[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Morally Grey Storm]

I mean sure, ret could use a nerf (SMALL ONE JESUS), so could frost mages though

Did you just compare Ret dps with Frost dps?

[Deleted]

Did you just compare Ret dps with Frost dps?

As i said above, don't mind me, i'm a bit dizzy from work. Bottom line, if they nerf ret like 5% or something, there SHOULD be a BIGGER nerf for frost mages (example, insert w/e class feels a lot higher atm).
@Sorrow way ahead of you, you'll tell me i'm using logic which doesn't apply to blizzard. I expect a little bit of logic to exist when shit like these happen.

[Deleted]

As far as I am concerned the only viable utility tool in the arsenal that has some kind of consistent use for high end PVE is BOW. One could argue that cleanse is also unique but how many encounters made use of it ? And on top of it there is the case of low output.
Unless someone is talking about m+ and is happy doing that shit over and over again (literally the only expansion I have ran through all that trouble and I am really bored of it) where again it is not utility we are talking about it is only the fact of consistent cleave and better than average survivability tools that have some indirect utility in oh-shit situations (and again if we talk about high keys I would like to see one coming up saying how he saved a +20 key because of his utility trolololol).
So as far as cutting edge progress and high end pvp is concerned I don't see any reason at all to pick a ret among the rest

[Morally Grey Storm]

As i said above, don't mind me, i'm a bit dizzy from work. Bottom line, if they nerf ret like 5% or something, there SHOULD be a BIGGER nerf for frost mages (example, insert w/e class feels a lot higher atm).
@Sorrow way ahead of you, you'll tell me i'm using logic which doesn't apply to blizzard. I expect a little bit of logic to exist when shit like these happen.

Which is why you are not ahead of me.
You are using logic and expecting bzzd to use logic.
You're so far behind it's like I'm Adrian Chase to your Oliver Queen

[Neldarie]

You are right actually and i ain't smoking shit, that's the weird part. I mean, they could at least leave BotA out of the nerf fest or DH even. I main a ret and i wouldn't ever request a nerf but truth is, ppl were complaining about our "overpowerness" especially in M+.

I'd somewhat agree about m+ untill you actually get to relevant level tyranical. Ret in m+ was still mostly a trashdestroyer and fell behind everyone else on anything taking longer than 2-3mins to kill (bosswise).

Problem is when ya start balancing stuff around 5mans; you will end up with idiocy like world pvp in pve aswell.

[Deleted]

I'd somewhat agree about m+ untill you actually get to relevant level tyranical. Ret in m+ was still mostly a trashdestroyer and fell behind everyone else on anything taking longer than 2-3mins to kill (bosswise).

Problem is when ya start balancing stuff around 5mans; you will end up with idiocy like world pvp in pve aswell.

True, ret still is (i want to believe) very reliable when it comes to trash in M+. But yeah, bosswise on long fights we would get rekt, unless CoF did miracles.

[Deleted]

lul logic

ret is fine

[Deleted]

Came across this image... it was pretty funny so i had to share:

[Reisar]

So today im doing more dps with my 901 ilvl destro lock (1 bis legend, 1 bad legend, no tier bonus at all, lfr metronome...), than my 917 ilvl pally with constant 96-99% parses and bis legends. Yeah, destro is a strong spect right now but this has no sense at all (better to not look at warriors lol)...

And no, im not exaggerating, this is at least my current reality, we are totally useless damage wise, and thats all that matters on mythic progress.
We really need some changes and we need them fast..


PD: Sorry about my english, tried my best

[Michael000]

Haha and this is the state of ret because most of the Ret community is fking retarded. I said back in Jan they never should have nerfed Crusade and people argued that it was needed.

All you people saying this was needed are looking to tune the wrong thing first, the biggest outlier on most of those ridiculous parses is the Retribution buff. Just taking this out and not nerfing crusade will tune us more in line, fact is during progression tons of people are gonna die if they happen to die at an opportune time THIS is where most of those monster parses come from 90+ percentile. This ability needs to not exist. Anytime someone dies in my wings when ive got full stacks up I know im putting up a guaranteed orange parse. Much like Might making our damage dependent on someone playing well. Some of our damage shouldn't be baked into someone playing poorly.

-Crusade at 52.5% isn't horribly OP given how wet noodle we are outside of Crusade
-62.5% w/ the legendary belt is starting to get into that "too good" territory
-82.5% w/ the legendary belt and the Retribution buff especially if someone dies so you get the full 20 on most of the back end of your wings is actually broken.

And people that are saying crusade needs to be nerfed just so we can use NH trinkets are so completely off base its sad. Nerfing specs to make a couple trinkets viable as opposed to just making a wide variety of GOOD trinkets is beyond incompetent on their end.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post44285335

Until people start to realize that the Retribution buff is the core mechanic that's the problem no amount of numbers tuning is ever going to be right for us cause we'll either be too OP or horribly underpowered

[Deleted]

The nerf would've been fine if they upheld their end of the bargain wich was to unerf CoF. They made it still be pretty meh.

I don't mean all the way, but in a way where it is clearly a very good trinket like Draught was for warriors (a bit less though).

[Michael000]

The nerf would've been fine if they upheld their end of the bargain wich was to unerf CoF. They made it still be pretty meh.

I don't mean all the way, but in a way where it is clearly a very good trinket like Draught was for warriors (a bit less though).

Lol like I said, shortsighted views like this from majority of the Ret community while not the main reason is a reason Ret is where it is.

So they nerf crusade 7.5% both ways, then they unnnerf CoF. Tier ends we move on to ToS and then you need a trinket as OP to make up for the nerf you happily took for NH. Accepting a nerf to THE SINGLE ABILITY WE'RE BUILT AROUND means you need to have an OP tier set/trinket/both to be competitive and that leads to a constant yo-yo of praying we get those or we get significant number tunings. We again got neither in ToS so we are where we are, at Blizzards mercy to turn the knob hopefully enough that we're competitive.

People begging for reworks of the 100 talents or other rows are asking for more than they're likely to ever get. What Ret can still salvage this expac is to at least give us some kind of set baseline so they can properly number tune after that. This will never happen w/ the Retribution buff having a damage component as you will always have crazy outliers at the 99+ percentile.

[Deleted]

Lol like I said, shortsighted views like this from majority of the Ret community while not the main reason is a reason Ret is where it is.

So they nerf crusade 7.5% both ways, then they unnnerf CoF. Tier ends we move on to ToS and then you need a trinket as OP to make up for the nerf you happily took for NH. Accepting a nerf to THE SINGLE ABILITY WE'RE BUILT AROUND means you need to have an OP tier set/trinket/both to be competitive and that leads to a constant yo-yo of praying we get those or we get significant number tunings. We again got neither in ToS so we are where we are, at Blizzards mercy to turn the knob hopefully enough that we're competitive.

People begging for reworks of the 100 talents or other rows are asking for more than they're likely to ever get. What Ret can still salvage this expac is to at least give us some kind of set baseline so they can properly number tune after that. This will never happen w/ the Retribution buff having a damage component as you will always have crazy outliers at the 99+ percentile.

You need to be knocked down a notch. Don't come tell me this like that is what i or anyone else wanted. The short sided one is you for trying to blame the players for what is Blizzards mistake. Are you also gonna tell us how short sided we were when we made a fuss about equality and they didn't give a s**t?

Theres plenty of ways to fix Ret. The situation you are using to blame everyone for something that is not their fault, mr selective memory is that Blizzard didn't like the way we dealt our damage. Everyone had to comment on that framework. The nerf was coming wether you liked it or not and most likely won't go away.
Ret was alright for most of the tier. The situation here is there were many nerfs. Be it the 2k strength trait, the DH nerf and the tier bonuses but there wasn't enough compensation while many other specs saw buffs.


Also, i'm pretty sure most of us agree with the basic wishes i'm sure you will claim as yours, like taking the damage component of Ret passive away, making BoJ magical damage, reverting crusade nerf (even though theres little chance of that happening) and reverting DH nerf.
Yes, that is a dream scenario that Blizz will never go for because that is not their problem, it's ours. Their problem atm is that our damage is low. They will simply increase the damage of abilities. That is how blizz operates. They fix problems as they present themselves, they don't plan ahead. If they did class design wouldn't be what it is.

[Burgerberg]

What makes you think Blizzard will ever change? They've done this to ret time and time again... don't you people ever learn from history, or are you just masochists? There is clearly someone in their dev team who doesn't like them one bit.

When was the last time ret was top tier or near that for more than one tier in a row?

[Deleted]

As pointed out before the difference in our position in ST on real scenarios like mythic guarm in 7.1 and mythic star in 7.2 are vast. Point is we performed in a really different way between these 2 patches even with the progression finished and the retribution passive irrelevant. But I agree that removing the damage component from that passive would be the only nerf welcomed from the ret community and the only way such a random passive wold not mess with the tuning

[Ryuji]

What makes you think Blizzard will ever change? They've done this to ret time and time again... don't you people ever learn from history, or are you just masochists? There is clearly someone in their dev team who doesn't like them one bit.

When was the last time ret was top tier or near that for more than one tier in a row?

Don't know about tiers 1 through 6, but they did pretty well in 7, decent in 8, upper tier in 9, amazing in 10, decent in 11, upper tier again in 12, good in 13, pretty good in 14, about the same in 15, amazing in 16, good in 17, great in 18, pretty well in 19.

As far as I remember, it was at high points in 7, 10, 13, 16, 17 and 18.

[Deleted]

stuff

crawl back to the hole you call your home...
that we are build around 1 ability is nothing new to us and we are well aware of this fact. you don´t have to point this out to us in all your misplaced arrogance. The only one who has a damn right to be arrogant around us is annaxi and he is seldom around here anymore...
That we had asked for unnerfing the trinket while accepting the nerf to crusade was reasonable when considering the available options. We won't see any mechanical changes until next xpack so we have to go for the next best thing and fly on sight until next xpack beta comes around.
Putting the entire blame on retribution is BS as well. retribution is fine in itself only the combination of both buffs is retarded. there are 3 Solution to this issue:
- removing dmg component of the procc
- not activating the procc during crusade
- redesigning and balancing our lvl 100 row

[Morally Grey Storm]

crawl back to the hole you call your home...
that we are build around 1 ability is nothing new to us and we are well aware of this fact. you don´t have to point this out to us in all your misplaced arrogance. The only one who has a damn right to be arrogant around us is annaxi and he is seldom around here anymore...
That we had asked for unnerfing the trinket while accepting the nerf to crusade was reasonable when considering the available options. We won't see any mechanical changes until next xpack so we have to go for the next best thing and fly on sight until next xpack beta comes around.
Putting the entire blame on retribution is BS as well. retribution is fine in itself only the combination of both buffs is retarded. there are 3 Solution to this issue:
- removing dmg component of the procc
- not activating the procc during crusade
- redesigning and balancing our lvl 100 row

Hey now, there's no need to be aggressive.
We can always agree that being mediocre is good, and being below mediocre is even more good.

[Deleted]

Hey now, there's no need to be aggressive.
We can always agree that being mediocre is good, and being below mediocre is even more good.

his style just pisses me of...
on a factual level he might have some points but he just asks for rude words.
Also my mistress punishes me extra hard when I´m impolite, as a good maso... I mean ret I like to be punished for the slightest of infractions like speaking up or not being bottom of the barrel.

[Pocok]

Any BiS list yet? I've managed to collect a list,but not sure if it's any good.

http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items....0.0.0.0.0.567