[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Morally Grey Storm]

A month? More like a year.

hey! No need to be pessimistic and all doom and gloom like those whiny whiners!
be realistic! keep on the positive!

More nerfs means less buffs!
Wait a minute...

[Nition]

Lewl just went through the 95% of 7.0-7.1 in warcraftlogs (guarm/ursoc/nythendra) and then on whatever can be regarded as close to st in nighthold (7.2+). The downgrade is real , the nerfs keep coming and I cannot believe there are people here and there popping saying that everything is fine and every change justifiable.

For anyone who can't be bothered looking it up.
Edit: Sorry for my mouse being in the middle of the screen, whoops!


Star Auger Mythic 95th percentile


Guarm 95th percentile:


Nythendra 95th percentile:

[Burgerberg]

There is a really annoying poster on the WoW forums called Beraht who keeps on making excuses for Blizzard's treatment of Paladins, when people comment we're no where near the top as far as single target goes (compared to warriors, rogues and mages) all he says is to "just try harder". Um I'm sorry, but trying harder does not make something mathematically impossible, possible.

He always seems to be there cheerleading Blizzard when they nerf us, at one point he advocated some nerfs which we got (the cloak and belt nerfs).

[Reith]

There is a really annoying poster on the WoW forums called Beraht who keeps on making excuses for Blizzard's treatment of Paladins, when people comment we're no where near the top as far as single target goes (compared to warriors, rogues and mages) all he says is to "just try harder". Um I'm sorry, but trying harder does not make something mathematically impossible, possible.

He always seems to be there cheerleading Blizzard when they nerf us, at one point he advocated some nerfs which we got (the cloak and belt nerfs).

Sounds like he doesn't run with any good DPS in his groups.

[Deleted]

@Nition : cheers for putting this up.
The issue is the majority of us were concerned about the nerfs and some adopted an ok-ish behaviour towards initial nerfs when rest classes received buffs. All we asked for in exchange was viable talents instead of a nobrainer-cookie-cutter build and/or improved mobility and/or improved utility. We got jack-shit. And we received even further downgrading. And the nerf bat still there hittin ( not playing wack-a-mole anymore, they just hit the same mole over and over). And there are still people playin this class saying that rets perform decent , they are a fun specc to play and some of the nerfs are justified.
Can they please refer me to their drug dealer ?

[Reith]

They swapped T20 2 set and 4 set bonuses... why?

[Deleted]

They swapped T20 2 set and 4 set bonuses... why?

If you think i can't get any worse ...

[zTrikky]

There is a really annoying poster on the WoW forums called Beraht who keeps on making excuses for Blizzard's treatment of Paladins, when people comment we're no where near the top as far as single target goes (compared to warriors, rogues and mages) all he says is to "just try harder". Um I'm sorry, but trying harder does not make something mathematically impossible, possible.

He always seems to be there cheerleading Blizzard when they nerf us, at one point he advocated some nerfs which we got (the cloak and belt nerfs).

lol he's the guy who said divine storm going through walls, climbing walls and pulling things underneath you is intentional because "wooden walls are not more powerful than holy magic". ignore him.

[Morally Grey Storm]

If you think i can't get any worse ...

Draught of Souls damage is reduced by 15% for Fury Warriors (was 40%).
Draught of Souls damage is reduced by 20% for Arms Warriors (was 40%).

[Reith]

Too much holy power with T19 4pc and T20 2pc? Would be my guess.

"Too much" how lol we're rock bottom in class DPS in single target. Not like I can switch to an alternate DPS spec like Rogues can. Makes no sense to switch them, except if you want to piss people off.

- - - Updated - - -

Draught of Souls damage is reduced by 15% for Fury Warriors (was 40%).
Draught of Souls damage is reduced by 20% for Arms Warriors (was 40%).

How is that relevant? o_O They buffed Mortal Strike by 12%, you know.

[Morally Grey Storm]

How is that relevant? o_O They buffed Mortal Strike by 12%, you know.

They tremendously reduced the amount of impact DoS nerf was going to make on Warriors, and compensated them a lot for it.
Now please do recall how it happened with Retribution and CoS nerf.
Then check the quote I responded to.
Figure out the rest.

[Temna]

Outside of flat number increases right now, I dont think there is too much that can be done with the spec. The main issue keeping us afloat and holding us back is probably Crusade and since its so integral to PvE they can't just pluck it out.

Legitimately Crusade is likely an expansion level problem (along with all the other niggly bits but this is the big one) so really the only path I can see is baselining it for now, replace the talent and add a 3rd to the lvl 100 tier since ret is the only spec without 3 talents in the lvl 100 row and tweak number accordingly.

[Deleted]

They tremendously reduced the amount of impact DoS nerf was going to make on Warriors, and compensated them a lot for it.
Now please do recall how it happened with Retribution and CoS nerf.
Then check the quote I responded to.
Figure out the rest.

I actually agree a lot with Sorrow on this matter. The nerf to DoS (which was needed) and the IMMEDIATE response - slight adjustment after all the -justified- QQ from the warriors, in comparison with the CoF treatment to rets, is really something questionable.

Also, since US has the patch some hours now, rets are legit utter shit at the moment. Can QQ turn things up around a little? I mean, we got buffs at the start of 7.2 no? This really can't be the deal...

[Reith]

They tremendously reduced the amount of impact DoS nerf was going to make on Warriors, and compensated them a lot for it.
Now please do recall how it happened with Retribution and CoS nerf.
Then check the quote I responded to.
Figure out the rest.

That's a bit different because we weren't relying on Convergence - but yeah, ret seems to be an afterthought.

[Morally Grey Storm]

That's a bit different because we weren't relying on Convergence - but yeah, ret seems to be an afterthought.

No, it's not.
The deal is not about the mechanics. The deal is about the approach.
Bzzd seemed ok with Retribution having NO trinket upgrades for 2 raid dungeons straight, and very much swiftly DESTROYED CoF for us on the NH rlease day while applying some additional nerfs for no reason besides Retribution encroaching into top5-tier territory(Crusader nerf, ES nerf).

Now then, DoS nerf.
Which happens 1 week before ToS opening, is very much compensated for both specs, magnitude of said nerf greatly reduced, and there are numerous buffs to recompensate.

If that doesn't raise questions about equal approach to specs(and a few other questions), I am out of Justice.

[Nition]

I actually agree a lot with Sorrow on this matter. The nerf to DoS (which was needed) and the IMMEDIATE response - slight adjustment after all the -justified- QQ from the warriors, in comparison with the CoF treatment to rets, is really something questionable.

Also, since US has the patch some hours now, rets are legit utter shit at the moment. Can QQ turn things up around a little? I mean, we got buffs at the start of 7.2 no? This really can't be the deal...

How shit is utter shit. Guild is trying to kill guldan in the next 2 raid nights, and wondering whether I should be benched for better dps...

[Burgerberg]

No, it's not.
The deal is not about the mechanics. The deal is about the approach.
Bzzd seemed ok with Retribution having NO trinket upgrades for 2 raid dungeons straight, and very much swiftly DESTROYED CoF for us on the NH rlease day while applying some additional nerfs for no reason besides Retribution encroaching into top5-tier territory(Crusader nerf, ES nerf).

Now then, DoS nerf.
Which happens 1 week before ToS opening, is very much compensated for both specs, magnitude of said nerf greatly reduced, and there are numerous buffs to recompensate.

If that doesn't raise questions about equal approach to specs(and a few other questions), I am out of Justice.

There is some fuckhead in the Blizzard development team who just hates ret, so it's always an afterthought. Probably that dev with that cutsey dragon avatar, Celestion or whatever they're called.

[Deleted]

What happened with this damn patch? Or was the ring + belt always simming better than cloak + belt?

Also, has any1 tried a 900ilvl Infernal Alchemist Stone? Could it be worth for ToS progression?

edit: Watching some streams of mythic raiding atm, am i the only one who's bothered by the frost mages owning everything at high ilvl? I mean sure, ret could use a nerf (SMALL ONE JESUS), so could frost mages though (and some buffs for fire). Yet they are untouchable and pretty much /flex on every ST fight.

[Neldarie]

edit: Watching some streams of mythic raiding atm, I mean sure, ret could use a nerf (SMALL ONE JESUS)

What are you smoking, sir?

and @Nition Ret is still a very strong spec for GD progress (yes utility lols).

[Deleted]

What are you smoking, sir?

and @Nition Ret is still a very strong spec for GD progress (yes utility lols).

You are right actually and i ain't smoking shit, that's the weird part. I mean, they could at least leave BotA out of the nerf fest or DH even. I main a ret and i wouldn't ever request a nerf but truth is, ppl were complaining about our "overpowerness" especially in M+.