Which side is worse.

[Darktbs]

Lots of useless arguments, specially about which race did what.

The Thread is not about which Race is Worse is about which FACTION is worst.So the sins that should be counted are those that were made while each race where in its respective Faction.

"The draenei destroyed countless worlds fleeing from the Legion"-The DRAENEI were not in the Alliance.So it does not count.

"Arthas purged Stratholme"-He was a member of the Alliance.So it counts.

"The Orcs were under the influence of the Legion."-Influence or not, the Horde did it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The Alliance by far.

I was Alliance during MoP release, and I still remember how those fucks ordered the Orcs swimming for safety to be shot down.

[Dispraise]

I mean, the horde pretty much hands down. The Forsaken alone could almost carry it. Have you seen Gerard Abernathy's quotes about his "pet" Theresa?

"So what do you think of my new toy?"
"It was simple once I broke her spirit."
"I managed to discover that certain parts of the brain when removed or stimulated will make the subject much more docile."
"A little torture, a pinch of magic, and an ample helping of invasive surgery. She was conscious, of course."

[Darktbs]

Hitler was a member of the human race... are we to blame? Honest question there and one I think underlines a problem with this line of thinking.

I´m off now, good arguing everyone, was a fun thread if you ask me.

Race =/= Faction.

If we were to count all of the terrible things our human race has done, Hitler and the nazis would shurely be there.But we wouln't blame all of the human race.

The same way, im not blaming all members of either faction.But history its history, regardless of who did what or didn't, it happened under the banner of a faction.

A Us citizen,for example, may not agree or didn't take part in Hiroshima's bombing, but US did it anyway.

[ryanmahaffe]

The horde leader is currently an edgelord whos only real story is that she is edgy and everyone wants to bang her and all the emo players are obsessed with her.

Seriously at Legion launch I head a bunch of "Finally our dark lady finally rules all >"

[FelPlague]

Yes but does that mean every orc alive is to be blamed? Every member of the Horde too? Even blaming every single orc that crossed the portal seems a bit too much if you ask me. Alliance players like to claim how evil the horde is because of what the fel infused orcs did but tbh, thats a hole other group of people.

Again, is the entire human race to be blamed and held in contemp for the acitons of the nazi party? (pick any organization, nation or group of people that has commited an atrocity here, nazis are just a stand in in this case). Im pretty sure most people will say no. But when its the orcs turn then they are ALL fel infused, bloodthirsty kitten killers whithout a single exception.

I hate Gul´dan as much as the next guy but I don´t think treating every Orc in Azeroth as hes equal is correct. The Orcs broke away from the fel influence long ago and the world is better for it.

Still, you have to admit that Blizzard does a great job at toying with each side so that they always have some kind of beef going.

no, but the horde as a whole worked together, they agreed with it, there were the few who did not follow, but they quickly were forced to
btw ive played horde for 8 years so dont try to claim "You only say that cause your alliance"
no, because the nazi party was a small percent of the population
i would sya aobut 90% of the orcs all stormed through that portal, and murdered the draenei

it is more on the level of you trying to say "humans are overall good, that makes the nazi's good right?"

no that is not how it works
we are not saying all orcs

but just because the odd bear will not maul you to death does that mean bears are not all around dangerous?

[Mehrunes]

the horde supported nerzhul though, the alliance did not support arthas once he started his fucked up journey, the alliance did not see him slaughter loderan and go "uhh ok i know thats not cool but i mean, we are still allies right?"

Yup. That part where he himself abandoned the Horde before he went on to do the worst things he's done is all the proof one needs that the Horde supported Ner'zhul.

nerzhul decimated their planet was ruining its lands, sent his men to murder millions of innocent and they are like "ok cool"

Ah, OK. So you don't even differentiate between Ner'zhul and Gul'dan.

except it was the horde, alot of the current members of the horde were in that original horde
hell the fucking orc leader right now was in that war saurfang
he was one of the orcs who ran through the portal to slaughter eveything on the other side and he now leads the orcs

And yet the reason Garrosh was so popular among the Orcs at the start of his reign was because of the young Orcs who didn't remember the wars with humans and grew up in internment camps or later. And the New Horde consists only of a bunch of Orc clans, with others forming their own groups. The most important clan of the New Horde being the Frostwolves that didn't participate in war against humans all that much.

arthas was part of the alliance yes, but once he started doing the fucked up shit he was kicked out
the horde followed their horrible leaders murder millions of innocent and go to another planet to fuck it and its people up, and planned to do it to hundreds of planets

Wat.

[FelPlague]

Hitler was a member of the human race... are we to blame? Honest question there and one I think underlines a problem with this line of thinking.

I´m off now, good arguing everyone, was a fun thread if you ask me.

sto ptrying to do this hitler thing

1. we did not agree with hitler on a majority where the orcs agreed with nerzhul and guldan
2. the amount of nazi's compared to humans was very small, in comparison to the amount of orcs that joined the horde compared to the orcs who said "nah" it was the complete opposite

[Mumba]

Both sides are assholes but there are races among them that aren't.

[FelPlague]

Lots of useless arguments, specially about which race did what.

The Thread is not about which Race is Worse is about which FACTION is worst.So the sins that should be counted are those that were made while each race where in its respective Faction.

"The draenei destroyed countless worlds fleeing from the Legion"-The DRAENEI were not in the Alliance.So it does not count.

"Arthas purged Stratholme"-He was a member of the Alliance.So it counts.

"The Orcs were under the influence of the Legion."-Influence or not, the Horde did it.

i see this purging stratholme alot
that is not a bad thing
it is a morally grey zone

yes it seems evil
but what fucking choice did he have?

Stratholme is not something to be proud of, but it had to be done

[Mehrunes]

also arthas once he went evil no longer had support from his people
guldan and nerzhul had the support of their people till the very end of their lives... even after murdering millions

Yeah. That's why Orgrim used Gul'dan falling into a coma as an opportunity to kill his puppet Warchief, slaughter the Shadow Council and put Gul'dan on a leash. And why Gul'dan eventually defected, taking 2 clans with him. And why Orgrim then sent half of his remaining forces after him, leading to a massacre of Gul'dan loyalists.

i mean when you see pandaria, you see the alliance go there to save varians son
but garrosh and the horde go there to paint the continent red... now does he mean for the horde? or blood, doesent matter

The Alliance races obviously never expanded anywhere ever.

[FelPlague]

Yup. That part where he himself abandoned the Horde before he went on to do the worst things he's done is all the proof one needs that the Horde supported Ner'zhul.




Ah, OK. So you don't even differentiate between Ner'zhul and Gul'dan.




And yet the reason Garrosh was so popular among the Orcs at the start of his reign was because of the young Orcs who didn't remember the wars with humans and grew up in internment camps or later. And the New Horde consists only of a bunch of Orc clans, with others forming their own groups. The most important clan of the New Horde being the Frostwolves that didn't participate in war against humans all that much.




Wat.

where did nerzhul ditch the horde? He betrayed kiljaden, not the horde, that is why kiljaden tortured him.
yes guldan was working nerzhul but they both did it, i was just using nerzhul as the main example
nothing to say on this part
well the alliance did not really exist at this time but i mean, when he purged stratholme his people started to lose faith, when he whent to northrend his forces were called back and when he returned he was all right out made an outlaw, he did not decimate loderan then be told "bad boy, but you are still our ally"
murder millions, i presume the draenei population was in the millions, was it not? i guess maybe thousands then, whatever
yes nerzhul was planning to use his new found powers to teleport his people from planet to planet, go to azeroth and do the same they did to draenor, consume everything, kill everything, then move on

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah. That's why Orgrim used Gul'dan falling into a coma as an opportunity to kill his puppet Warchief, slaughter the Shadow Council and put Gul'dan on a leash. And why Gul'dan eventually defected, taking 2 clans with him. And why Orgrim then sent half of his remaining forces after him, leading in a massacre of Gul'dan loyalists.




The Alliance races obviously never expanded anywhere ever.

ogrim went after guldan not because he hated guldan, but because guldan betrayed him, and ogrims honor forced him to chase after the traitor who ditched his people, he did not send his forces to go after guldan cause "omfg time to kill guldan" but because "omfg guldan and his bros should be here, fucking, go kill them for ditching us"

and yes alliance has expanded but garrosh's first thoguht is "this new continent, idc what is on it, make it fucking red" The alliance did not just show up and start murdering everyone to take over the land, also could you give maybe some examples of the alliance coming in, murdering everything in their path to conquer land like the horde has? (Other then alliance pushing the horde back)

[Jaylock]

The Horde is who I personally believe to be the worst faction.

I would have to agree with this.

The horde are comprised of mostly evil / nefarious races whos sole purpose is to spread destruction, whereas the Alliance are filled with noble races only wanting to preserve their way of life and live at peace. If it wasn't for the horde's constant aggressions, there would be no "faction rivalry" as the world would be at peace.

Lets not forget it was the Orcs who invaded Azeroth.

[Billy Idol]

Horde is the worst. 1st Thrall. 2nd Garrosh. 3rd Voljin 4th Sylvanas. Four leaders in less then 6 years cmon

[Sigxy]

Lots of useless arguments, specially about which race did what.

The Thread is not about which Race is Worse is about which FACTION is worst.So the sins that should be counted are those that were made while each race where in its respective Faction.

"The draenei destroyed countless worlds fleeing from the Legion"-The DRAENEI were not in the Alliance.So it does not count.

"Arthas purged Stratholme"-He was a member of the Alliance.So it counts.

"The Orcs were under the influence of the Legion."-Influence or not, the Horde did it.

I mean, what would you prefer? 1: Kill them while they are still human and before they turn. 2: Leave them be and let them all turn into mindless undead and manage to kill off even more innocent people?

[Mehrunes]

no, because the orcs knew about the demon blood, they knew what was going on, and they did it willingly, that is the difference

Yes, Gul'dan was extremely thorough on the effects like bloodlust or servitude to demons.

I think the modern silverpine questline alone really skews it heavily in the horde direction.

They kill some people, resurrect some people and blackmail Crowley.

If you only consider both factions after Garrosh (who showed the majority of orcs are still willing to commit atrocities and genocide at the drop of the hat), the Horde still end up being worse because of Slyvanas. She tried to enslave a race to keep herself alive while that race currently resurrects people of all factions and races depending on if they deem them worthy or what not.

Not to mention the fact she dooms peoples souls by forcing undeath upon em. If she offered it to dying people as a way to keep somewhat living it wouldn't be so bad but the people she raises dont have a choice in the matter.

Speculation on both counts. We don't know what Sylvanas' plan in Stormheim was specifically and there's no proof that undeath dooms any souls in and on itself. And the people she resurrects do have a choice, it just happens after the resurrection because the corpses aren't exactly talkative and having an undeath agreement card isn't exactly something Azeroth's people have a practice of carrying with themselves, just like they don't have organ donor cards.

[FelPlague]

Yes, Gul'dan was extremely thorough on the effects like bloodlust or servitude to demons.




They kill some people, resurrect some people and blackmail Crowley.




Speculation on bout counts. We don't know what Sylvanas' plan in Stormheim was specifically and there's no proof that undeath dooms any souls in and on itself. And the people she resurrects do have a choice, it just happens after the resurrection because the corpses aren't exactly talkative and having an undeath agreement card isn't exactly something Azeroth's people have a practice of carrying with themselves, just like they don't have organ donor cards.

they didnt know about serving the demons
what they did know is they would use it to slaughter millions of innocent, move onto another planet, and do the same, time and time again

[Sigxy]

Speculation on bout counts. We don't know what Sylvanas' plan in Stormheim was specifically and there's no proof that undeath dooms any souls in and on itself. And the people she resurrects do have a choice, it just happens after the resurrection because the corpses aren't exactly talkative and having an undeath agreement card isn't exactly something Azeroth's people have a practice of carrying with themselves, just like they don't have organ donor cards.

Aaand forcing them to kill off their allies, friends and family in the Plaguelands, THEN give them the choice...!

No, I'm not letting that one part go. ;_: It's a really cruel act to force someone to kill another that they once loved.

[Mehrunes]

Aaand forcing them to kill off their allies, friends and family in the Plaguelands, THEN give them the choice...!

No, I'm not letting that one part go. ;_: It's a really cruel act to force someone to kill another that they once loved.

The only confirmed case of that happening was against truce-breakers that attacked the Forsaken (while disobeying orders from their Alliance commander at that) during a period of respite. Karma bit them in the ass. And they aren't "forced". They are basically feral animals in that state, their nature in that state is inherently violent. They are only manipulated to direct that violence away from the Forsaken onto not-Forsaken. Still shitty, but not as shitty as you make it out to be.

[Darktbs]

I mean, what would you prefer? 1: Kill them while they are still human and before they turn. 2: Leave them be and let them all turn into mindless undead and manage to kill off even more innocent people?

A necessary evil, is still a evil.

I can say it was necessary, but its not something you look back and think proudly of.