gearing your character up, getting AP and Legendaries, that don't involve doing content you don't enjoy.

Honestly, LFR in Legion is fine. I'd like it to be closer to Mists in terms of difficulty, but it is what it is. It's content I enjoy, I don't feel obligated to run higher difficulties beyond LFR and occasionaly Normal if I feel bored, and I don't feel like my character's progression is being stunted for it like it was in WoD. The system works just fine, there's no reason to change it. Honestly, Legion's pretty much solidified how instance content should be handled going forward in my eyes.

There's a difficulty mode for everyone, a crossed all group sizes. And that's the way it should be, and remain.

[Thage]

Balancing the game around bleeding-edge min/max is why we had WoD, and, uh, spoilers, that didn't go over so well. It isn't Blizzard's job to save you from yourself, and at this point maybe the Mythic raiding scene needs this crisis point it's approaching. Guilds are imposing unrealistic standards of play on their raiders and promoting unhealthy playstyles, pushing players to consume in days what was balanced to be consumed over weeks if not months.

But stamping your feet and demanding to have your hand held because you can't resist the urge to run something you hate for an extra 0.00005%? If you need the extra 2 DPS to down a boss so desperately that you'll spend weeks grinding LFR for an infinitesimal chance at a legendary item, your gear isn't the problem at hand. Work with your team on sucking less.

[Protean]

LFR bosses just needs some mechanics checks to unlock additional ilvl loots.

Sure you can AFK through, but you'll want to complete challenges (think m+, but with mechanics/damage instead of just mobcount) every boss to get a shot at the nice stuff. Dying to certain mechanics should just remove loot eligibility.

[anveena]

So every boss becomes week 1 gul'dan where you wipe several times and keep replacing a handful of players each time. Sounds like fun. If you want to raid on a harder difficulty then go pug normal mode.

Meh, only thing they should remove is sets/legendary drop/ap so we dont have to run it.

Removing gear and ap from LFR because a minority of players have no self-control is dumb.

[BiggestNoob]

Removing gear and ap from LFR because a minority of players have no self-control is dumb.

It has nothing to do with self control.

If Blizzard put a chest in WoW that gave you 940 gear in every slot, then people said "this is stupid, take it out", you'd surely show up and say "well don't blame Blizzard on these people's lack of self control, if they really wanted a challenge in mythic raiding progression they'd just not use the chest!" It's a stupid argument, and everyone here is dumber for having read it.

[Osmeric]

Balancing the game around bleeding-edge min/max is why we had WoD, and, uh, spoilers, that didn't go over so well. It isn't Blizzard's job to save you from yourself,

And if it WAS Blizzard's job to do that, the easiest way would be to simply delete anything resembling mythic mode raiding. They've already signaled by this expansion's changes that making mythic raiders is not as all-important to them as it was in the past.

[nekobaka]

The bulk of the changes that benefited "mythic" raiders benefited the log in and raid club has been going on since WotLK and targeted towards intro and midcores more than hardcore oriented players. Those changes did more to close the gap between casual and hardcore raiders. The hardcore still have an advantage over midcore and casual guilds. A lot of the "mythic" complaints are coming from guilds that just are not hardcore enough along with intro, midcore, and even non-raiders.

[Radaney]

Right now, if u are a ranged DPS you pretty much just DPS and don`t stand in s**t.. thats all.
But I play ONLY ranged DPS!

Hell that's what I do in Mythic.

[Daffan]

How exactly do people even enjoy LFR.

(12 year olds who just started playing and get amazed easily aren't my target audience for this question)

[Raelbo]

It's mostly true though, people think LFR is raiding.

Which people? I have never ever seen any evidence that any LFR players (let alone "most") think LFR is comparable to real raiding. It seems to me that this perception of LFR raiders with delusions of grandeur has been created entirely by a group of elitists who, great though they may be at playing computer games, are seriously lacking in understanding how other human beings think.

- - - Updated - - -

I honestly don't think the guy you are quoting is incorrect.

His opinion is that "LFR exists primarily to give the bottom 80% of players....the illusion that they're able to defeat the end-game content". I am not sure how your argument (most of which I actually agree with) shows that he is not incorrect....

There is absolutely no reason to make it harder because anyone who WANTS harder content can VERY easily go do normal mode. Blizzard knows who the target audience is for LFR and they intend to keep those people happy, and that's fine.

Firstly let me clarify a bit here: I am not arguing that LFR in general needs to be made harder. I am arguing that as an expansion progresses, lower tier LFR wings should be made selectively a bit harder based on group gear strength.

The reason I think this would be a good thing is because, at present, EN LFR bosses are dying so fast that it detracts from the already limited experience offered by LFR. If the bosses had more HP then it would at least enable people to see the fights and some of the mechanics. These days you simply never see, for example:

• Nythendra's sleep phase
• Elerethe's second form and the flying across the chasm thing
• The different dragons
• Cenarius's adds
• Ursoc's charge

The fights end much too quickly, often before the end of bloodlust even. LFR doesn't exactly offer a lot to the players, but what it does offer is the chance to see the fights and at least have some fun using your abilities to damage/heal/tank (even if at a very rudimentary level). There is, I believe, a need to make the LFR experience a bit more engaging than it currently is. That doesn't mean that it should be difficult for groups to finish it, or that more groups need to wipe, simply that in the current context, EN LFR is a joke, even by LFR standards.

So what I would support is:

• Make LFR bosses HP and damage scale with average ilevel of the group. This should be done such that bosses still die quicker with better gear but not as quickly as they do currently (so for example, you should see maybe a 50% reduction in kill time throughout the expansion as opposed to a 75% reduction between tiers)
• Increase the chances of WF/TF on gear with the increase in ilevel/hp/damage

- - - Updated - - -

It has nothing to do with self control.

You're wrong it has everything to do with self control

If Blizzard put a chest in WoW that gave you 940 gear in every slot, then people said "this is stupid, take it out", you'd surely show up and say "well don't blame Blizzard on these people's lack of self control, if they really wanted a challenge in mythic raiding progression they'd just not use the chest!" It's a stupid argument, and everyone here is dumber for having read it.

Demonstrating that a strawman argument you just constructed is stupid doesn't prove anything. If anything, the fact that you have to resort to attempting the use of such a primitive fallacy demonstrates the weakness of what you are trying to argue.

- - - Updated - - -

How exactly do people even enjoy LFR.

I have generally enjoyed LFR. It's a low stress chance to take your character and play with your abilities against a moving target. WoW is still an RPG and a lot of what that means is doing damage to kill stuff. Doing it in a group with 24 other players makes it a little more fun.

True, it's not nearly as much enjoyment as actual raiding, but when you aren't busy with something else in the game it makes for a small diversion. Also I think a lot of the potential for enjoyment comes from you. I personally still try to do the mechanics on LFR bosses (even if it's not mandatory) while trying to maximise my performance, so I actually engage with the content. And some of the most fun to be had is when you have quite a lot of bad players which makes the rather more challenging.

I will admit though that I can't see how standing in the fire while not bothering to try to perform at all (as some LFR players do choose to do) can be all that much fun.

What is also fun is watching some of the daft things people do. I laughed so hard the other day watching someone die on Elisande because they ran with the arcanetic rings. Seeing players heroic leap or disengage off platforms (eg Gul'dan, Mannoroth) is also funny.

[Nize]

I remember when LFRs had some degree of challenge to them, notably SoO. It ranked amongst the most toxic experiences I've ever seen in this game. And this is coming from a person who runs with a bunch of ego-driven, elitist mythic raiders 4-5 nights a week.

LFR is fine in the difficulty that it's at because I don't trust the people I'm put in there with to be able to play at the level that LFR currently is at to begin with. So, for those who are truly against LFR, I can suggest 1 of 2 things. Either a) ignore it completely or b) see what you can get out of it. I typically go the b route. Notably, I take my army of alts through LFR to net me augment runes for my main's raids, shoot for legendaries on said alts, and hone my own personal skills with different specs. From my personal experience pugging normal raids, there's many of you that need to work on that last point.

[laumotor]

I prefer blizzard introduce the lfr 1st before normal raid to players so let players know the basic mechanic,easy for casual ppl join pug after the normal raid debut.Alot of players cant join normal pug or not dare to join because they don't even know what inside and what to do,this is why lfr so popular in game,lfr never reject player.

[Deleted]

I prefer blizzard introduce the lfr 1st before normal raid to players so let players know the basic mechanic,easy for casual ppl join pug after the normal raid debut.Alot of players cant join normal pug or not dare to join because they don't even know what inside and what to do,this is why lfr so popular in game,lfr never reject player.

Or they could read the dungeon journal before pugging.

[Blackheart87]

Blizzard have to simply Make Normal in the LFR, the LFR must be a simple NORMAL matchmaking.
Matchmaking must not be "simple". Heroic in older content wasn't simple. Everyone can complete all normal at the end of expansion.

[Deleted]

I think there should be only one difficulty... but people get their pants in a twist if you say these things.

The encounters should have a hard mode like in ulduar and there. Problem solved. No more burning out, no more ilvl inflation and everyone on the same playing field.

Can't invest time on raiding? No problem, make dungeon sets and mythic+ is your game.

Though raid tier would have to be stronger.

[Raelbo]

Blizzard have to simply Make Normal in the LFR, the LFR must be a simple NORMAL matchmaking.

At the moment that would probably work fine for EN, but not for NH. The idea of making older LFR tiers available on a harder difficulty is fine but you also have to take into account practical considerations:

If you make LFR for each instance available on multiple difficulties then it would enable people to choose their difficulty, but it would have several problems including: diluting the pool of players for each LFR wing (making matchmaking less effective); noobs entering higher LFR difficulties in the hopes of better loot.

If you have only 1 LFR difficulty, then it might make it too hard for those not up to the task, thereby excluding them.

This is why I would rather advocate a scaling mechanism based on the average ilevel of the group.

Matchmaking must not be "simple". Heroic in older content wasn't simple.

What heroic was or was not is irrelevant to what LFR should be. LFR has been designed to cater for a different audience entirely.

Everyone can complete all normal at the end of expansion.

Unacceptable. People want to participate in new content when it's new. Setting LFR to a difficulty level distinct from normal accomodates this. Not that there is anything wrong with going back and doing the content later if you missed out when it was new, but it would be a terrible decision to force that on the vast majority of the playerbase.

[Osmeric]

Unacceptable. People want to participate in new content when it's new.

Right. If you're going to wait to do it, you might as well wait until the next expansion. The gear will be irrelevant in any case.

Obviously that fails to retain your sub over an expansion, which is the reason any content exists at all.

[Jimson]

I think there should be only one difficulty... but people get their pants in a twist if you say these things.

The encounters should have a hard mode like in ulduar and there. Problem solved. No more burning out, no more ilvl inflation and everyone on the same playing field.

Can't invest time on raiding? No problem, make dungeon sets and mythic+ is your game.

Though raid tier would have to be stronger.

You think there should be one difficulty... with hard modes? That's not one difficulty. That's at least 2, and varying gear tiers, just like we have now.

Not to mention everyone loves to point at how awesome Uld hard modes were, but no one remembers how shitty some of them were to trigger, and how one was just "hey, push this button."

[Deleted]

You think there should be one difficulty... with hard modes? That's not one difficulty. That's at least 2, and varying gear tiers, just like we have now.

Not to mention everyone loves to point at how awesome Uld hard modes were, but no one remembers how shitty some of them were to trigger, and how one was just "hey, push this button."

Thats still one lockout. But sure, its like its two but its integrated.