Honest Opinions on Which Spec for ToS

[D3athsting]

I'm using the excellent guide at https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=5&t=3635 for the GS Frost build which should be a very competitive frost mage setup from tomorrow onwards.

I plan to sim myself very shortly. I am transitioning from another spec so my entire character is likely out of whack, I am just thankful I have two viable legendaries for this build (shard and KJBW).

I tried Gs with prydaz and bracers, is not that much behind tv (911 ivl) and i noticed it suffers less than TV when you're targeted by mechanics during iv, if you get an orb from krosus during IV in Tv build you're pretty much fu**ed and going to lose probably more than 100k, with Gs you lose less dps because has higher sustained outside of IV, also it looks like with changes to flurry's travel time it will be possible to shatter glacial spike like we do now with frostbolt ebonbolt and ice lance

[Deleted]

I tried Gs with prydaz and bracers, is not that much behind tv (911 ivl) and i noticed it suffers less than TV when you're targeted by mechanics during iv, if you get an orb from krosus during IV in Tv build you're pretty much fu**ed and going to lose probably more than 100k, with Gs you lose less dps because has higher sustained outside of IV, also it looks like with changes to flurry's travel time it will be possible to shatter glacial spike like we do now with frostbolt ebonbolt and ice lance

yeah, its really the shattered GS' that is the saving grace of the GS build and being able to maintain a 100% critrate on GS is HUGE, sadly the bis leggos for that spec are the ones i dont have yet but i the frost bracers, sephuz, ice time and prydaz and from the sims it seems my optimal setup would be bracers and ice time but my problem is that i have got really bad rings, so im prolly forced to keep using my sephuz so i dont loose too much crit etc., ice time being good/better do make sense with 4pc t20 due to the fact that we'll have more frozen orb cast and there for ice time gives more dmg, so ill prolly stick with bracers and sephuz and then switch to ice time and bracers once i get better rings and 4pc t20

[Uglyduck]

I tried Gs with prydaz and bracers, is not that much behind tv (911 ivl) and i noticed it suffers less than TV when you're targeted by mechanics during iv, if you get an orb from krosus during IV in Tv build you're pretty much fu**ed and going to lose probably more than 100k, with Gs you lose less dps because has higher sustained outside of IV, also it looks like with changes to flurry's travel time it will be possible to shatter glacial spike like we do now with frostbolt ebonbolt and ice lance

So bracers are still looking to be one of the BIS leggo's for GS build? I figured it wouldn't be anymore...

[Zenfoldor]

CmS helm + Shard is bis for both builds.

Took me a while to figure out that means CometStorm Helm. Shattered Fragments of Sindragosa - Every 15 Frostbolts or Flurries you cast casts Comet Storm at your target. I may swap loot specs today if I go frost for single target. I wonder if you have to wait for the 20th, or if you can start getting that with 7.2.5?

ETA: I got 900 whispers and also 6/6 t19. I am shocked to see that the sims are so close together between legendaries. On fire is is not like that. The TW ring is, bracers, and belt in some combo for single target, and the DB Helm for aoe, and after that other legos are trash. It sucks that the highest lego requirement spec(with possible exception of arcane) has the worst dps. I just don't get it. I am getting okay with switching the more I think about it. It just sucks that I have spent the whole xpak to get really good with fire, and now I am gonna have to start over.

[davesignal]

Or, you know, this link

https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=2&t=4457

Glad to see arcane's not that far behind frost. I find all the other mage specs intensely dull to play, but arcane's a lot of fun.

[Obelisk Kai]

Took me a while to figure out that means CometStorm Helm. Shattered Fragments of Sindragosa - Every 15 Frostbolts or Flurries you cast casts Comet Storm at your target. I may swap loot specs today if I go frost for single target. I wonder if you have to wait for the 20th, or if you can start getting that with 7.2.5?

ETA: I got 900 whispers and also 6/6 t19. I am shocked to see that the sims are so close together between legendaries. On fire is is not like that. The TW ring is, bracers, and belt in some combo for single target, and the DB Helm for aoe, and after that other legos are trash. It sucks that the highest lego requirement spec(with possible exception of arcane) has the worst dps. I just don't get it. I am getting okay with switching the more I think about it. It just sucks that I have spent the whole xpak to get really good with fire, and now I am gonna have to start over.

I'm in the same boat. Desperately hung on hoping for Fire to get good and I only gave up the ghost a few weeks ago. On the bright side I have every single Fire legendary, sans the new shoulders, squirreled away for the future when Fire rises like a Phoenix from the ashes for the Argus raid.

[Zenfoldor]

I'm in the same boat. Desperately hung on hoping for Fire to get good and I only gave up the ghost a few weeks ago. On the bright side I have every single Fire legendary, sans the new shoulders, squirreled away for the future when Fire rises like a Phoenix from the ashes for the Argus raid.

Yeah, lol, I'd be god mode right now against fire newbs. Honestly, it's about making sure you know WHEN to cast and stack spells, and not necessarily what to cast.

I guess, if I'm honest, I have just learned how fire works well against bosses in NH. There isn't a better time to switch specs than between raids, because I would have to relearn cooldown timers vs varying bosses anyway.

Fire is all muscle memory by now. I honestly don't even know the spells for frost. That said, I think I may end up surprising myself, because often being able to respec during an xpak is something fun that people fight for, instead of something that people are being forced into. Maybe it will be fun.

[mrgreenthump]

Glad to see arcane's not that far behind frost. I find all the other mage specs intensely dull to play, but arcane's a lot of fun.

That far? It's over 15% behind on single target with best legendaries, barely better than Fire.

[Deleted]

That far? It's over 15% behind on single target with best legendaries, barely better than Fire.

APL for Arcane are not ready Difference won't be that high.

[mrgreenthump]

APL for Arcane are not ready Difference won't be that high.

Yeah, probably true, but he was quoting a source that had it 15% behind.

[davesignal]

Yeah, probably true, but he was quoting a source that had it 15% behind.

Even then, 15% behind Frost is still comfortably ahead of a lot of other classes, isn't it

Arcane's not going to be doing elemental shaman or balance druid DPS, down in the dregs.

[nickseng]

Yeah nice sims. Sadly they show only numbers without describing what gear have been used

Or, you know, the link to the full html below that shows what gear/talent/artifact relic was used at the end of the first post.

[Deleted]

Even then, 15% behind Frost is still comfortably ahead of a lot of other classes, isn't it

Arcane's not going to be doing elemental shaman or balance druid DPS, down in the dregs.

idd, the dps difference between arcane and frost on live will be essentially be the same in 7.2.5, frost will still be the best at the same things that they are the best at now.

[Deleted]

idd, the dps difference between arcane and frost on live will be essentially be the same in 7.2.5, frost will still be the best at the same things that they are the best at now.

I think its easy to understand that Blizz is happy how mage and his speccs are working right now! They just patch the double IL bug out of the game. So I think they are happy with how we work right now.
if they were not happy, they would add some tuning fixes into 7.2.5. But they didnt !

[MV Kaa]

I think its easy to understand that Blizz is happy how mage and his speccs are working right now! They just patch the double IL bug out of the game. So I think they are happy with how we work right now.
if they were not happy, they would add some tuning fixes into 7.2.5. But they didnt !

It wasnt a bug...

[Obelisk Kai]

It wasnt a bug...

But nor was it intended behaviour, else they wouldn't have put so much effort into trying to squish it.

I also see they intend to buff underperforming specs shortly. This has to include Fire, as Fire currently is a joke.

I am not a theorycrafter, but would anyone know what level of a buff Fire would have to receive to make it a viable choice against Frost in ToS? (Note I said viable, not superior. I don't think Fire will beat Frost due to the mechanics of the ToS fights)

[D3athsting]

But nor was it intended behaviour, else they wouldn't have put so much effort into trying to squish it.

I also see they intend to buff underperforming specs shortly. This has to include Fire, as Fire currently is a joke.

I am not a theorycrafter, but would anyone know what level of a buff Fire would have to receive to make it a viable choice against Frost in ToS? (Note I said viable, not superior. I don't think Fire will beat Frost due to the mechanics of the ToS fights)

It took them 4 months to buff fire by a poor 6%, i wouldn't hold my breath

[Jalatiphra]

i will play fire because i dont give shit about balancing and since iam not raiding mythic only heroic. i dont see a problem in this at all ~~
but hey thats just me as a filthy casual - i understand you mythic raiders, because i was one myself.
but still . i dont give a flying f.

[mrgreenthump]

But nor was it intended behaviour, else they wouldn't have put so much effort into trying to squish it.

I also see they intend to buff underperforming specs shortly. This has to include Fire, as Fire currently is a joke.

I am not a theorycrafter, but would anyone know what level of a buff Fire would have to receive to make it a viable choice against Frost in ToS? (Note I said viable, not superior. I don't think Fire will beat Frost due to the mechanics of the ToS fights)

Against Frost, 10-15%.. But Frost among a few others are a bit too far ahead, so I'd expect a nerf to Frost, rather than a buff for Fire, which seems to be firmly at the middle of the pack.

Granted we still need really big nerfs to our legendaries and buffs to base spells to compensate.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I also see they intend to buff underperforming specs shortly. This has to include Fire, as Fire currently is a joke.

I am not a theorycrafter, but would anyone know what level of a buff Fire would have to receive to make it a viable choice against Frost in ToS? (Note I said viable, not superior. I don't think Fire will beat Frost due to the mechanics of the ToS fights)

A joke as compared to what? Fire itself out-DPSes many specs, even entire classes, going into ToS. As long as it out-DPSes an entire class's options it's viable, because a Ret can't just suddenly go Shockadin or some such shit, and you're more likely than not going to bench all Rets on your team. Or whatever other class, take your pick. Monk, priest, shaman on Live; supposedly adding DK, rogue, and paladins to that list with preliminary PTR sims.

Viable against Frost? 16% assuming the APL is perfect, which it isn't. It has to beat it. That's how this mentality goes. Spec's garbage if it's not on top. Now before anyone fucking lynches me here, 15% is a fairly large gap. Not as large as some of the gaps I've played against, but still moderately large. But "viable" is such a nebulous concept that it means basically nothing. It's not the bottom spec and out-DPSes entire classes; where is the limit for viability? For a great many people the answer to that question is +16%. For others it's already viable. Keep in mind that the world first NH race included Fire, and the gap was about as large in NH.

It sims 15% behind. Very few will hit that Frost performance level. Fire's APL has been worked on by about 3 people that I've seen as compared to the 15+ of Frost so there's likely optimizations to be had. If I had to bet, I'd say we'll see a ~5% buff to Fire overall. Arcane likely a bit less than that. Is that enough to be "viable"? Up to you.

I can tell already I'm going to regret this post tomorrow...