Tinkers In Our Future?

[Thimagryn]

And Marshal McBride, at the Northshire Abbey in, just stands at his post, doing his duty, when an adult human suddenly materializes in front of him.

Yes. We don't need lore to show us the birth of your character being raised from childbirth to full adulthood. The lack of lore makes the origin of our characters a complete mystery that never needs to be officially answered. What we simply know is that our characters start as the class that we (as a player) assigned them to.

Do you think a living, breathing character created out of a purely magical existence is too wild to imagine? Because that's exactly who Anveena was. Choosing to roleplay their character as such is completely feasible.

[prwraith]

I don't understand this obsession with tinker that everyone seems to have.

[Toogoodman]

I don't understand this obsession with tinker that everyone seems to have.

By everyone, you mean 5-6 fan boys. I think most people understand that it just wouldn't work in the game... Imagine, trying to balance turrets and bombs and all that stuff in a PvP setting. These guys are just hung up on something that most of the player base would never play, and most people who dont really follow lore would probably be extremely confused by them being a playable class. We have the skygolem, close enough, its literally a tinker suit that doesn't attack, because that would make it a combat vehicle.

If you want tinkers added, the only way i could visualize them would be a class that uses engineering like objects as a normal, non mounted character, the will NEVER add a combat mech suit. The only combat mech suits in the game are bosses and a faction leader.

This sounds like all the people who want naga as a playable race, they dont think past their headcanon, and dont listen to anyone when they try to explain why it isnt in the game.

[Ielenia]

Yes. We don't need lore to show us the birth of your character being raised from childbirth to full adulthood. The lack of lore makes the origin of our characters a complete mystery that never needs to be officially answered. What we simply know is that our characters start as the class that we (as a player) assigned them to.

Yes, but certain things can safely be assumed, like having an education, for spellcasters and paladins as well, initial training in their chosen path, etc. To assume that they, for some reason, innately knew how to do what they do, like a woman giving birth to a baby that already knew how to summon imps before being able to walk on two legs, is, at least, and putting it mildly, illogical.

[Thimagryn]

Yes, but certain things can safely be assumed, like having an education, for spellcasters and paladins as well, initial training in their chosen path, etc. To assume that they, for some reason, innately knew how to do what they do, like a woman giving birth to a baby that already knew how to summon imps before being able to walk on two legs, is, at least, and putting it mildly, illogical.

I don't think it's safe to assume at all. We are literally in control of our own lore. If you want to RP your character as an illiterate peasant who was magically granted magical aptitude by a dying mage, you could. We have that kind of lore through the Guardians like Alodi. Woman giving birth to a baby with magical aptitude? You mean like Medivh and Med'an?

Just refer to Dave Kosak's (highly unpopular) explanation of why our characters are so powerful and you can see there's no limits to what our character backgrounds could be. We could very well be the 'Avatars of Azeroth', magically created for the purpose to defend the sleeping Titan. That is within the realm of possibility, and even hinted by Kosak himself.

And being born with the ability to speak is common among special-case characters, which our own origins could be derived from. Anveena was able to talk despite being a magical creation. Even Wrathion learned to speak within the egg. Titans know our language despite having never officially learned it. There are many illogical things about language that don't need to be realistic or assumed that education played a part at all. This is a fantasy world, after all. It doesn't even make sense that our mortal characters should be able to stand up against demi-gods and old-god infused dragon aspects without being utterly crushed. But that's never been a problem, in or out of lore.

[Deleted]

How do you visualize that gameplay? Placing mechanical robots and they are kill-able? How many of them you can place? 1 or 5? What?

Thats a very specific gameplay concern. It can change depending on what Blizz would want them to be.

In theory it should'nt be too different from totems.

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I don't understand this obsession with tinker that everyone seems to have.

I don't understand the obsession with Demon hunters. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Different things appeal to different people.

See, not everyone has to like every class. Does it add something different to the game? I think it does more than DH's did. So, i don't see why it should'nt be added. Goblins and Gnomes are a part of Warcraft. It makes full sense to flesh that out more. I mean... if pandas were... why not?

[Teriz]

By everyone, you mean 5-6 fan boys. I think most people understand that it just wouldn't work in the game... Imagine, trying to balance turrets and bombs and all that stuff in a PvP setting.

You mean like how they balance spells and pets in a PvP setting?

These guys are just hung up on something that most of the player base would never play, and most people who dont really follow lore would probably be extremely confused by them being a playable class. We have the skygolem, close enough, its literally a tinker suit that doesn't attack, because that would make it a combat vehicle.

Yes, because a mount is a suitable replacement for a class.

Paladins can use a mount in combat, and in PvP that mount can be used to cause damage.

If you want tinkers added, the only way i could visualize them would be a class that uses engineering like objects as a normal, non mounted character, the will NEVER add a combat mech suit. The only combat mech suits in the game are bosses and a faction leader.

Gazlowe, Noggenfogger, and Gallywix also use combat mech suits. It says a lot when both racial leaders of Goblins and Gnomes can pilot mechs into combat.

[Toogoodman]

Thats a very specific gameplay concern. It can change depending on what Blizz would want them to be.

In theory it should'nt be too different from totems.

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I don't understand the obsession with Demon hunters. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Different things appeal to different people.

See, not everyone has to like every class. Does it add something different to the game? I think it does more than DH's did. So, i don't see why it should'nt be added. Goblins and Gnomes are a part of Warcraft. It makes full sense to flesh that out more. I mean... if pandas were... why not?

Most people i know who play DH, play it because it rapes dmg meters

[Deleted]

Most people i know who play DH, play it because it rapes dmg meters

I don't think you need to play DH to do that. ^^

[-Joker-]

Try again when you find an example of someone who can build a computer from scratch, while knowing nothing about electronics.

Also, a "prodigy" is someone who has a much easier time understanding (and/or executing) a certain subject. Not one who was born knowing things already.

Talk about grasping at straws. But since you asked:

Taylor Ramon Wilson built a nuclear fusion reactor at age 9 with no help from the outside world.

Magnus Carlsen became a chess master at age 8 in Norway.

Balamurali Ambati was a doctor by age 17

Each of these people were born with knowledge and a passion for their field. But if you are still unconvinced...

Here is Aimi Kobayashi, a 3 year old pianist...



I think it is safe to say she was born with this talent, since most 3 year olds barely speak and know the alphabet song. But please, tell us more about how people are not born with the skill, that they have to learn it.

[Ielenia]

I don't think it's safe to assume at all. We are literally in control of our own lore. If you want to RP your character as an illiterate peasant who was magically granted magical aptitude by a dying mage, you could.

I'm not talking about headcanon.

[Thimagryn]

I'm not talking about headcanon.

That's the only canon there is for our characters origins.

You even confirm this

Yes, but certain things can safely be assumed, like having an education

Is that lore? No. That's headcanon. So yes, you are talking about headcanon. Nowhere in the lore is our knowledge of language ever officially explained, only supplemented by common belief. Yes, it makes sense that our characters learned how to talk, but it is not a definitive set by lore. Lore only tells us what our characters speak. The how is completely up to us. I'd like to think there's a babelfish in my character's ear.

[Rhamses]

By everyone, you mean 5-6 fan boys. I think most people understand that it just wouldn't work in the game... Imagine, trying to balance turrets and bombs and all that stuff in a PvP setting. These guys are just hung up on something that most of the player base would never play, and most people who dont really follow lore would probably be extremely confused by them being a playable class. We have the skygolem, close enough, its literally a tinker suit that doesn't attack, because that would make it a combat vehicle.

I guess you didn't see the poll; Most people think it would work if implemented properly.

This sounds like all the people who want naga as a playable race, they dont think past their headcanon, and dont listen to anyone when they try to explain why it isnt in the game.

By all means, explain why Goblins and Gnomes can fight in mechs but we can't (despite our ability to play as Gnomes and Goblins).

[Ielenia]

Taylor Ramon Wilson built a nuclear fusion reactor at age 9 with no help from the outside world.

Age 14. And yes, he did "have help" from the outside world, considering he didn't build the fusor he used.

Magnus Carlsen became a chess master at age 8 in Norway.

skill =/= knowledge. And learning chess takes a whole of five minutes. Tops.

Balamurali Ambati was a doctor by age 17

Are you going to say he was never taught, nor did he read any book about medicine?

Each of these people were born with knowledge

Citation please?

[Teriz]

I thought the whole point of tinker class is to rely on his/hers "gadgets", most of the time.

Well yeah, it's specific gameplay concern. Totem theory for tinkers is fine but do they work like shamans then? You know, "class has spells to cast and superb gadgets to place around" or it's not like that? Depends of how it's done and it has to be done on pair quality with other classes.

A lot of that would depend on how Blizzard would structure the class.

A turret system wouldn't work like the totem system for several reasons. Mainly, a Tinker should only have 1-3 types of turrets, and all types should be firing something. A Tinker should also be able to place multiple turrets of the same type.

Via talents you could upgrade the turrets, like have them fire at multiple targets, allow them to move, have their shots reduce the speed of a target, etc.

I'm also an advocate of Blizzard using the "Salvage" system from HotS. When your devices are destroyed or expire, they have a chance to drop scrap, which the Tinker salvages and decreases your cooldowns, and increases your resource. I also think Tinkers should take the Protective Frenzy passive from Siegecrafter Blackfuse, which increases your attack speed when something destroys your devices.

I think that conveys the "inventor relying on their gadgets" fantasy quite well.

And of course we have the Mech.....

[Kuja]

You'll have to think what comes next, and then see if Tinker makes sense. The expansion ends in Argus, an another world. If it doesn't get destroyed at the end, it's possible we'll continue from there in the next expansion. Hard to guess where we'll go from there, but I don't think we'll see 2 new classes in a row, so would have to guess what themed expansion comes after the next expansion instead, which is impossible now. But I'd guess something void or old god related would be in the horizon.

I fail to see how any expansion would be related to engineering and tinkering. WOTLK was undead themed, and we got death knight. MOP was panda related and we got monk. Legion demon related and we got demon hunter.

Can anyone think of a theme that would bring tinkers in?

[Teriz]

Whoa, well that sounds like a nice "dream" to me. I mean, your idea is rather good but I hardly believe that they are ever going to make it like that.

Well I would like to think that the guys at Blizzard are better at game design than I am.

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You'll have to think what comes next, and then see if Tinker makes sense. The expansion ends in Argus, an another world. If it doesn't get destroyed at the end, it's possible we'll continue from there in the next expansion. Hard to guess where we'll go from there, but I don't think we'll see 2 new classes in a row, so would have to guess what themed expansion comes after the next expansion instead, which is impossible now. But I'd guess something void or old god related would be in the horizon.

I fail to see how any expansion would be related to engineering and tinkering. WOTLK was undead themed, and we got death knight. MOP was panda related and we got monk. Legion demon related and we got demon hunter.

Can anyone think of a theme that would bring tinkers in?

Well there was the expansion leak a few months ago that actually made quite a bit of sense for a Tinker inclusion; Azshara/N'Zoth/South Seas.

There's some merit to Tinkers being implemented during such an expansion;

1. If Naga come in as a neutral race, there's a good chance that Blizzard would implement a class to coincide with it, much like MoP. Keep in mind, while Blizzard has never introduced a class back to back, it has released races back to back.
2. There's quite a few Goblin holdings in the south seas region (Gadgetzhan, Kezan/Undermine, Rachet, and Booty Bay) that would be pretty big targets for a Naga invasion (mainly Gadgetzhan, Rachet, and Booty Bay, unless Kezan isn't as damaged as its believed to be). During the course of the expansion, Blizzard could use the opportunity for us to finally see what happened to Kezan and undermine. Additionally, the Gnomes could (finally) take back Gnomeregan.
3. During Legion, major Goblin characters and Gnome characters (well just Mekkatorque) were shown using mechs to fight off the Legion invasions in Broken Shore, the Barrens, Azshara, and Gadgetzhan. The expansion leak states that Goblins and Gnomes use those mechs again to fight back against the initial Naga invasion since the heroes are finishing things up on Argus. While the sudden surge of Goblins in mechs, and Mekkatorque (appearing in his first cinematic ever) riding a brand new mech could be nothing, it could also be a clue to what's coming next.
4. There's been hints dropping all over Legion that N'Zoth/Azshara expansion is next. Here's a pretty good video on them;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erhJRo_Kz8Y

Again, I'm not saying it's definite. Blizzard could go into a completely opposite direction and hit us with a curveball. I'm just saying a lot of that makes sense.

[-Joker-]

Citation please?

Sure thing. Let me Google that for you. Innatism is your answer. The belief that we are born, not as a blank slate, but with some level of knowledge already stored in our minds. Neuroscientists working on Blue Brain Project at EPFL (Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne) are finding proof that this is the case. They’ve discovered that neurons make connections independently of a subject’s experience. Their results have been published in an article in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

Turns out people are born with an innate sense of knowledge and skill. It's been proven medically 6 years ago. But, we're way off topic, and you were just proven wrong, so let's bring this train back on topic.

Tinkers make sense. We have tinkers in WoW, just not the playable class. In another MMO thread, there is even a (somewhat skewed) poll showing Tinkers to be the more likely candidate for the next class. Even in the big poll, Tinkers came in 2nd to Demon Hunters. Since they are now a reality, I would imagine Tinkers to be an actual thing by 9.0.

With that, I am done with this topic. These circuitous horse beating arguments are not my cup of tea. I am far too optimistic, and you are far too... well, you get the idea. Have a nice day.

[Ielenia]

Sure thing. Let me Google that for you. Innatism is your answer.

Did you even read the article, or just skimmed through the parts that interest you? What's written there is a far, far cry from, for example, claiming a person can know how to build a fusion reactor before he's even born.

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2. There's quite a few Goblin holdings in the south seas region (Gadgetzhan, Kezan/Undermine, Rachet, and Booty Bay) that would be pretty big targets for a Naga invasion (mainly Gadgetzhan, Rachet, and Booty Bay, unless Kezan isn't as damaged as its believed to be).

Kezan is literally bordering the maelstrom, and Ratchet is in the center of Kalimdor, You can't get any "center of the map" as it is.

[Thimagryn]

Did you even read the article, or just skimmed through the parts that interest you? What's written there is a far, far cry from, for example, claiming a person can know how to build a fusion reactor before he's even born.

Innatism happens in Warcraft because it's fantasy. We have examples straight from lore of characters magically created or born with knowledge of language, or being able to learn it at an extremely accelerated pace through 'magical' means.

Beyond language, our characters have elements of that tied into their class lore, like Shamans being individuals born with a natural gift to talk to spirits.