The Arena Mentality in WoW

[Deleted]

Ok OP so besides the .gif spam whats the point here? You don't think we are real pvpers because we arena. OK. Im multi glad and also HOTA/SOTA/DOTA and Warbound. I have a total of less than 100 duels in my 13 yrs wow. I have killed 300k players in all kinds of pvp.

I was about to agree with you that of all sorts of pvp arena is the least skill based of all since all you have to do is memorize a specific playstyle and reflect on other comps playstyles so more or less like learning a book by heart.

But even that takes skill. Even that takes you and 2 more people who can learn to play together at a very high level of reflecting on others actions.

So in my view looking back at pvp:

World pvp was always a gank or get ganked experience. The ganker always has/had/will have the upper hand. The ganked will always be the gankers bitch esp when outnumbered. Take it or leave it its like when a pack of lions meets a gazelle. The gazelle can only run. And thats that. So no thats not "pvp" in any sense or form get over it.

South Shore vs Tarren Mill experience: That was the only open world pvp that ever made sense. It stopped making sense when blizzard decided to "unite" everyone against the even bigger evils. It also stopped making sense once the player could get out in the open flying and/or when the player could monetize from his outdoor experiences. Who gives a fuck for ganking when they are losing gold they could be earning in that time.

Random BG: The other massive fallacy of wow. That random BG is pvp. Its just a way for bots and casuals to get some half-assed gear. Same as arena used to be for the minimum effort of 10 games/week to get your 1 piece and ignore all the elitists who didnt want you in their raids because your armory pve sucked.

RBG: The only resemblance of what wow pvp could be but then it had a giant dick stuck in every shape and form by random wankers who monetized from the wankers who decided they wanted to pay their dad's hard earned money to acquire titles etc.

So there you have it. All the forms of pvp dicked by the people they were made for. You and me. And everyone else who didn't want to play properly and keep a pace but treated wow like they would an iphone game. Binge play get rewarded then fuck off until the next patch.

With that sort of shit player mentality its no wonder that wow pvp sucks and same shit is about to happen for the pve scene as well. But no I wouldn't dare call any of that "real pvp" even when I hold so many titles.

And no titles don't mean shit because 1v1 you will always lose to some classes due to mechanics so none of the titles reflects on you as an individual player but they do reflect on your entire team. So yeah its inherently unfair to judge a player by their titles since it could be any team that helped them get theirs. But since the game must have a starting point and an end and people binge play so they need marked points there you have it a wowprogress says anything we need to know about you even if its never all about you.

First of all, I have no idea why you felt the need to state what titles you got from that minigame since I've said multiple times in here that I don't take Glads or R1s seriously.

But I agree with some of what you're saying except about the ganking and dueling parts.

Ganking was a part of WoW PvP because it meant you weren't always safe out in the world, you had to be on alert all the time. You had to be prepared for a random fight out of nowhere and survive. That's what made the world so exciting and fun, because you never really knew if you were gonna stumble into a huge clusterfuck of a 40 vs 40 deathmatch in the middle of Ashenvale.

And if you had a problem with someone ganking you then there was always the option to duel them and beat them.

Which brings me to your comments about duels not taking skills due to mechanics and shit.

I'm talking about 3.3.5 WOTLK when I refer to duels, which I've played for 6 years, I played since Vanilla and all the way up until the end of WOTLK when Cata was released. And then I went to play on a 3.3.5 WOTLK private server called Arena Tournament and I played there for 6 years.

So to make this quick, I'll quote some previous posts here to show you that duels took more skill than being in a team with a healer and an extra DPs who kept you alive the entire time.

When I was referring to duels, I meant the TBC/WOTLK eras and I figured that I got my point across when I said Vanilla was a stupid time for WPvP but apparently not so. And during the time in TBC/WOTLK Glads/R1s disregarded duels as meaningless and that mentality caught on quickly because they were the hottest new thing in town. So I don't disagree that duels mean nothing post WOTLK and I don't disagree that duels were stupid in Vanilla.

TBC/WOTLK were the finest periods in WoW's history for PvP alone. That's what I was talking in the OP and if people didn't understand that then I'm sorry, I'm writing it here now.

The Warrior was using PvE gear pieces like trinkets and sacrificed some resi gems for ARP gems, I simply used some stamina gems with more resilience gems in order to tank his stupidly OP damage and used a different technique to beat him due to how OP his gear was compared to mine.

But in WOTLK, skill>gear. You could be in full Wrathful with the T2 weapon, you've got the HC DBW trinket and the HC Scales trinket and you would still get your ass handed to you by a decent player who knew how to 1v1 well, I want to say "duelist" but since that title got taken by arenas... I don't know what else to use instead.

It was pure skill that got you the win in duels, if you knew your stuff and if you could predict your opponent's moves then you would certainly be able to pull it off. Dueling well geared players with bad gear was more like a duel between the Mountain and Oberyn, you had to be very careful or you'd die painfully. That's what I'd say 3.3.5 WOTLK PvP was like in duels and WPvP in general. But if you were equal in gear then trust me, the guy would lose and you'd barely lose any health due to the fact that you outplayed him before he could even use his first three moves.

Also, the reason why I appear as a blood elf is because I'm using the Orb of Sin'dorei, my character was a Draenei female.

More health didn't always mean better gear because of the fact that you could stamina stack repeatedly in order to get your desired amount of health, back then it was more about the stats on your gear that allowed you to perform better and allowed you have a higher amount of resilience in order to mitigate damage.

Relentless gear was at around 251 and the weapon was around 245, the T2 version was 258 I believe. Wrathful Gladiator gear was at 264 item level and the Wrathful weapon was 264 as well, the T2 version was 277, and on that server you could use the 277 version.

So I was vastly outgeared in both resi + damage, so I had to use resi gems to reduce damage taken and use a specific tactic involving kiting him and slowly bringing him down by outplaying his moves made.

Just an edit, I used more PvP gear than PvE, which is what also added to the bigger health pool making it higher than my opponent's health pool.

I will link my PvP video here which shows myself playing my Warrior main that I've played for 12 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5V5a_p0mqI


Also another quote from myself to explain a bit further into it:

Classes were balanced for 1v1 in 3.3.5 WOTLK and I know this because I've been playing it for 6 years, there is ALWAYS a way that you can win a duel against any class, no matter how stupidly hopeless it was, you could still recover and win in the end if you had the skill.

I am not talking about current duels in today's WoW so I don't know why you brought up World PvP, it's garbage and not even a shadow of it's former self.

That's true, you use teamwork and that means that the player individually isn't good, but he's good with two other teammates, what does that make him when he doesn't have those two teammates around? You know the answer to that, I think

Glads and R1s don't possess excellent 1v1ing skills, they're only useful in an arena match where they can use arena123 macros and have a healer behind them keeping them alive and an extra DPs to help them score a kill in the match. I've said this already, if you read the OP I've explained the reason why they're not nearly as good as everybody would like to think they are.

The Warrior at the 3:24 mark in the PvP video I linked above is a multiglad Warrior, on retail and on that private server, look at how I am outplaying him in shit gear. And yet, he's supposed to be Glad, isn't he supposed to just rofloneshot me because he's SO good at "PvP"?

No, duels were a measurement of skill during WOTLK when damage was sensible, when we had resilience and a lot of abilities, talents and glyphs to outplay certain classes and their specs.

I agree with duels taking no skill due to mechanics in any other time period other than 3.3.5 WOTLK, but in this one, I've played it for so long that I can confirm that it's the most balanced patch and expansion ever released in WoW's history, I have no doubts about it.

Other than that, I agree with the rest, WoW PvP has gone to shit and as a result, people don't give a fuck anymore.

[shoegazing]

I loved World PvP back in Classic WoW. It was awesome and definitely made me fall in love with the game. That was before we had CRZ and flying mounts, though.

Arena doesn't offer the same excitement for a new player, probably. But for a veteran who has already fallen in love with the game, it offers a lot of depth and fun problem solving challenges.

Arena and World PvP even existed side by side in TBC for a while with the Isle of Quel Danas patch. I would log onto the game, head to that isle (where flying was disabled) and hang out there participating in the big world PvP battles. Then when my arena teammates logged on we would all do a little WPvP together to warm up before jumping into our arena queues. If the WPvP got hot at any point we would take a break from queuing to wreck some nerds and then when they retreated we would go back to our queues. Fun times.

Arena isn't what killed WPvP, OP. CRZ and flying mounts did that.

Now ability pruning has killed arena as well, so that's two forms of PvP that I loved that are dead or dying. Arena participation on the NA ladder was 331,000 characters in MoP s15. It's under 75,000 characters currently.

[Lykaboss]

and as i have said before a demon hunter is not my main and it for sure isnt my pvp main !! still waiting on you telling me your characters name and server??
and you keep saying 1v1 is fairest...1v1 will never be fair until every class has perfect balance and that will never happen! honestly read your comments on this thread you clearly got farmed in arena and rushed right to mmo-c to vent your anger, its hilarious! "glads have no skill, r1 is so easy" you sound like a classic QQer

[Deleted]

and as i have said before a demon hunter is not my main and it for sure isnt my pvp main !! still waiting on you telling me your characters name and server??
and you keep saying 1v1 is fairest...1v1 will never be fair until every class has perfect balance and that will never happen! honestly read your comments on this thread you clearly got farmed in arena and rushed right to mmo-c to vent your anger, its hilarious! "glads have no skill, r1 is so easy" you sound like a classic QQer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5V5a_p0mqI

I see myself farming Glads and R1s in this video, so... I'm not too sure what you're talking about.

And 1v1 was fair in 3.3.5 WOTLK, please read the thread before posting. I won't repeat myself again.

Also, the only character you log is Lykaboss so honestly, I think you're lying about it not being your main.

You should've just not replied, you dug yourself a bigger hole by responding lol.

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I loved World PvP back in Classic WoW. It was awesome and definitely made me fall in love with the game. That was before we had CRZ and flying mounts, though.

Arena doesn't offer the same excitement for a new player, probably. But for a veteran who has already fallen in love with the game, it offers a lot of depth and fun problem solving challenges.

Arena and World PvP even existed side by side in TBC for a while with the Isle of Quel Danas patch. I would log onto the game, head to that isle (where flying was disabled) and hang out there participating in the big world PvP battles. Then when my arena teammates logged on we would all do a little WPvP together to warm up before jumping into our arena queues. If the WPvP got hot at any point we would take a break from queuing to wreck some nerds and then when they retreated we would go back to our queues. Fun times.

Arena isn't what killed WPvP, OP. CRZ and flying mounts did that.

Now ability pruning has killed arena as well, so that's two forms of PvP that I loved that are dead or dying. Arena participation on the NA ladder was 331,000 characters in MoP s15. It's under 75,000 characters currently.

MOP was the worst expansion I've ever seen exist for any video game in the world so it's completely irrelevant.

PvP participation was much higher in WOTLK because there were 12 million players playing it. I believe I even linked a graph showing how subscribers dropped rapidly after WOTLK into Cataclysm and in MOP it declined even further until WOD where it went to the lowest point where it was similar to 2005 WoW's sub count.

Please don't ever try to use MOP as a base for any sort of logical debate again because MOP is the most garbage expansion I've ever witnessed, the entire thing was a convoluted pruned mongoloid shitfest where talents got pruned, abilities became braindead and basically made an expansion like Legion possible just by existing in the first place.

I feel insulted just by the fact you mentioned it in my thread.

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Sounds like the OP got farmed this morning in some Arena. LOL

Reminds me of this > > >

"ARCANE Explosionnnnn"

I don't do arenas, so I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion.

I actually farmed Glads and R1s back in the day in duels, they're responsible for making up the majority of my wins on my win/loss stats in duels.






Those tears though, lmao.

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3v3 arenas are definitely the most accurate measurement of skill in WoW.

Stopped taking you seriously after reading that.

The rest of what you've written makes no sense, has no basis on the reality of things and you've clearly not read the OP or any other post in this thread and adamantly came in here determined to defend the only thing that you're "good" at and that's a minigame people call arenas.

Also, the last expansion where PvP was great was WOTLK, MOP was a disgusting mess that shouldn't even be mentioned here.

Arenas is a minigame and MOP was the worst expansion to date.

Also, I'm gonna repeat myself for the 10th time in this thread, when I talk about duels, I'm talking about 3.3.5 WOTLK, where it was the most balanced ever in WoW's history.

Cataclysm isn't even on the radar for any sort of discussion on class or PvP balance, so I don't know why you even brought it up.

And tournaments? For a minigame? I'd sooner take chess competitions seriously than I would with tournaments for a minigame, sorry.

[Deleted]

Trust me I wasnt trying to tell you "oh look at me how cool I am" I just meant it as a "played this played that and I can have an opinion".

The problem is that wow evolves. It would be like saying 1996-2000 was a golden age for EU and prosperity etc. But things change and things usually change for the worst. Part of your excellent wotlk experience was that there was an entirely different playerbase.

Then the "innocence" was lost. The game became even more technical. PvP was tweaked by some very bad people who mainly kept it all the same due to lack of imagination.

Blizzard probably caved in too many times to complaints which is also a problem. Last but not least, entry of new classes in game evolved it in an uncontrollable manner. Old classes remained static while new classes struggled to fit in and the easy way out was always chosen "make em op for several patches till people get used to them". This happened with monk same happens now with DH and same happened with DK at first.

It also took a lot of bad community to reach where we are. A community that cannot handle racials because omg that one CD makes the whole difference. If you ask me the biggest aids for the game is the min/max generation of players. They are the ones who control the game in reality and devs are their bitches.

Making a night elf used to mean something. Making an orc also. Now its more like uhmmmm this one has bigger tits lets go with that. And thats about all the choice you get. The size of tits. As for pvp...what a joke nowdays. What a joke. Oh and lets make seasons even tinier so only the same old people can get titles. Id love to see some new blood challenge us at high level but no never.

I fully agree with everything you've written here, I've been thinking the same thing.

It's the new generation of WoW players that have slowly turned this game into the damage fest it is today, nothing has any meaning anymore other than the amount of damage you can output and how quickly you can oneshot.

I think there won't be any solutions for this because even the old players like you and I have changed a lot and are a far cry from what we were like in Vanilla or TBC, our mentality has changed over the years as well so even if we DID have legacy servers, they just wouldn't be the same due to the fact that the community from those times have disappeared completely. We may still have some traits leftover from those times like wanting to help others and give advice but that's not nearly enough for what we had back then.

The only reason those times were fun was first and foremost the community that existed back then, secondly the gameplay was fun as well and allowed us a lot of options to play exactly how we wanted to play.

I agree profusely with what you've written here and this is exactly the problem of the whole thing that's going on in WoW, both PvP and PvE, I've never went on RPing realms or really knew what they were like but I hear that even RP realms are having trouble staying up because of the new community being extremely toxic about everything.

Everything is falling apart because the core values of Blizzard that they once held with pride are being ignored in the name of making more money and turning WoW into an Esport to keep up in the competitive gaming market. And while Blizzard is to blame for the majority of this by adding CRZ which effectively disabled our ability to police our own communities on our own realms, the rest of the blame lands on us for not keeping to our core values as well and transforming to the new mentality and not trying to fight back this new community that have no idea how to socialize, how to not be toxic and have such a big self entitlement attitude which led to them whining about every single little inconvenient thing in the game and like you said, Blizzard caving in to those new players and ripping out core elements of the game like having to run to dungeons or raids, having to travel all over the world, having to do professions to farm gold, having to grind rep for certain things and having to learn how to play properly in order to PvP well.

And also, it was Blizzard's arrogance that made them think that the new players made up the majority of our playerbase and catered to them only. Ignoring their loyal players that had played since the beginning of WoW and even the Warcraft games before that.

[Lykaboss]

you posting a video of "you" (apparently) pvping on a PRIVATE SERVER and calling it skill LMAO private servers a riddled with bugs. also i can see where you get your attitude from now!
and how can you possibly know what characters i log? xD explain
you dig yourself a hole with every idiotic reply to this thread you make! youre correct about the attitude of pvpers but thats about it !

[tikcol]

is by far the most ridiculous and shocking thing that i never thought would evolve beyond what it was back in tbc.

Back in tbc, i regarded arenas as a simple minigame meant for fun.

Fastforward today people are treating glads and r1s like gods and like they're untouchable, toxic arguments consist of spam linking achievements of x rating and saying "ha, i'm higher rated than you! I'm better than you obviously". You have people being put down and being told they can't make an opinion because their rating is not at x number, even if you get glad you'll be told "oh well you don't have r1, stfu".

It is beyond ridiculous to me and i see so many new players and noobs getting sucked in by this mentality. Poor them! They don't even know what's going on! They just barely started, opened up their game and downloaded their addons that they read up on a guide and just started playing.

So i'm gonna disassemble this arena mentality and explain to you exactly the truth about arenas.

Arenas is a minigame, there isn't any disputing that. Arenas has absolutely no basis on actual pvp and should never have been regarded as such, the game was balanced around pve aka world pvp. That's why duels, bgs and raiding cities in the open world worked and was found to be fun by players all over the world.

But what about the rogues who oneshotted with ambu- yes, vanilla was a stupid time for world pvp but that's why we brought more people to gank them, and then they brought more people to gank us and it became an all out 40 vs 40 deathmatch in the middle of the fucking crossroads.

World pvp was the real pvp.

Duels were an indicator of whether one was better than the other, that doesn't count for any expansion post wotlk but back then? Duels were a show of skill and outplaying. There was nobody else in there to help you if you made mistakes, there was no extra dps to give you the damage boost and cc you needed to score a victory. It was all you and him, and if you messed up you were punished harshly for it.

Arenas is nowhere near an indicator of individual skill, that's why i get very confused when people flame a single person's rating. It's like dude, you don't get that rating all by yourself, you get that rating with two other people and that's called teamwork. Absolutely nothing to do with your individual skill. And wow is not a moba so i don't know why you're pissing your pants over this stuff.

In arenas, you are allowed to use macros like arena123 macros, which i find to be extremely mongoloid, these macros allow a mage to sit in the center of the map and literally spam frostbolt + polymorph any poor shmuck that gets too close without ever having to switch targets. Like, i'm looking around me thinking "yo is anyone actually seeing this? This is okay with you guys?" like you people are fucking nuts if you think that this is the pinnacle of skill in wow.

Running around in a claustrophobic box with 4 pillars, take your pick at humping any one pillar of your liking and spamming arena123 macros is not wow pvp, that's a goddamn moba.

And now let's move onto the gladiators and r1s, get prepared for the brutal truth; you're not nearly as good as you'd like to think you are. You worked with a team to achieve your rating, you did not carry the entire team to 2.9k and get everybody the r1 title, you worked with them and they worked with you. You go in and your healer keeps you alive making sure you don't die and your extra dps can be there to help you score a kill quickly.

Gladiators and r1s are absolutely terrified of duels, that's why they've disregarded them as "meaningless" and "not real pvp" and they've spewed this crap in their streams, to their friends and to anybody who asks. This has been going on for so long that this mentality has caught on so well that new players will defend this idea to their very deaths.

There's a reason why arena players are wary of doing 2s, it's because it's the closest they'll ever get to 1v1ing anyone. "wahh wahh i can't kill this healer by myself!! 2s is unbalance!! Wahh!" so that's why they moved to 3s, because they don't only have a healer there to fix any stupid mistakes they make that would've otherwise killed them in a 1v1 situation, they also have an extra dps so they can mongo down a kill target quickly. Sounds awfully similar to ganking if you ask me to be honest lol which happened a lot in wpvp, when you couldn't kill someone by yourself? Get a friend to help you! Hell yeah!

This whole arena mentality sickens me to the core, the fact that these arena players are now in power and can dictate what "real pvp" is makes me disgusted. Arenas is not real pvp and never will be, it is a minigame and always will be.

Majority of players do arenas because they know they can't 1v1 anybody for shit and thus they do arenas to give themselves an ego boost so they can sit in orgrimmar or dalaran with their glad/r1 title and mount and just afk, just watching everyone target you as your ego meter fills up. Of course there's always those who legitimately enjoys doing arenas but why play wow when you can play a superior form of this minigame like league of legends? Oh well.

Just know that any one of these players inspecting you can fully and irrevocably kick your ass in a 1v1 situation where your healer isn't behind you making sure your stupid ass isn't dead because you're bad at the game.

So now that arenas was taken a bit more seriously than just a mere minigame, all these changes over the past couple of expansions reflected a lot on that until we've reached today's state, where we are literally one step away from playing an actual moba game.

so i propose some solutions that could fix this nasty situation:

add pvp rewards for world pvp akin to arena rewards, same item level of gear, different titles, mounts etc, you know the whole gig, like the honor system back in vanilla where you could buy champions and high warlord gear pieces for marks of wsg/ab/av etc. That way players can choose to do arenas or world pvp, they're not forced to do something they absolutely hate just to be able to get some kind of reward in pvp.

Return resilience so people stop getting instagibbed in this retarded expansion and unprune abilities, add more bgs, add more world pvp objectives to take over certain towers or points like in halaa, silithus or hellfire pennisula. Offer significant rewards for those objectives, not endgame level but enough to attract players to socialize and work with their faction to achieve it.

Delete crz. Like just straight up delete that shit, that shit is the leading cause for why the wow community has gone to shit, realms have lost their identities and communities, trolls and toxic players can swoop in and out with little to no repercussions for what they do or say. If you're about to die in wpvp, what do you know, just join a group from another realm and phase out. Players no longer talk to each other, they don't coordinate, they just queue and stay silent the whole time, like it's a single player game.

Removing crz would help to create a sense of community and revitalize world pvp a lot, even in this state i wouldn't say it's too late to fix this.



Arenas will never be a part of world of warcraft, just get over it and start playing the game for what it really is, an open world game.

duel me bro

[Deleted]

you posting a video of "you" (apparently) pvping on a PRIVATE SERVER and calling it skill LMAO private servers a riddled with bugs. also i can see where you get your attitude from now!
and how can you possibly know what characters i log? xD explain
you dig yourself a hole with every idiotic reply to this thread you make! youre correct about the attitude of pvpers but thats about it !

That private server has been up for 6 years and it was the most Blizz-like private server I've ever seen and it was widely popular all over the world, it was bug free and had excellent PvP tuning.

So no, it wasn't riddled with bugs and it was actually like WOTLK but on a private server.

And I know what characters you log because I've had you on Battlenet for a while, so all the while you're giving me this attitude, I know who you are and what you're like and how you play.

Just stop lol.

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duel me bro

wargame me bro

[tikcol]

That private server has been up for 6 years and it was the most Blizz-like private server I've ever seen and it was widely popular all over the world, it was bug free and had excellent PvP tuning.

So no, it wasn't riddled with bugs and it was actually like WOTLK but on a private server.

And I know what characters you log because I've had you on Battlenet for a while, so all the while you're giving me this attitude, I know who you are and what you're like and how you play.

Just stop lol.

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wargame me bro

[Lykaboss]

so whats your name then spit it out? and why did you add me on battlenet if im some such a bad player? only people that have ever added me on bnet is cause they want to play with me again. and yeah im sure it was blizz like server just like every other private server claimed...im guessing it was warmane too even more LOLz

[Deleted]

Did Plebianx just say MoP was pruned and bad pvp? Last half of MoP was the most fun in PvP I've ever had. I would do anything for WoW to go back to something like that. Sure the CC chains was crazy but rather that then the PvE > skill that happens in arena these days.

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Plebianx has this on his channel "best warrior in the world". Cringe.

[zezel81]

Ummm. Arena is ok and ppl do use macros/Addons but who cares. I don't use them but a lot of PvP is in the game. I personnally like killing anytime anywhere in world PvP. I don't need anything for it or objectives because you are it. I enjoy killing ppl in the sewers or again anywhere. You can have glad title or whatever. It will not stop me if you are on a PvP server with me. Better go ask for help from Jokertboy and his guild to help you or elitist guild. Even then make sure they bring 3 or more. I world PvP so much I taste the QQ for when blizzard does a nerf to my class over and over. I have been doing this sents WoW came out. I even killed two devs in the sewer and swarm by kiting it(5 to 40 accounts that multi boxing).
If you are on a PVE server and have glad or PvP title I kind of find it funny. Lol... arena is a mini game and I it play sometimes with my brother. It is fun as well but I like the unknown.

[Propainn]

Did Plebianx just say MoP was pruned and bad pvp? Last half of MoP was the most fun in PvP I've ever had. I would do anything for WoW to go back to something like that. Sure the CC chains was crazy but rather that then the PvE > skill that happens in arena these days.

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Plebianx has this on his channel "best warrior in the world". Cringe.

It's just a troll and an advertisement for his youtube channel at this point.

The best part is (on the off chance that this dude is even remotely serious) that he doesn't even get the irony in his own posts. He basically says he doesn't take anyone who is good at the game seriously, but fails to realize absolutely no one takes a no name random piece of cannon fodder seriously. On top of this, he claims he never arenas, and then links a vid full of arenas. Come one people.

Also, his 35k hp vs 34k hp in the duel vs a "better geared warrior." Nuff said. Odds are that it's just a terrible troll that got too many bites due to Poe's Law, best case scenario it's some trash player who thought he was half decent on a private server and is trying to advertise his channel by posting his "l33t pvp vid" to everyone he quotes.

[Lykaboss]

It's just a troll and an advertisement for his youtube channel at this point.

The best part is (on the off chance that this dude is even remotely serious) that he doesn't even get the irony in his own posts. He basically says he doesn't take anyone who is good at the game seriously, but fails to realize absolutely no one takes a no name random piece of cannon fodder seriously. On top of this, he claims he never arenas, and then links a vid full of arenas. Come one people.

Also, his 35k hp vs 34k hp in the duel vs a "better geared warrior." Nuff said. Odds are that it's just a terrible troll that got too many bites due to Poe's Law, best case scenario it's some trash player who thought he was half decent on a private server and is trying to advertise his channel by posting his "l33t pvp vid" to everyone he quotes.

Nail on the head (Y)

[Uoyredrum]

Is by far the most ridiculous and shocking thing that I never thought would evolve beyond what it was back in TBC.

People have always been like that, whether about arena or other things.

Back in TBC, I regarded arenas as a simple minigame meant for fun.

Arenas are a minigame like dungeons are a minigame.

Fastforward today people are treating glads and R1s like gods and like they're untouchable, toxic arguments consist of spam linking achievements of X rating and saying "ha, I'm higher rated than you! I'm better than you OBVIOUSLY". You have people being put down and being told they can't make an opinion because their rating is not at X number, even if you get glad you'll be told "oh well you don't have R1, stfu".

"You haven't even killed X boss on mythic, you're trash" - see my earlier point.

It is BEYOND ridiculous to me and I see so many new players and noobs getting sucked in by this mentality. Poor them! They don't even know what's going on! They just barely started, opened up their game and downloaded their addons that they read up on a guide and just started playing.

That's not something exclusive to arena.

So I'm gonna disassemble this arena mentality and explain to you exactly the truth about arenas.

...I'm sure you're an expert. Wow me.

Arenas is a minigame, there isn't any disputing that. Arenas has absolutely no basis on actual PvP and should never have been regarded as such, the game was balanced around PvE AKA World PvP. That's why duels, BGs and raiding cities in the open world worked and was found to be fun by players all over the world.

Yeah, it's not. If arena is a minigame so are BGs, dungeons, raids, etc. It's a major, core part of the game that many people enjoy and it's supported by blizzard with official tournaments at blizzcon.

But what about the Rogues who oneshotted with ambu- yes, Vanilla was a stupid time for World PvP but that's why we brought more people to gank them, and then they brought more people to gank us and it became an all out 40 vs 40 deathmatch in the middle of the fucking crossroads.

World PvP was the REAL PvP.

I love world pvp too but it's not a test of skill, it's a test of gear, numbers, and who has the better class. There's some skill there especially if you're doing a 1vX but calling something REAL pvp just because you like it more holds no water.

Duels were an indicator of whether one was better than the other, that doesn't count for any expansion post WOTLK but back then? Duels were a show of skill and outplaying. There was nobody else in there to help you if you made mistakes, there was no extra DPs to give you the damage boost and CC you needed to score a victory. It was all you and him, and if you messed up you were punished harshly for it.

The game isn't balanced around duels, so no. In WotLK, one of the most balanced expansions, mages could spec into improved blizzard and sit max range just casting blizzard on melee and kill them without moving because it would spam immobilize them. Trinket it and get immobilized immediately. Rogue cloaks it? Kite till it wears off, frost nova and keep blizzarding. How about Blood DKs being basically invincible against melee? Yeah, duels are not skill no matter how hard you want them to be. They never have been.

Arenas is NOWHERE near an indicator of individual skill, that's why I get very confused when people flame a single person's rating. It's like dude, you don't get that rating ALL by yourself, you get that rating with two other people and that's called teamwork. Absolutely nothing to do with your individual skill. And WoW is not a MOBA so I don't know why you're pissing your pants over this stuff.

It takes far more skill to have good communication and coordinating CC and cooldowns than it does to duel somebody and hope your class counters theirs.

In arenas, you are allowed to use macros like arena123 macros, which I find to be extremely mongoloid, these macros allow a Mage to sit in the center of the map and literally spam frostbolt + polymorph any poor shmuck that gets too close without ever having to switch targets. Like, I'm looking around me thinking "Yo is anyone actually seeing this? This is okay with you guys?" Like you people are fucking nuts if you think that this is the pinnacle of skill in WoW.

And this is where you lose what little credibility you had left. Macros are an officially supported part of the game and are completely OK because they are limited in scope on what they can do. And no, mages can't sit in the center of the map and spam frostbolt and polymorph. Go ahead and try that with a DK and rogue training you or a hunter ripping into you, see how well that goes.

Running around in a claustrophobic box with 4 pillars, take your pick at humping any one pillar of your liking and spamming arena123 macros is NOT WoW PvP, that's a goddamn MOBA.

So sitting in an open area spamming your abilities with no way to escape is wow pvp? /facepalm

And now let's move onto the Gladiators and R1s, get prepared for the brutal truth; you're not nearly as good as you'd like to think you are. You worked with a team to achieve your rating, you did not carry the entire team to 2.9k and get everybody the R1 title, you worked with them and they worked with you. You go in and your healer keeps you alive making sure you don't die and your extra DPs can be there to help you score a kill quickly.

Yeah they got titles for getting high rated in team based pvp...what's your point? Are you implying there should be r1 titles for duels or that arenas shouldn't allow healers? I swear your points get dumber the further down I go.

Gladiators and R1s are absolutely terrified of duels, that's why they've disregarded them as "meaningless" and "not real PvP" and they've spewed this crap in their streams, to their friends and to anybody who asks. This has been going on for so long that this mentality has caught on so well that new players will defend this idea to their very deaths.

I've known a lot of r1's and gladiators that are some of the best duelists on their servers. That's pretty common. It's not always the case, but the majority of the time it is whether you like it or not.

There's a reason why arena players are wary of doing 2s, it's because it's the closest they'll ever get to 1v1ing anyone. "Wahh wahh I can't kill this healer by myself!! 2s is unbalance!! wahh!" so that's why they moved to 3s, because they don't ONLY have a healer there to fix any stupid mistakes they make that would've otherwise killed them in a 1v1 situation, they ALSO have an extra DPs so they can mongo down a kill target quickly. Sounds awfully similar to ganking if you ask me to be honest lol which happened a lot in WPvP, when you couldn't kill someone by yourself? Get a friend to help you! Hell yeah!

People don't do 2s seriously because they removed the titles and rewards years ago. Also, 2s is the most played bracket still so I'm not sure why you say they're "wary of doing 2s" because a ton of people still do it for fun.

This whole arena mentality sickens me to the core, the fact that these arena players are now in power and can dictate what "real PvP" is makes me disgusted. Arenas is NOT real PvP and NEVER will be, it is a minigame and always will be.

I'm sorry you're disgusted about being wrong about everything.

Majority of players do arenas because they know they can't 1v1 anybody for shit and thus they do arenas to give themselves an ego boost so they can sit in Orgrimmar or Dalaran with their glad/R1 title and mount and just AFK, just watching everyone target you as your ego meter fills up. Of course there's always those who legitimately enjoys doing arenas but why play WoW when you can play a superior form of this minigame like League of Legends? Oh well.

You should make a video of you dueling a bunch of gladiators and rank 1 players and lets see how you do. I guarantee you lose at least 95% of those duels judging by the way you talk, probably pretty badly.

Just know that any one of these players inspecting you can fully and irrevocably kick your ass in a 1v1 situation where your healer isn't behind you making sure your stupid ass isn't dead because you're bad at the game.

Napoleon complex?

So now that arenas was taken a bit more seriously than just a mere minigame, all these changes over the past couple of expansions reflected a lot on that until we've reached today's state, where we are literally one step away from playing an actual MOBA game.

Aside from being poorly balanced, nothing's really changed.

So I propose some solutions that could fix this nasty situation:

Add PvP rewards for World PvP akin to arena rewards, same item level of gear, different titles, mounts etc, you know the whole gig, like the honor system back in Vanilla where you could buy Champions and High Warlord gear pieces for marks of WSG/AB/AV etc. That way players can CHOOSE to do arenas or World PvP, they're not forced to do something they absolutely hate just to be able to get some kind of reward in PvP.

Return resilience so people stop getting instagibbed in this retarded expansion and unprune abilities, add more BGs, add more World PvP objectives to take over certain towers or points like in Halaa, Silithus or Hellfire Pennisula. Offer significant rewards for those objectives, not endgame level but enough to attract players to socialize and work with their faction to achieve it.

Delete CRZ. Like just straight up delete that shit, that shit is the leading cause for why the WoW community has gone to shit, realms have lost their identities and communities, trolls and toxic players can swoop in and out with little to no repercussions for what they do or say. If you're about to die in WPvP, what do you know, just join a group from another realm and phase out. Players no longer talk to each other, they don't coordinate, they just queue and stay silent the whole time, like it's a single player game.

Removing CRZ would help to create a sense of community and revitalize World PvP a lot, even in this state I wouldn't say it's too late to fix this.



Arenas will never be a part of World of Warcraft, just get over it and start playing the game for what it really is, an open world game.

You clearly don't understand the game well enough to be making suggestions. Leave the game to the devs and if you don't like it, go play something else.

[shoegazing]

MOP was the worst expansion I've ever seen exist for any video game in the world so it's completely irrelevant.

PvP participation was much higher in WOTLK because there were 12 million players playing it. I believe I even linked a graph showing how subscribers dropped rapidly after WOTLK into Cataclysm and in MOP it declined even further until WOD where it went to the lowest point where it was similar to 2005 WoW's sub count.

Please don't ever try to use MOP as a base for any sort of logical debate again because MOP is the most garbage expansion I've ever witnessed, the entire thing was a convoluted pruned mongoloid shitfest where talents got pruned, abilities became braindead and basically made an expansion like Legion possible just by existing in the first place.

I feel insulted just by the fact you mentioned it in my thread.

Can you quote me the portion of my post where I suggested that MoP was a good expansion? No you can't because I didn't. Check your reading comprehension friendo.

[Henako]

.





Yes... yes, I see that.

Right.. but.. it's your reasoning for the drop. That's the part from Bizzaro Land.

[Deleted]

I agree with some people being douche bags to lower skilled/new players but it that's just the maturity of some people.

But there's no way of even trying to take you seriously when you overexaggurate about arena being "NO INDIVIDUAL SKILL AT ALL!" which is so wrong. How about you become a little more realistic while critisizing the post TBC expansions in PVP and make a new thread or something..

[Kagthul]

3v3 arenas are definitely the most accurate measurement of skill in WoW. BGs even rated, are a clusterfuck. 2v2 is a joke. Dueling is a disaster, especially now when classes have so much burst and cc. Cataclysm was the last time 1v1 had some sort of balance, and even then hunters, rogues, mages, and blood dks, were gods.

At this point, if you are not competing in tournaments for money, you should not take PvP seriously at all. The last expansion with decent PvP was MoP, since then PvP officially became a minigame.

I fully agree with the removal of CRZ, it killed server identity. Just merge dead servers and stop being so petty, Blizzard already makes billions as it is. Agree as well with the return of resilience, burst is out of control in bgs, 2v2 and 1v1 scenarios, hence why decent PvPers only do 3s.

You seems to think we're still in vanilla when duels actually meant shit, but i got news for you, they don't. Nobody cares if a frost mage ice lanced a warrior to death while running 40 yards ahead of him, or if a rogue, monk, or DH melted your hp bar in a gcd. 3v3 arenas took over the pvp scene, deal with it.

The irony is that you can't seem to parse together that Arena taking over the PvP scene is also what caused it to die.

[shoegazing]

I agree with some people being douche bags to lower skilled/new players but it that's just the maturity of some people.

But there's no way of even trying to take you seriously when you overexaggurate about arena being "NO INDIVIDUAL SKILL AT ALL!" which is so wrong. How about you become a little more realistic while critisizing the post TBC expansions in PVP and make a new thread or something..

He actually has a point there, there amount of individual skill required for arena is WAY DOWN compared to previous executions. It's all about having the right comp, the right strategy, etc. But there are very few opportunities for a skilled individual player to make an exciting or exceptional play anymore.

Compare to BC, Wrath arena where one good player could carry a team. The classes are so dumbed down now (simplified mechanics, ability pruning, reduced CC and utility) for casual and PvE audiences so that isn't really possible anymore.

The only way to really stand out as an individual player anymore or be better than someone else who plays the same spec as you at a proficient level is to be better at doing the dps rotation.