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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    This is just completely wrong. The worse the living condition the more children people have because there is no guaranty they make it to adulthood. This can be observed right now in third world countries.
    Ya but they don't pop them all out at once, typically you will only have two kids nursing at a time as you only have two tits. 6 kids between 2 nipples won't even live long enough for survival of the fittest to be a thing, they will starve because one female doesn't produce enough milk for all of them, especially on Draenor where you have to fight tooth an nail for your food.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    Once again how many pregnancy's would it take for you to accept it?
    The amount of cases you can provide is somewhat meaningless. We would need a new canonical source, stating orcs generally aren't born in litters (as a race-wide thing), before we can consider Garonas' statement non-canon.

    You assume too much, just like you did in the other thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    So please, don't fill up another thread with pages of your bullcrap.
    To be fair, it's the same thread that spawned all the other nonsense. So we're just back to fucking with this one again.

  3. #443
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    Ya but they don't pop them all out at once, typically you will only have two kids nursing at a time as you only have two tits. 6 kids between 2 nipples won't even live long enough for survival of the fittest to be a thing, they will starve because one female doesn't produce enough milk for all of them, especially on Draenor where you have to fight tooth an nail for your food.
    Orcs aren't humans. And once again, no line of your reasoning is going to go over the canon, which at this point is still that commonly orcs give birth to liters.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Orcs aren't humans. And once again, no line of your reasoning is going to go over the canon, which at this point is still that commonly orcs give birth to liters.
    Mammaries are Mammaries dude, like i said unless she is getting funneled massive amounts of excess food like a female mole rat she wont be able to produce enough milk to feed a supposed liter.

    Commonly when we have never seen this happen, when it was only stated when Garona was bullshitting with Kadgar, when the only pregnant orcs we have ever actually seen delivered single children. What we have actually been able to verify and not just anecdotal remarks, says single births are the norm in cannon.

  5. #445
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Mammaries are Mammaries dude, like i said unless she is getting funneled massive amounts of excess food like a female mole rat she wont be able to produce enough milk to feed a supposed liter.
    your observations on real liffe do not change canon. How fucking many times must this be repeated to you?

    Commonly when we have never seen this happen, when it was only stated when Garona was bullshitting with Kadgar,
    lol.

    when the only pregnant orcs we have ever actually seen delivered single children. What we have actually been able to verify and not just anecdotal remarks, says single births are the norm in cannon.
    Your feeble understanding on canon and non canon does not make your argument any stronger. Until Blizzard says differently, Orcs commonly give birth to liters, you can keep responding but you wont change canon.

    Seriously guy, why are you so adamant about repeating so much bullshit?
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2017-06-14 at 02:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  6. #446
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    It's likely marquee Orc NPC's only give birth to 1-2 children because of storytelling expediency - it's hard to care about a litter of children from a pairing such as Thrall and Aggra, and focusing on one of them (e.g. Durak) would automatically cast the others in shadow. It's not meant to be a gauge of standard Orcish birthrates. We know from
    "Chronicle Vol. 2," "Rise of the Horde," and various other sources that the Orcs were quite fecund as a result of their dangerous world and lifestyle. Though their numbers were diminished by the First, Second, and presumably Third Wars as well as the loss of their world they're not endangered and it is highly likely they will recover their numbers in a few generations.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    your observations on real liffe do not change canon. How fucking many times must this be repeated to you?



    lol.



    Your feeble understanding on canon and non canon does not make your argument any stronger. Until Blizzard says differently, Orcs commonly give birth to liters, you can keep responding but you wont change canon.

    Seriously guy, why are you so adamant about repeating so much bullshit?
    Its not like we got hard evidence they were ever born in liters in the first place, it was an anecdotal story told by Garona to Khadgar, its pretty clear from how blizzard is actually writing orc pregnancy's that the liter thing isn't true canon anymore i mean if you want to use an anecdotal comment form a book 16 years ago pre orc face lift, to fit your agenda instead of the current lore i guess that's your prerogative, ill use the most recent cannon hard evidence when talking about current orc populations however. Its not like Blizzard hasn't changed lore before See Garona Draenei and other cases.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    It's likely marquee Orc NPC's only give birth to 1-2 children because of storytelling expediency - it's hard to care about a litter of children from a pairing such as Thrall and Aggra, and focusing on one of them (e.g. Durak) would automatically cast the others in shadow. It's not meant to be a gauge of standard Orcish birthrates. We know from
    "Chronicle Vol. 2," "Rise of the Horde," and various other sources that the Orcs were quite fecund as a result of their dangerous world and lifestyle. Though their numbers were diminished by the First, Second, and presumably Third Wars as well as the loss of their world they're not endangered and it is highly likely they will recover their numbers in a few generations.
    Fecund doesn't quite mean liters tho, as far as i am aware only The Last Guardian Mentions liters. Being human male size at 6 Maturing at 12 and probably weaning around 1 would lean to pretty high fecundity without the while implausible liter thing.

  8. #448
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Kilrogg Deadeye, for instance, was a chieftain that easily fitted Garona's criteria, considered how he killed three sons and two grandsons, let alone a son of his is still well and alive at Garadar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    Ya but they don't pop them all out at once, typically you will only have two kids nursing at a time as you only have two tits. 6 kids between 2 nipples won't even live long enough for survival of the fittest to be a thing, they will starve because one female doesn't produce enough milk for all of them, especially on Draenor where you have to fight tooth an nail for your food.
    Your initial point is rough environment means low birth rate, which is not true regardless of how well people can feed their children.

    And you are an authority on orc pregnancy now? For all you know they produce enough to keep up with four kids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    Its not like we got hard evidence they were ever born in liters in the first place, it was an anecdotal story told by Garona to Khadgar, its pretty clear from how blizzard is actually writing orc pregnancy's that the liter thing isn't true canon anymore i mean if you want to use an anecdotal comment form a book 16 years ago pre orc face lift, to fit your agenda instead of the current lore i guess that's your prerogative, ill use the most recent cannon hard evidence when talking about current orc populations however. Its not like Blizzard hasn't changed lore before See Garona Draenei and other cases.
    The most recent cannon doesn't negate Garona's statement at all. Only thing that could is if Blizzard explicitly states it's not.

  10. #450
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    Fecund doesn't quite mean liters tho, as far as i am aware only The Last Guardian Mentions liters. Being human male size at 6 Maturing at 12 and probably weaning around 1 would lean to pretty high fecundity without the while implausible liter thing.
    "Litter" isn't explicated, either; in this case it seems female Orcs of child-bearing age typically produce 4 or more children in their lives as a matter of course. Orcish NPC's in the limelight produce fewer due to the storytelling effects I detailed earlier, and others may produce many more. This isn't very out-of-sync with human birthrates in medieval times, where the difficulty of life and low instances of survival required considerable numbers be born.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  11. #451
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Its not like we got hard evidence they were ever born in liters in the first place
    Someone making observaations on the race they grey up with >any point you are going to make.


    it was an anecdotal story
    someone who grew up with the orcish horde is not anecdotal incidence


    i mean if you want to use an anecdotal comment form a book 16 years ago pre orc face lift, to fit your agenda instead of the current lore i guess that's your prerogative
    lol don't even try this argument. You don't actually care, you just don't want to be wrong. The lore is the lore, and once again so eventually it will stick, your observation is not fact, your opinon does not carry the weight Garona's statement does.

    ill use the most recent cannon hard evidence when talking about current orc populations however. Its not like Blizzard hasn't changed lore before See Garona Draenei and other cases.
    your confusing like 5 pregnancies and believing that it trumps a blanket statement. I seriously question what is wrong with your reasoning
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Kilrogg Deadeye, for instance, was a chieftain that easily fitted Garona's criteria, considered how he killed three sons and two grandsons, let alone a son of his is still well and alive at Garadar.
    Again being fecund doesn't mean hiving birth to 6 kids all at once, Kilrogg could easy have had those 3 sons in just as many years with one orc women, given what we know of their maturity rates.

  13. #453
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    Again being fecund doesn't mean hiving birth to 6 kids all at once, Kilrogg could easy have had those 3 sons in just as many years with one orc women, given what we know of their maturity rates.
    And neither does it mean it didn't happen.


    Your interpretation is not stronger than the established lore. (for the 60th time)
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    Your initial point is rough environment means low birth rate, which is not true regardless of how well people can feed their children.

    And you are an authority on orc pregnancy now? For all you know they produce enough to keep up with four kids.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The most recent cannon doesn't negate Garona's statement at all. Only thing that could is if Blizzard explicitly states it's not.
    What I was saying is that survival of the fittest will only enter in when the kids can actually fight for themselves, 4 newborns with only 2 boobies means someone isn't going to be drinking. The fack of the matter is if you don't have the ability, boobs, to feed a litter you wont be birthing one, its a waste of energy

    Suspending disbelief long enough to think that she some how manages to split boob time evenly for each kid that means mama Orc is going to be nursing a shit load of the time, in addition to other mom stuff, meaning dady orc is going to have to go out and hunt solo. Breast milk production is directly related to how much food and water the mom gets, on a savage place like draenor is hard to feed 3 mouths, let alone 6.

    Most recent canon shows orc moms with single births.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    "Litter" isn't explicated, either; in this case it seems female Orcs of child-bearing age typically produce 4 or more children in their lives as a matter of course. Orcish NPC's in the limelight produce fewer due to the storytelling effects I detailed earlier, and others may produce many more. This isn't very out-of-sync with human birthrates in medieval times, where the difficulty of life and low instances of survival required considerable numbers be born.
    Well ya if litter just refers to all of a female Orcs children over her life i have no problem with 4-6.

    4-6 Per breeding period is were it starts getting a little silly.

  15. #455
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    Well ya if litter just refers to all of a female Orcs children over her life i have no problem with 4-6.

    4-6 Per breeding period is were it starts getting a little silly.
    I imagine when Garona referred to "litters" she meant that births of fraternal twins and triplets might be more common for Orcs as opposed to Humans - twins among the Orcs seem quite common. It's also possible that Fel magic might've been involved by the point she was observing Orcish reproduction rates. We know that the Warlocks were capable of accelerated aging to create more warriors for the Horde quicker, they may have also focused on ensuring births were multiplied using Fel magic.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  16. #456
    The Lightbringer Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    What I was saying is that survival of the fittest will only enter in when the kids can actually fight for themselves, 4 newborns with only 2 boobies means someone isn't going to be drinking. The fack of the matter is if you don't have the ability, boobs, to feed a litter you wont be birthing one, its a waste of energy

    Suspending disbelief long enough to think that she some how manages to split boob time evenly for each kid that means mama Orc is going to be nursing a shit load of the time, in addition to other mom stuff, meaning dady orc is going to have to go out and hunt solo. Breast milk production is directly related to how much food and water the mom gets, on a savage place like draenor is hard to feed 3 mouths, let alone 6.

    Most recent canon shows orc moms with single births.
    Still doesn't change the fact lore is lore. For all you know orc women may produce enough milk for up to four kids.

    The most recent canon about orc births doesn't specifically say orcs aren't born in litters.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I imagine when Garona referred to "litters" she meant that births of fraternal twins and triplets might be more common for Orcs as opposed to Humans - twins among the Orcs seem quite common. It's also possible that Fel magic might've been involved by the point she was observing Orcish reproduction rates. We know that the Warlocks were capable of accelerated aging to create more warriors for the Horde quicker, they may have also focused on ensuring births were multiplied using Fel magic.
    I fully admitted that under the old horde the whole litter birthing thing could have happened, cause warlock magic and demon blood, It not like they cared about the mothers health, and once the babies were out they wouldn't have to worry about nursing, they could just age them up with fell magic, What I took issue with was posters trying to apply this to the New Hordes Orcs.

  18. #458
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikegreenfire View Post
    I fully admitted that under the old horde the whole litter birthing thing could have happened, cause warlock magic and demon blood, It not like they cared about the mothers health, and once the babies were out they wouldn't have to worry about nursing, they could just age them up with fell magic, What I took issue with was posters trying to apply this to the New Hordes Orcs.
    Uh assumptions again. You can assume that warlock magic had something to do it again, but Garona said "orcs commonly give birth in litters" Not, "warlocks make orcs give birth to litters" you can take issue with it all you want, it doesn't really matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Uh assumptions again. You can assume that warlock magic had something to do it again, but Garona said "orcs commonly give birth in litters" Not, "warlocks make orcs give birth to litters" you can take issue with it all you want, it doesn't really matter.
    Considering her only experiences with orc pregnancies were during the era the orcs were ruled by the shadow council the same era in which orc children were aged with magic in order to make soldiers more quickly she had no experience with how Orcs were naturally supposed to breed and grow, that is until she pushed out Med'an, granted she is a half orc and he was 1/4 but still.

  20. #460
    rotfl, using mammals comparisons for stone giant's offspring
    the level of the thread reached a new high

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