Student held in NK comes back in a coma?

[PACOX]

CINCINNATI — A plane carrying University of Virginia student Otto Warmbier, who had been detained in North Korea for 17 months and was in a coma for most of it, touched down in Cincinnati on Tuesday night.

The 22-year-old’s return marks an end to the ordeal that his family has been through, not knowing what had happened to Warmbier since he was sentenced to 15 years in prison with hard labor in March of last year. But the fact that he had been kept, comatose, in North Korea for more than a year could worsen the already tense relationship between Pyongyang and Washington.

Friends and well-wishers gathered outside Cincinnati’s Lunken Airport Terminal ahead of the plane’s arrival at 10:20 p.m. local time, and they cheered when the plane landed.

Otto’s parents, Fred and Cindy, boarded the plane and came out again a few minutes later. Then medical personnel carried Otto Warmbier, who had a shaved head and a tube in his nose, off the plane and onto a stretcher. He was then placed in an ambulance and taken to a nearby hospital.

Locals were waiting outside the airport fence, holding signs that read “WELCOME HOME OTTO” and “PRAYERS FOR OTTO.”

Charlotte and David Simons, who said they have been friends of the family for more than 30 years, came to watch his flight come in, too. “We’re just here to support Cindy and Fred and the family,” Charlotte Simons said.

She was feeling “sick to my stomach for them,” she said, thinking of how their son should have been graduating from college this spring.

David Simons was marveling that another country could treat an American like this. “I can only feel for what the family is going through,” he said, shaking his head.

After a senior State Department official flew to Pyongyang to demand Warmbier’s release on humanitarian grounds, he was flown out in a medical evacuation.

“We get to see our son Otto tonight,” Fred Warmbier said in an interview Tuesday morning after his son was evacuated. “We’ll be relieved to have him home and are looking forward to surrounding him with people who love him.”

Warmbier’s parents hadn’t heard from or seen him since he was sentenced in March 2016 for attempting to steal a propaganda poster at the end of a five-day tour of North Korea.

But amid the relief, there were also new questions about what happened to him: How did a healthy young man fall into such a deep coma? The North Korean government told his parents that food poisoning was to blame. And how does the Trump administration respond?

Three other American citizens are being detained in North Korea, at a time when Kim Jong Un has been firing missiles and threatening to strike the United States. President Trump has been vowing to exert “maximum pressure” on North Korea to make it abandon its nuclear weapons program but has also dangled the prospect of talks with Kim, whom he called a “smart cookie.”

Warmbier was flown out of North Korea on the same day that Dennis Rodman, the controversial former basketball star, arrived for his fifth visit to Pyongyang.

Officials involved in securing Warmbier’s release told The Washington Post that it had nothing to do with Rodman’s trip to Pyongyang, calling it a “bizarre coincidence” that might have been a deliberate ploy from North Korea to distract from Warmbier’s condition.

“Dennis Rodman had nothing to do with the release of Mr. Warmbier,” said Heather Nauert, a State Department spokeswoman, adding that the government was “thankful” that he would soon be home in his parents’ arms.

She also reiterated the State Department’s travel advice against going to North Korea, with which the United States has no diplomatic relations.

“Let me reiterate this: We strongly, strongly suggest that Americans do not go to North Korea,” Nauert said.

[North Korea is still holding 3 other Americans as prisoners]

At the time of his arrest, Warmbier had been on an organized New Year’s tour in North Korea, a five-day stopover on his way to Hong Kong for a study-abroad trip.

But on his final night in Pyongyang — New Year’s Eve — he apparently went to a staff-only floor of his hotel and attempted to take down a large propaganda sign lauding the regime. He was charged with “hostile acts against the state.”

Surrounded by North Korean guards, Warmbier delivered a highly scripted “confession” that appeared to have been written for him, and after an hour-long sham trial in March 2016, he was sentenced to 15 years in prison with hard labor.

He had not been seen in public since, and Swedish diplomats, representing U.S. interests, had been denied consular access to him. Officials involved in negotiations to free Warmbier and another American citizen being detained were told they were being treated as prisoners of war.

During a secret meeting in Oslo last month with Joseph Yun, the State Department’s special representative for North Korea, high-level North Korean officials agreed that Swedish diplomats in Pyongyang would be allowed to visit the four Americans imprisoned by the North.

But in Pyongyang, the Swedes were allowed to see only one detainee, and it wasn’t Warmbier.

As the Americans continued to push for the Swedish diplomats to see all four, North Korea’s ambassador to the United Nations urgently requested a meeting with Yun in New York, according to Trump administration officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity about the still-secret arrangements. There, North Korean officials told Yun about Warmbier’s condition.

He informed Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who consulted with the president, the officials said.

Yun was instructed to prepare to travel to Pyongyang with the intention of bringing Warmbier back to the United States. A medical team and aircraft were organized, and North Korea was informed that a delegation would travel there.

“It wasn’t a situation where they asked,” one official said of the U.S. representatives. The North Koreans “were informed that the airplane would land, American and medical officials would get out.”

Yun was under orders, which the official said came directly from Trump, to demand to see Warm*bier immediately, and, “if he was in bad shape,” to demand his immediate release and evacuation on the plane’s return flight to the United States.

Yun arrived in Pyongyang early Monday with two American physicians. They were immediately taken to Warmbier. Yun insisted on Warmbier’s immediate release on humanitarian grounds, officials said, and the North Koreans agreed.

Tillerson called Trump at 8:35 a.m. Tuesday to inform him that Warmbier was on an airplane en route to the United States, an official said. The last instruction the president left Tillerson was: “Take care of Otto,” the official said.

The Warmbier family said they were informed that North Korean officials had told American envoys that their son became ill with botulism soon after his show trial.

The North Korean account, the family said, claimed that Warm*bier then fell into a coma after being given a sleeping pill. The Warmbiers said they were told their son has remained in a coma since then.

There was no immediate confirmation from U.S. officials of North Korea’s description of his illness — including whether he was stricken with botulism, a potentially fatal disease that is caused by a toxin but is not usually associated with loss of consciousness. U.S. officials in touch with Yun and medical personnel declined to say whether Warmbier remains in a coma or to make any comment on his current medical condition.

North Korean representatives at the United Nations did not respond to repeated requests for comment.

North Korea has woefully inadequate medical care, and it is not clear how North Korean doctors had been caring for Warmbier for more than a year in an unconscious state.

[ North Korea sentences U-Va. student to 15 years of hard labor in prison ]

Warmbier was to have graduated last month had he not been detained.

“While the entire University of Virginia community is relieved to learn of Otto’s release from North Korea, we are deeply concerned and saddened to learn from his family that he is in a coma,” U-Va. President Teresa A. Sullivan said in a statement Tuesday.

Annabella Vagonis, a family friend from Reston, Va., whose daughter was close with Warm*bier at U-Va., said, “We were at turns incredulous, shocked, surprised, joyful and sad, all kind of emotions within a nanosecond of each other when we got the news this morning.

“We are so incredibly joyful that he is finally coming home. We are concerned about his overall health and not knowing the details of his being in a coma. We’re hopeful that with the excellent medical care that he’ll receive that we’ll receive some good news once they examine him. “

Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) called Warmbier’s arrest and trial “unnecessary and appalling,” while lawmakers from Virginia also denounced North Korea’s actions.

The three other Americans detained by North Korea remain there.

A former Virginia resident and naturalized American citizen, Kim Dong-chul, was arrested shortly after Warmbier on accusations of espionage and was sentenced to 10 years with hard labor.

In April and May, North Korea detained two other Korean Americans, both of them affiliated with the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology, a private institution run by Korean American Christians.

Previous detainees have been released after visits from high-profile Americans, including former presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. But efforts to persuade North Korea to release the men now held had not been successful until Warmbier’s release Tuesday.

Fifield reported from Tokyo. Karen DeYoung, David Nakamura and Jenna Portnoy in Washington contributed to this report.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...88f_story.html


Why someone would go to a hostile nation and break their laws is beyond me. The US would have no problems with locking up tourists coming over breaking our laws. But I wouldn't wish a NK sentence on my enemy. Coming back in a coma is pretty extreme.

[Feeline10]

Difference is, we wouldn't lock him up and put him in a concentration camp for 15 years if a tourist took a "propaganda" poster out of our hotels and snuck it into their bags. Realize the difference ya know?

[PACOX]

Difference is, we wouldn't lock him up and put him in a concentration camp for 15 years if a tourist took a "propaganda" poster out of our hotels and snuck it into their bags. Realize the difference ya know?

Great way to start the thread!

Zeroing in on one small thing that I said and completly ignoring the rest. I never alluded to excusing to the inhuman punishments that NK dishes out. NK is a shit country with shit laws but you don't go kick a hornet nest and then complain about the world of suck that follows. I really hope the man makes it through.

[Tijuana]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...88f_story.html


Why someone would go to a hostile nation and break their laws is beyond me. The US would have no problems with locking up tourists coming over breaking our laws. But I wouldn't wish a NK sentence on my enemy. Coming back in a coma is pretty extreme.

Who says he broke their laws? Them? The lesson here is don't go places where justice does not live.

I think we should fire off some missiles at this little fat dictator. Level a couple of his palaces, and then see if he wants to behave.

[Celista]

Their claims regarding botulism leading to coma sound like bullshit, considering he's been in a coma for the last year and almost immediately after his trial. I do not think botulism leads to coma so quickly, even in labor camp conditions.

[Deleted]

Who says he broke their laws? Them? The lesson here is don't go places where justice does not live.

I think we should fire off some missiles at this little fat dictator. Level a couple of his palaces, and then see if he wants to behave.

Say goodbye to the population of Seoul first you lunatic

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Their claims regarding botulism leading to coma sound like bullshit, considering he's been in a coma for the last year and almost immediately after his trial. I do not think botulism leads to coma so quickly, even in labor camp conditions.

Botulism is a very serious condition that requires immediate medical attention. He probably got it in a camp, then obviously you dont get any medical attention so he was fucked as soon as he contracted it. If thats what it is.

[Celista]

Who says he broke their laws? Them? The lesson here is don't go places where justice does not live.

On one hand I think the kid is an idiot for travelling to NK, even with a school group and even if he did absolutely nothing wrong. Supposedly however there is video footage of him stealing a propaganda poster...this is the video...


You can't even tell who it is.

I think we should fire off some missiles at this little fat dictator. Level a couple of his palaces, and then see if he wants to behave.

Yeah it's time. Soon™

[PACOX]

Their claims regarding botulism leading to coma sound like bullshit, considering he's been in a coma for the last year and almost immediately after his trial. I do not think botulism leads to coma so quickly, even in labor camp conditions.

I think they actually said it was due to sleeping pills.

I took an ambien once but gahdamn, wtf do they have in NK?

[Feeline10]

Great way to start the thread!

Zeroing in on one small thing that I said and completly ignoring the rest. I never alluded to excusing to the inhuman punishments that NK dishes out. NK is a shit country with shit laws but you don't go kick a hornet nest and then complain about the world of suck that follows. I really hope the man makes it through.

You quoted an enormous article and posted one sentence. I'm responding to your one sentence.

While I feel we are on the same side and agree, why throw in that one sentence? You know it's as silly as anything.

[Tijuana]

Say goodbye to the population of Seoul first you lunatic

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Botulism is a very serious condition that requires immediate medical attention. He probably got it in a camp, then obviously you dont get any medical attention so he was fucked as soon as he contracted it. If thats what it is.

Nah. I don't buy that we don't have a contingency plan for the Best Korea artillery pointed at Less Korea. I have reason to say that. I might be wrong but, hear me out until Scarborough can post.

Did you follow the Syrian missile attack by the US? It came out in the reports that although it took over 30 minutes to launch the missiles, they all landed within 6 minutes of each other. Apparently, some of them were circling until the others arrived. This makes me wonder if we actually do have the capability to take out all those artillery positions that are pointed South, if it can be done simultaneously.

Also, I'm not sure it's logical for the entire world to be held hostage by NK threatening SK.

[PACOX]

Who says he broke their laws? Them? The lesson here is don't go places where justice does not live.

I think we should fire off some missiles at this little fat dictator. Level a couple of his palaces, and then see if he wants to behave.

Well thats kind of how it works. Nobody is saying that NK is noble and just. I'm saying don't be an idiot.

Don't walk in bad neighborhoods after dark, don't leave your doors unlocked, don't go to fucking North Korea, especially don't go to North Korea and do anything that would draw attention to yourself.

[Celista]

Botulism is a very serious condition that requires immediate medical attention. He probably got it in a camp, then obviously you dont get any medical attention so he was fucked as soon as he contracted it. If thats what it is.

Yeah I know but that still seems fast to me. Also though, not sure how he contacted botulism as it's my understanding that it is mostly contracted via meat products, and from what I've read labor camp prisoners basically subsist on cornbread/rice if they're lucky.

Not saying it's impossible to contract it other ways.

[Feeline10]

Well thats kind of how it works. Nobody is saying that NK is noble and just. I'm saying don't be an idiot.

Don't walk in bad neighborhoods after dark, don't leave your doors unlocked, don't go to fucking North Korea, especially don't go to North Korea and do anything that would draw attention to yourself.

I agree it's idiotic to travel to that shithole ever. But, he did -- and that's not really the problem, in the big picture. The problem is he stole a poster out of a hotel and sentenced him to 15 years in a concentration camp. I know you didn't plan for this thread to take this turn, but I mean.. when you post those one or two sentences after quoting the article people are obviously gonna be like... uh?

[Tijuana]

Well thats kind of how it works. Nobody is saying that NK is noble and just. I'm saying don't be an idiot.

Don't walk in bad neighborhoods after dark, don't leave your doors unlocked, don't go to fucking North Korea, especially don't go to North Korea and do anything that would draw attention to yourself.

Just don't go to North Korea, unless you are an invading soldier. Agreed.

[Spiral Mage]

While what has happened to him is horrible. It isn't surprising.
Why anyone would risk going to North Korea is beyond me.
And even if you did, I'd be acting like I was "walking on eggshells" as the expression goes.
Cause any wrong thing, no matter how little, well .. you can see the result of that.

But taking down a sign praising the regime is damn near suicidal.
So, what he did, he did to himself in the end. A country that F'd up and you "attacked the regime"?
(Taking down a sign IS an attack in their eyes, mind you.)
The result is hardly surprising.

Lesson here: Don't go to North Korea, ever.
If you do, treat it like a glass house. Don't. touch. anything.

[Feeline10]

Yeah I know but that still seems fast to me. Also though, not sure how he contacted botulism as it's my understanding that it is mostly contracted via meat products, and from what I've read labor camp prisoners basically subsist on cornbread/rice if they're lucky.

Not saying it's impossible to contract it other ways.

Most likely because it's a steaming pile of horseshit and he didn't contract botulism at all. He was probably beaten, tortured, abused, and somehow got put into a coma. How one can put someone into a coma.. I mean there must be ways, not sure how, but that ridiculous shit hole does unfortunately have a few doctors and scientists who can probably do weird stuff.

[PACOX]

Nah. I don't buy that we don't have a contingency plan for the Best Korea artillery pointed at Less Korea. I have reason to say that. I might be wrong but, hear me out until Scarborough can post.

Did you follow the Syrian missile attack by the US? It came out in the reports that although it took over 30 minutes to launch the missiles, they all landed within 6 minutes of each other. Apparently, some of them were circling until the others arrived. This makes me wonder if we actually do have the capability to take out all those artillery positions that are pointed South, if it can be done simultaneously.

Also, I'm not sure it's logical for the entire world to be held hostage by NK threatening SK.

The problem is that you would have to make sure that you cripple all of NKs second strike capabilities.

You're talking about an attack on one airbase that didn't even take it out of commission versus taking an country's entire ballistics capabilities. Thats artillery, nukes, factories, and stockpiles.

How is NK holding the world hostage btw? The only countries that are the least bit concerned about NK are SK and Japan.

I would love to see Fat Boy get whats coming to him but we have to be willing to live with blood truths of war to get there. Easier to create rebellion from within. Get his guns to turn against him. Lob some flash drives over the border, give his people a taste of the outside world leading to revolt. Penetrate that great NK firewall.

[Deleted]

Nah. I don't buy that we don't have a contingency plan for the Best Korea artillery pointed at Less Korea. I have reason to say that. I might be wrong but, hear me out until Scarborough can post.

Did you follow the Syrian missile attack by the US? It came out in the reports that although it took over 30 minutes to launch the missiles, they all landed within 6 minutes of each other. Apparently, some of them were circling until the others arrived. This makes me wonder if we actually do have the capability to take out all those artillery positions that are pointed South, if it can be done simultaneously.

Also, I'm not sure it's logical for the entire world to be held hostage by NK threatening SK.

NK isn't holding the world hostage, the only time (besides some baby skirmishes here and there on the border) NK would attack is defensively. They occasionally make some noise when they do an Aid shakedown.

And you want to risk an exchange because some cunt went on holiday there and decided to do something stupid? This is like going to Raqqa and then wondering why the locals behead you.

[Celista]

I think they actually said it was due to sleeping pills.

I took an ambien once but gahdamn, wtf do they have in NK?

Yeah a sleeping pill to help with the botulism lol...ikr, like NK has some super-OP sleeping pills that the US does not have

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Most likely because it's a steaming pile of horseshit and he didn't contract botulism at all.

Yeah it seems like bullshit to me.

[PACOX]

Yeah I know but that still seems fast to me. Also though, not sure how he contacted botulism as it's my understanding that it is mostly contracted via meat products, and from what I've read labor camp prisoners basically subsist on cornbread/rice if they're lucky.

Not saying it's impossible to contract it other ways.

From what I've heard, foreign prisoners don't get the same exact raw deal as NK citizens. Foreign prisoners are used as leverage for money and demands. You need your leverage in somewhat decent shape if you expect get anything from people who care about them. I'm thinking someone in charge of the guys well-being will also find themself in a labor camp for "damaging the goods". Notice how only one guy was released.