Intels Skylake-X and Coffee Lake CPUs Discussion

[moremana]

That B350 Tomahawk is gonna explode for sure (unless it's a god of chip and that's done with 1.2V).

Been running Autodesk, PP, PS and Blender just fine since release in March @ 3.9, hasnt exploded yet.

But you can have the last word.

[Riens]

Guys i wanna order new rig for games and streams. What you think, should i wait Skylake X and buy i7-7740x ? Or just buy i7-7700k ><

[mrgreenthump]

Guys i wanna order new rig for games and streams. What you think, should i wait Skylake X and buy i7-7740x ? Or just buy i7-7700k ><

7740x is a waste of money, because the platform cost will be so high and all you get is 100 or so more MHz of OC room, but not only that, it has no iGPU, which means you can't use quicksync, which is basically a must for streaming on Intel 155x platforms.

[Amalaric]

Don't hype yourself up too much over Coffee Lake, it's still the exact same uArch as Skylake/Kaby Lake just with 2 extra cores and on the same lithography.
Don't expect an IPC increase because the only thing it does is "refine" the Kaby Lake die.

That said the 6C12T may be more beneficial for gaming than anything in the Skylake-X range.

Veronica Lake will be THE shit though... trust me on this.

[Zenny]

Guys i wanna order new rig for games and streams. What you think, should i wait Skylake X and buy i7-7740x ? Or just buy i7-7700k ><

Games and streaming? Ryzen would be your best bang for buck right now, go for a 1700X and OC that sucker to 4Ghz (if you want), great performance in games and unbeatable streaming performance for it's price segment.

[Life-Binder]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1632008/y...#post_26158516

some info directly from der8auer (read onto the next page)

[Evildeffy]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1632008/y...#post_26158516

some info directly from der8auer (read onto the next page)

Some information I've been trying to say to people expecting super high stable overclocks for a long period of time:

I think a lot of mainboards will have problems with SK-X. Power consumption is insane at this OC level and especially when running AVX. If the board only has 1 x EPS 12V connector your can already remove it from your list. We had one EPS plugged only for the first test and the cable was almost melting.

Granted it's 1 x 8-Pin but it's exactly what I've been stating which people don't believe.

Overclocking directly and almost exponentially increases power draw on higher core count CPUs and seeing how having it clocked at that amount with a single 8-pin almost melt the cable in just the first test you can imagine what the VRMs/MOSFETs get to endure.

If overclocking is intended you best buy a board with 2 x 8-pin EPS and a beefy VRM/MOSFET power circuitry.

But this is done with 10C CPUs.. the 18C CPUs will be fun to watch in the same manner.

[Thunderball]

Granted it's 1 x 8-Pin but it's exactly what I've been stating which people don't believe.

Overclocking directly and almost exponentially increases power draw on higher core count CPUs and seeing how having it clocked at that amount with a single 8-pin almost melt the cable in just the first test you can imagine what the VRMs/MOSFETs get to endure.

If overclocking is intended you best buy a board with 2 x 8-pin EPS and a beefy VRM/MOSFET power circuitry.

But this is done with 10C CPUs.. the 18C CPUs will be fun to watch in the same manner.

Nothing new, R7 has similar problems on B350 boards. Granted, I've never seen trash VRM on any X99 boards and I kind of expect X299 to be the same. I dont think 10C chips will have any problems as those boards would have to be able to run 18C, but higher that that I'm not sure. Also, all power circuitry seems to become increasingly more efficient, so board manufacturers definitely have options here, let's see how they implement.

[DeltrusDisc]

Coming soon! Liquid cooling for your CABLES!

[Afrospinach]

Coming soon! Liquid cooling for your CABLES!

Just ditch this nonsense and go straight for the aquarium full of oil.

[Evildeffy]

Nothing new, R7 has similar problems on B350 boards. Granted, I've never seen trash VRM on any X99 boards and I kind of expect X299 to be the same. I dont think 10C chips will have any problems as those boards would have to be able to run 18C, but higher that that I'm not sure. Also, all power circuitry seems to become increasingly more efficient, so board manufacturers definitely have options here, let's see how they implement.

Actually not quite, whilst it's deffo not recommended OCing on B350 with a Ryzen 7 CPU to 4GHz, 3,8GHz should be within tolerances.
Ryzen 7 is stupidly efficient comparatively and has less of a power draw right now likely because of clock limitations.

Buildzoid did mention most B350 boards should be able to sustain 3,8GHz for 24/7 use but he did mention it's pushing it.
Especially so on MSI's terrible VRM choices, he was not happy with that.

However you're missing my point.. by overclocking any 8C and higher the power draw doesn't just rise, it explodes.
Of course you apply motherboard with class of hardware like OCing a Ryzen 7 to 4GHz and keeping it there you should account for an X370 which deffo has a beefier VRM/MOSFET power circuitry.

Now overclocking the 10C almost caused 1 x 8-Pin to melt, having 2 x 8-Pin will certainly reduce the load to lower temps but still higher than anything in the Z270/X370 range.
Imagine now what the 18C will cause if you try to OC that, the same can be said for ThreadRipper as well, we'll see what their 16C clocks to but it should be the same effect but slightly less if the silicon is the same as Ryzen 7's 4,0 - 4,1GHz limit to what the Intel CPU is doing.

[Holofernes]

Nothing new, R7 has similar problems on B350 boards. Granted, I've never seen trash VRM on any X99 boards and I kind of expect X299 to be the same. I dont think 10C chips will have any problems as those boards would have to be able to run 18C, but higher that that I'm not sure. Also, all power circuitry seems to become increasingly more efficient, so board manufacturers definitely have options here, let's see how they implement.

this totally depends on the boards layout. they are all different layout. msi for example has b350 "gaming" boards, wiht only 2 memory slots and they are ment to support ryzen 5.

The tomahawk b350 line from msi, is ment for ryzen 7s 8 cores. U can check this by counting the voltage igfets, the gaming variants all have less of hem
(and in in weired location with different travel times to the core, so those boards cant really adjust voltages /currents as fast as the 8 cores require it to run optimal)

b350 tomahawk at 8 core 1700 cpu overclocks stable at 3.7ghz 24 /7 at 1.2 volt vcore. 3.9 ghz runs stable during stress tests at 1.34 volts,(all at stock cooler) but im totally satisfied with 3.7 ghz. This u cant expect with the "gaming" titulared producht of same manufacturer and same chipset. U really have to check the mobos layout to realize what its ment for, or watch a good youtube video on motherbords. If it has something like "gaming" in its name, expect it to be a watered down solution ment for dumb kids.

Basically the layout is the key component of getting a decent plattform. U need to answer the question what do i need the pc for, what overclocks will i strive for, how much power will it consume, do i want aircooling only, what temps do i aim for.

If u have no clue about what is important on the mobo for your cpu, what it needs and why, ask good techy (those are the ones that last at least 30 minutes, and are a lot of talk, and dont have a funny greeting and a flippy guy that does some "cool kids " stuff) youtube vids

[DeltrusDisc]

Just ditch this nonsense and go straight for the aquarium full of oil.

...

Fuck it, why not?!

[Thunderball]

However you're missing my point.. by overclocking any 8C and higher the power draw doesn't just rise, it explodes.
Of course you apply motherboard with class of hardware like OCing a Ryzen 7 to 4GHz and keeping it there you should account for an X370 which deffo has a beefier VRM/MOSFET power circuitry.

Now overclocking the 10C almost caused 1 x 8-Pin to melt, having 2 x 8-Pin will certainly reduce the load to lower temps but still higher than anything in the Z270/X370 range.
Imagine now what the 18C will cause if you try to OC that, the same can be said for ThreadRipper as well, we'll see what their 16C clocks to but it should be the same effect but slightly less if the silicon is the same as Ryzen 7's 4,0 - 4,1GHz limit to what the Intel CPU is doing.

A typical EPS12V connector has is specced for 28A, that's 336W. I'm not sure if it's possible to cool anything that draws that much power. Granted, you can have about 40-50W dissipated over VRM (but that's maximum of what can be coolable on modern VRMs), but that 290-300W still looks pretty close to uncoolable. I dont think having 2 EPS12V connectors is a problem, I've seen them on some X370 boards (where they are a ridiculous overkill), so if they are needed they are gonna be there. I'm mostly curious about a VRM design that will handle that much power draw by the processor (liquid cooled maybe?), power connectors are definitely not a problem here.

Also curious about what AMD comes up with to cool their Threadripper, as it's gonna require liquid cooling for sure, and no current designs will work on it.

- - - Updated - - -

this totally depends on the boards layout. they are all different layout. msi for example has b350 "gaming" boards, wiht only 2 memory slots and they are ment to support ryzen 5.

The tomahawk b350 line from msi, is ment for ryzen 7s 8 cores. U can check this by counting the voltage igfets, the gaming variants all have less of hem
(and in in weired location with different travel times to the core, so those boards cant really adjust voltages /currents as fast as the 8 cores require it to run optimal)

b350 tomahawk at 8 core 1700 cpu overclocks stable at 3.7ghz 24 /7 at 1.2 volt vcore. 3.9 ghz runs stable during stress tests at 1.34 volts,(all at stock cooler) but im totally satisfied with 3.7 ghz. This u cant expect with the "gaming" titulared producht of same manufacturer and same chipset. U really have to check the mobos layout to realize what its ment for, or watch a good youtube video on motherbords. If it has something like "gaming" in its name, expect it to be a watered down solution ment for dumb kids.

Basically the layout is the key component of getting a decent plattform. U need to answer the question what do i need the pc for, what overclocks will i strive for, how much power will it consume, do i want aircooling only, what temps do i aim for.

If u have no clue about what is important on the mobo for your cpu, what it needs and why, ask good techy (those are the ones that last at least 30 minutes, and are a lot of talk, and dont have a funny greeting and a flippy guy that does some "cool kids " stuff) youtube vids

Gaming Carbon and Krait actually have the best VRM of all B350 boards out there, Tomahawk is also trash compared to it. I dont care what those are meant for, but it's pretty naive to overclock R7 on any B350 board other than Gaming Carbon, Gaming Krait and maybe Asrock Pro4.

You dont seem to understand what's important for overclocking and read too much into marketing crap. Better ask that techy you're talking about.

[Remilia]

A typical EPS12V connector has is specced for 28A, that's 336W. I'm not sure if it's possible to cool anything that draws that much power. Granted, you can have about 40-50W dissipated over VRM (but that's maximum of what can be coolable on modern VRMs), but that 290-300W still looks pretty close to uncoolable. I dont think having 2 EPS12V connectors is a problem, I've seen them on some X370 boards (where they are a ridiculous overkill), so if they are needed they are gonna be there. I'm mostly curious about a VRM design that will handle that much power draw by the processor (liquid cooled maybe?), power connectors are definitely not a problem here.

Also curious about what AMD comes up with to cool their Threadripper, as it's gonna require liquid cooling for sure, and no current designs will work on it.

Think der8auer was talking about the PSU connector where the plastic or insulation starts melting due to the heat caused by the high amount of power. It has happened before but typically not on a CPU socket, but the GPU when overclocked. Two EPS would in theory split the load making it so there's less strain on one wire and thus not melt.

[Evildeffy]

A typical EPS12V connector has is specced for 28A, that's 336W. I'm not sure if it's possible to cool anything that draws that much power. Granted, you can have about 40-50W dissipated over VRM (but that's maximum of what can be coolable on modern VRMs), but that 290-300W still looks pretty close to uncoolable. I dont think having 2 EPS12V connectors is a problem, I've seen them on some X370 boards (where they are a ridiculous overkill), so if they are needed they are gonna be there. I'm mostly curious about a VRM design that will handle that much power draw by the processor (liquid cooled maybe?), power connectors are definitely not a problem here.

Also curious about what AMD comes up with to cool their Threadripper, as it's gonna require liquid cooling for sure, and no current designs will work on it.

As you can see der8auer is cooling it.
Again though the connector may be rated for 336W but the cables in it may not be.

Regardless if it's at the point of melting it's passed the 300W range for the wires.

I also never stated having 2 x 8-Pin is an issue, I said it's REQUIRED to operate properly.

Also why do you keep assuming the AMD ThreadRipper is hotter?
Current designs will work, just require a bracket alteration as most of the coldplates on high-end AIOs are larger than even X299 without issue.

ThreadRipper, if anything, should be more efficient and cooler than Skylake-X.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

In a way SK-X reminds me of Prescott.

[mrgreenthump]

336W. I'm not sure if it's possible to cool anything that draws that much power. Granted, you can have about 40-50W dissipated over VRM (but that's maximum of what can be coolable on modern VRMs), but that 290-300W still looks pretty close to uncoolable.

By that logic, an overclocked 290x should have never been coolable, but yet it was. On cpu though, you may need a good AIO(possibly 360mm), because most air coolers top out at 200-225W.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

By that logic, an overclocked 290x should have never been coolable, but yet it was. On cpu though, you may need a good AIO(possibly 360mm), because most air coolers top out at 200-225W.

Kind of apples to oranges. GPUs are much more tolerant to heat than CPUs for several reasons. Hawaii can literately function in to the 90s before hitting a thermal throttle and even with a solid fan curve you'll still likely see 85*c with a custom card which is usually where my Gigabyte Windforce will level out (arguably the worst 290x brand) and I have pretty decent airflow to boot. Loud as a jet engine at that point too.

[mrgreenthump]

Kind of apples to oranges. GPUs are much more tolerant to heat than CPUs. Hawaii can literately function in to the 90s before hitting a thermal throttle and even with a solid fan curve you'll still likely see 85*c with a custom card which is usually where my Gigabyte Windforce will level out (arguably the worst 290x brand) and I have pretty decent airflow to boot. Loud as a jet engine at that point too.

You are still dissipating the same amount of heat. Also current Intel CPUs do go quite high till they start to throttle(90c+). And the IHS of x299 is quite large, so I don't really see the problem in heat transfer either(outside of them using TIM once again).