[Legion] Brusalk's Destro Guide

[ThePhantombox]

Lets see... The spriest gold traits are Mass Hysteria, Call to the Void, Sphere of Insanity, and Lash of Insanity. Browsing through some ptr spriest parses I could see Call to the Void and Sphere of Insanity dealing some damage, Mass Hysteria buffing SWP and VT, and Lash of Insanity generating insanity. Therefore, none of the spriest gold traits are COMPLETELY useless in contrast to RE destro warlock's Eternal Struggle which is a LITERALLY useless trait (literally no benefit at all, ever).

Eternal struggle is a minor trait, (a shit one normally, at that, taking damage to get a tiny bit of DR is barely ever useful). You're losing the benefit of a trait that barely even benefited you in the first place and btw, nothing stops you from life tapping with RE if you want that DR so badly.

My point is you need to calm the fuck down, it's really not a big deal.

so bugger off to spriest forums.

Um, no?

[Maleific]

For anyone needing a bits WA, this works well:

https://wago.io/4kxfS3qRG

Thank you!

Rather enjoying the destruction changes, it's making me want to raid again.

[Brusalk]

im wondering where this guide will be updated....

If you mean when, I'm in the process of writing the update and it'll be updated by EOD Saturday.

[Uzkin]

Eternal struggle is a minor trait, (a shit one normally, at that, taking damage to get a tiny bit of DR is barely ever useful). You're losing the benefit of a trait that barely even benefited you in the first place and btw, nothing stops you from life tapping with RE if you want that DR so badly.

My point is you need to calm the fuck down, it's really not a big deal.

Well, you were under the wrong impression that spriests have "two entirely useless gold traits" so I felt I had to correct your misconceptions. Those traits are not comparable to what the Eternal Struggle trait is for Reverse-Entropy destruction (= a trait which becomes useless when choosing a particular talent).

I wanted to know if there were any other class-spec combos whose particular artifact trait is made completely useless by choosing a particular talent. Apparently there aren't, so I conclude that this is not intended and Eternal Struggle (ES) is just an oversight which should be brought into Blizzard's attention, and fixed. The design of "Impish Incineration" (II) is a further proof of this. Baseline, it buffs imp damage but it works differently when the destro lock uses the sacrifice or doomguard talents. ES is exactly in the same situation as baseline II: it becomes useless if you talent into Reverse Entropy, just like imp +damage becomes useless if you talent into sacrifice or supremacy. Note that "useless" is not the same as "unusable": you *can* use imp with sacrifice and supremacy talented just like you *can* use life tap with reverse entropy; those are usable but useless.

Whether or not ES is generally weak is a different topic. The design intent of artifact traits obviously is that a talent choice shouldn't make a trait useless; there are plenty of examples (e.g. II) where the trait works differently for different talents. With this in mind, Eternal Struggle should be fixed so that it doesn't become useless with the Reverse Entropy talent. Destro artifact already has a *very weak* 4-point talent in Devourer of Life; to have a *useless* 4-point talent on top of that with a particular talent choice is an issue that requires a fix.

[Soluna]

Wow, destro changes are so good. 2.5 mil Chaos bolts with lessons+ELT+Soul harvest up, 1.6-2.1 mil otherwise depending on what's up at that moment.
Havoc needs some thought to be useful now, but you can get such crazy cleave out of it!
Soul shard bits feel better as a regen thing than old way. Destro ST is pretty good now and cleave is extremely good. Channel demonfire is strong and feels smoother to use with 20 secs cd at 30% haste! Cataclysm 30 secs feels SOOOO natural also, always up for each trash pack in M+!

Anyone else LOVES these changes?!?!?!

Only thing I am scared off is that they will nerf us
Idk, pre patch warrs/dhs of my guild would wreck me, frost mages too, tonight I could beat all of them, they are doing same dps as before more or less, its me who got upwards of 200k+ dps increase on ST. >_> And I don't think blizz wants destro to be that good of a ST with that extremely bursty cleave it can get too.

[SpikeySquad]

Wow, destro changes are so good. 2.5 mil Chaos bolts with lessons+ELT+Soul harvest up, 1.6-2.1 mil otherwise depending on what's up at that moment.
Havoc needs some thought to be useful now, but you can get such crazy cleave out of it!
Soul shard bits feel better as a regen thing than old way. Destro ST is pretty good now and cleave is extremely good. Channel demonfire is strong and feels smoother to use with 20 secs cd at 30% haste! Cataclysm 30 secs feels SOOOO natural also, always up for each trash pack in M+!

Anyone else LOVES these changes?!?!?!

Only thing I am scared off is that they will nerf us
Idk, pre patch warrs/dhs of my guild would wreck me, frost mages too, tonight I could beat all of them, they are doing same dps as before more or less, its me who got upwards of 200k+ dps increase on ST. >_> And I don't think blizz wants destro to be that good of a ST with that extremely bursty cleave it can get too.

This is much more how Destro should play in my opinion.

I can only go by my guild so far, until I study the log statistics later, but have to agree with you that it feels too strong at this point in time.

[Oziemaster]

WW monk's Death Art, on the other hand, isn't a useless trait. If I play on WW monk for an afternoon, doing myth+s, WQs, pug some raids, ... I get benefit from the trait on multiple occasions.

Yeah, you get benefit from it if you don't play properly. 99% of the time that trait is useless and provides a literal 0 dps. You're just spouting nonsense just to get your valid point across. Yeah, the trait is useless. But to say death art is not useless as well is just odd.

[Lucrece]

Wow, destro changes are so good. 2.5 mil Chaos bolts with lessons+ELT+Soul harvest up, 1.6-2.1 mil otherwise depending on what's up at that moment.
Havoc needs some thought to be useful now, but you can get such crazy cleave out of it!
Soul shard bits feel better as a regen thing than old way. Destro ST is pretty good now and cleave is extremely good. Channel demonfire is strong and feels smoother to use with 20 secs cd at 30% haste! Cataclysm 30 secs feels SOOOO natural also, always up for each trash pack in M+!

Anyone else LOVES these changes?!?!?!

Only thing I am scared off is that they will nerf us
Idk, pre patch warrs/dhs of my guild would wreck me, frost mages too, tonight I could beat all of them, they are doing same dps as before more or less, its me who got upwards of 200k+ dps increase on ST. >_> And I don't think blizz wants destro to be that good of a ST with that extremely bursty cleave it can get too.

It's just you.

Destro ST didn't go up by so much as to go from the bottom barrel ST spec into being competitive with top performers.

Cleave is not better. It's worse without talenting into Wreak Havoc, the patch only made you more dependent on that talent for constant cleave.

The one thing that got good for destro is burst on an add.

Honestly, having previously had lessons+feretory, the 7.2.5 changes only have an impact on sustaining after the opening burst.

The spec feels worse for mythic+ with the nerf to havoc uptimes. AoE is still mediocre. ST, you'll still lose to ST specs.

Just cross your fingers that add burst makes you particularly desirable over the alternatives. Having tried affliction, it still feels dominant over destro.

[Buckles44]

It's just you.

Destro ST didn't go up by so much as to go from the bottom barrel ST spec into being competitive with top performers.

Cleave is not better. It's worse without talenting into Wreak Havoc, the patch only made you more dependent on that talent for constant cleave.

The one thing that got good for destro is burst on an add.

Honestly, having previously had lessons+feretory, the 7.2.5 changes only have an impact on sustaining after the opening burst.

The spec feels worse for mythic+ with the nerf to havoc uptimes. AoE is still mediocre. ST, you'll still lose to ST specs.

Just cross your fingers that add burst makes you particularly desirable over the alternatives. Having tried affliction, it still feels dominant over destro.

No it's just you. You must not be playing right. ST is better than it's ever been this xpac. Even RAID leader commented on the amount of purple at the top of the dog meters on fights like Star Augur and Krosus. Git gud

[Lucrece]

No it's just you. You must not be playing right. ST is better than it's ever been this xpac. Even RAID leader commented on the amount of purple at the top of the dog meters on fights like Star Augur and Krosus. Git gud

Nobody said ST isn't up. Just that it isn't up to be beating frost mages let alone affliction.

[Oziemaster]

Nobody said ST isn't up. Just that it isn't up to be beating frost mages let alone affliction.

Yeah it is, it's a top 3 single target spec right now.

[Gaidax]

Nobody said ST isn't up. Just that it isn't up to be beating frost mages let alone affliction.

The fuck are you talking about lol? Destro ST is top notch... Frost Mages? They aren't even close.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...863&dataset=90

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I'm legit praying Destro won't get nerfbat, simply because T20 is Meh.

[Blofeld]

Anyone tested it out in M+ yet? I'm curious as to how it will compete w/ affli going forward.

[Soluna]

It's just you.

Destro ST didn't go up by so much as to go from the bottom barrel ST spec into being competitive with top performers.

Cleave is not better. It's worse without talenting into Wreak Havoc, the patch only made you more dependent on that talent for constant cleave.

The one thing that got good for destro is burst on an add.

Honestly, having previously had lessons+feretory, the 7.2.5 changes only have an impact on sustaining after the opening burst.

The spec feels worse for mythic+ with the nerf to havoc uptimes. AoE is still mediocre. ST, you'll still lose to ST specs.

Just cross your fingers that add burst makes you particularly desirable over the alternatives. Having tried affliction, it still feels dominant over destro.

Hmmm, I would like to disagree.
I mean, sure, permanent havoc was a cool cleaving ability but, having 10 secs of havoc only, on a quick cd (25 secs with wreck havoc) makes you think of when to use it properly so that you can find 3-4 duplicated chaos bolts in it. Due to the buff of the chaos bolts (dealing like 50-100% increased damage after patch), the burst is insane and usually adds don't live longer than 10-15 seconds, so I think that this is perfect.

And how can it be that the specc's dps didn't go up, if you are telling me that it went from bottom to being competitive with top dpsers? How does that make sense?
Lmao man, warlock destro is viable as fuck now.


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Anyone tested it out in M+ yet? I'm curious as to how it will compete w/ affli going forward.

It is really strong in my opinion. Hitting 2-3 million dps on trash packs of 3-4 mobs consistently with 903 ilvl. I take cata+channel demonfire (havoc will be up on almost every trash pack on high mythic+). I haven't played affli though in M+. I imagine it isn't as strong anymore either due to the SoC and SF nerfs though.
Single target really strong too, 1.3 mil ST on bosses, since they simply melt the fuck down. I was doing a mythic+13 by the way.

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The fuck are you talking about lol? Destro ST is top notch... Frost Mages? They aren't even close.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...863&dataset=90

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I'm legit praying Destro won't get nerfbat, simply because T20 is Meh.

I am so scared of that too man D: I don't want any nerfs, we are so good right now T_T

[Deleted]

It is really strong in my opinion. Hitting 2-3 million dps on trash packs of 3-4 mobs consistently with 903 ilvl. I take cata+channel demonfire (havoc will be up on almost every trash pack on high mythic+). I haven't played affli though in M+. I imagine it isn't as strong anymore either due to the SoC and SF nerfs though.
Single target really strong too, 1.3 mil ST on bosses, since they simply melt the fuck down. I was doing a mythic+13 by the way.

Very happy that destro is finally viable in m+ again1 Thanks for that feedback @Valaut !

I did a 14 and a 16 as affli yesterday and with PS & DE, it still rocks in higher m+. I didn't dare going destro because I wasn't sure it would perform, but I guess with 30-second cata & CDF, trash will be really fun. Not so sure about bosses, though: Do you take ELT or Erad? Is it still worth it to use Cata on ST?

Also very curious about those warcraftlogs that Gaidax posted. Seems destro is really good by now.

[Duckz0rs]

Not so sure about bosses, though: Do you take ELT or Erad? Is it still worth it to use Cata on ST?

Cata is still worth it in ST, just use it as on CD as possible to refresh immolate. The choice between ELT and Erad would come down to your set up and the dungeon. Erad gives slightly higher ST, stacking well with CDF on bosses if used properly. ELT is kind of a jack of all trades giving decent gains on bosses and trash.

[Blofeld]

Cata is still worth it in ST, just use it as on CD as possible to refresh immolate. The choice between ELT and Erad would come down to your set up and the dungeon. Erad gives slightly higher ST, stacking well with CDF on bosses if used properly. ELT is kind of a jack of all trades giving decent gains on bosses and trash.

So Cata beats F&B even on higher keys? I thought F&B edges out with sustained AoE, along with more shards for RoF. But if not, that's cool too. I love Cata's synergy with Channel Demonfire.

[Duckz0rs]

So Cata beats F&B even on higher keys? I thought F&B edges out with sustained AoE, along with more shards for RoF. But if not, that's cool too. I love Cata's synergy with Channel Demonfire.

Dunno about that to be honest, haven't properly compared them yet. Was only commenting on the fact that if you take Cata as a talent it's not a DPS loss to use it in ST situations.

Might do a proper side-by-side today, but more likely tomorrow (in M+)

[Soluna]

Very happy that destro is finally viable in m+ again1 Thanks for that feedback @Valaut !

I did a 14 and a 16 as affli yesterday and with PS & DE, it still rocks in higher m+. I didn't dare going destro because I wasn't sure it would perform, but I guess with 30-second cata & CDF, trash will be really fun. Not so sure about bosses, though: Do you take ELT or Erad? Is it still worth it to use Cata on ST?

Also very curious about those warcraftlogs that Gaidax posted. Seems destro is really good by now.

Yeah I always pre-cast cata on bosses, and it's quite nice! I am pretty sure soul harvest would be better at ST, but cata isn't that horrible considering its huge value in aoe for trash and some bosses with adds. And I take ELT, kinda used to the 'take dmg to deal more dmg' thing I like to precast it before each trash pack for 10% higher dmg through out the whole instance. Erad would be good for ST only or cleave, but I feel like ELT is better overall cause cata benefits from it and rain of fire and channel demonfire But that's my personal opinion and its still early, I have to test more to see how things go

[Uzkin]

I agree that destro damage feels good now. Both AoE and ST are noticeably better.

Solo questing feels a lot worse now, though, due to Havoc being so rarely available. Once again they could have fixed it properly simply by reverting back to the old mechanics (charge system) but instead they stubbornly try to make their legion redesign work... and fail. Long cooldown + long duration works ok for raid encounters (when the adds spawn at an appropriate rate and you can Havoc the boss), but not for much else. Destro doesn't feel like a cleave spec any more due to cleave being so rarely available.