Are classes being tuned and changed way too much?

[Deleted]

I can't accept the current meta to be the final product, so any change in a better direction is one welcomed by me. I would especially love to see Warlock tweaked.

[Deleted]

Yes, and it's because their internal testing/development team is not big/good enough as well as them not making proper use of the beta/PTR feedback/data they get, because they'd rather use "live data" which just ends up showing the exact same things as beta/PTR.

^ this.
I'm personally quite tired of the hit and miss tuning that happens with the current dev cycle. It's very much "oh let the shit hit the fan on live and we'll see" - and then there's another hit and miss cycle for the next patch.

Often all we get is just having to "re-learn" classes in between patches due to the constant shuffling but having the real core issues going unsolved. It's very tiresome.

Either make the cycles more agile - deploy fixes weekly/daily or get this stuff sorted out in PTR before it escapes to live.

[Sharpbladez]

Doesnt seem like any more than its always been.

Classes are never going to be equal. Its a never ending cycle of trying to keep everything close based on a million variables.

[Stabbyfists]

Oi, as someone who has been playing a Demon Hunter main let me tell you its getting annoying having to completely change my gear focus every raid tier.

Emerald Nightmare we wanted - Crit - Versatility - Haste - Mastery

Then shit got changed and we went into Nighthold

Nighthold we wanted - Crit - Mastery - Haste - Versatility

Now they nerfed Chaos Blade in the way it doesn't benefit from mastery and now we are

Tomb of Sargaras we want - Crit - Haste - Versatility - Mastery

The only solace I take is that Crit is consistent but its annoying having to go farming for Crit Haste gear now.

[kamuimac]

Back in the day (as recent as MOP tbh) I could always pick a class for the X.0 patch and be happy with that decision of the rest of the expansion until they made major changes for the next expansion.

Today I can't really be sure if my pick is going to last until the next patch until changes make me have to reconsider, I personally find it exhausting and demotivating not feeling like "this is my main and I'm gonna work on it for the next 2 years".

Should classes and specs be tampered with less over the course of an expansion?

definetly - devs are going batshitcrazy on tuning for 1 reason - mythic crybabies cry about any 1 % delta change in their otuput

blizzard should remove hc and mythic modes and then there would be no tuning problem whatsoever

[Bombademar]

Back in the day (as recent as MOP tbh) I could always pick a class for the X.0 patch and be happy with that decision of the rest of the expansion until they made major changes for the next expansion.

That´s because in MOP classes were fun.

[Arainie]

Are classes being tuned too much? - Subjective question, I think it's okay the way it is.
Are people rerolling fotm too much? - Yes, and fotm rerollers rarely perform better on their fotm chars than on a dedicated main.

I can most certainly understand a reroll if you hate the way your class mechanically plays (loving survival hunter, turns in to melee etc) but I can not understand rerolls motivated by class balance during one single tier unless you are competing for world top 50 kills or play PvP on a highly competitive stage and need to maximize your performance. I play in a guild working on Gul'dan M P3 atm, and rerollers in my guild generally perform significantly worse than those who have stuck to their class for expansions.

[tankbug]

If people get bored of their class they can reroll, the classes shouldn't get bi-yearly revamps to "keep them fresh", there are 36 specs in the game for a reason, if you get bored of one try another, that's more than enough variety...

Tweaking them to perfection and leaving them would be far better for the game's life than bi-yearly revamps that result in trainwreck balance issues like we saw for the first several months of legion... I know more than a few people who straight up quit because blizzard destroyed their favorite specs... Not they got bored of them, but blizzard butchered them and created enough spite to cause players to outright quit instead of try another class, because they were mad at blizzard... No one gets mad at a company when they grow bored of a class after a couple years, they get mad when something they like is mutilated.

Well, I disagree. Keeping them fresh is more important to me than making them perfect. I get bored at the same skills, and same rotations over and over. If that means that spec X will perform 20% than spec y, that doesn't bother me at all. I never picked a class and spec based on the numbers anyway. Players like you might quit over their favorite spec getting mutilated, and players like me might quit because the game feels stale. It doesn't matter what the reason is, just shows that people are different.

[Cwimge]

A million times yes. Every frigging .5 patch classes are getting rakes over the coals and overhauled, sometimes drasticly

[Deleted]

Yes, because they are completely unable to have classes and balancing done properly at the start of expansions. Not even with a ton of data gathered from beta. They keep claiming they have their better tools and ignore the data gathered by players. It sucks to wake up one day and find that your spec now sucks and your itemization is not that good for other specs, and particularly now with the time invested in artifacts.

[Aleksej89]

It is literally impossible to have too much tuning and balancing.

Tuning and balancing can only be a good thing - unless you are one of those players that wants to abuse the overpowered/broken.

A lot of people want to play a certain style but can not do it realistically because it performs or plays like garbage.

[Vaelorian]

I love frequent changes. Keeps my class fresh.

This. But I only accept change for the sake of change per expansion. I don't want to relearn my class again during and expansion. Just +% this and -% that. That is fine. Also don't get why people say main... when they switch it out every expansion. But I am special in that way I guess... been playing the same class/character from launch day with a few alts on the side.

[Deleted]

Remember when in Legion beta, players where worried and complaining that ap and legendaries would have made changinc spec/role a horrible experience, and Blizzard said "NO WORRIES, THIS TIME WON'T MAKE BIG CHANGES OR OVER/UNDERTUNE SPECS DURING THE EXPANSION!!".
Yeah, I remember.

As of now, a lot of specs have undergone a rolleroceaster of changes and the devs seem hell bent to keep doing it. Yes, there are way too much changes and unnecessary tuning going on. I can understand slight revamps for specs at the start of a new expansion to keep them fresh, but not what is happening in Legion.

[Sencha]

Yes definitely. Looks like the game is still in beta.

[Vathir]

Classes are getting completely ''overhauled'' way to much. First MoP, then WoD and now Legion. Whould be nice if they whould stick with one of their choices longer then just one expansion.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Oh my, some of you guys are almost comically naive. The only way for an MMO to stay relevant is to keep feeding people "The New", chaging classes is one of the easiest ways to do so.

[Jademist]

RIP Fists of Fury

But yes I agree to an extent. Some of the changes are good and much needed. Other tuning changes are just unnecessary.

[Schattenlied]

Well, I disagree. Keeping them fresh is more important to me than making them perfect. I get bored at the same skills, and same rotations over and over. If that means that spec X will perform 20% than spec y, that doesn't bother me at all. I never picked a class and spec based on the numbers anyway. Players like you might quit over their favorite spec getting mutilated, and players like me might quit because the game feels stale. It doesn't matter what the reason is, just shows that people are different.

It does matter, people who get bored are much more likely to just try an alt or at least come back after taking a break, people who quit because the company pissed them off are far less likely to come back and give them money later, or buy any other games they make.

- - - Updated - - -

Classes are getting completely ''overhauled'' way to much. First MoP, then WoD and now Legion. Whould be nice if they whould stick with one of their choices longer then just one expansion.

The overhauls started in Cata with Holy Power and the butchering of Ret.

[Mazeari]

Absolutely

[Schattenlied]

Oh my, some of you guys are almost comically naive. The only way for an MMO to stay relevant is to keep feeding people "The New", chaging classes is one of the easiest ways to do so.

Yeah, no, it's not. Content is the easiest way to do that, not taking classes people already enjoy and slaughtering them, potentially angering a large chunk of said class' playerbase... That's a good way to lose customers, not retain them - there are 36 specs in the game for a reason, if someone gets bored of one class/spec they can try another, 36 is more than enough variety.

Blizzard themselves said class balancing is extremely difficult, so no, changing classes is NOT the one the easiest ways to do that, it's one of the most difficult, unless you're happy with them half-assing it and fucking it up.

If they didn't spend resources on revamping classes every expansion that don't need it, and the subsuquent tuning required, they could put all those people on content development, and we would have more content.