Varian's mercy was the cause of Legion's biggest invasion

[StationaryHawk]

the alliance has allowed an invasive alien species to ravage and destroy its territory for multiple generations, if varian wanted to do what IS RIGHT BY HIS PEOPLE and every other native people then he would have exterminated the orcs like the parasites they are.
so yes, he should have let garrosh die along with the rest

instead we get the fantasy version of political cuckoldry

granted we wouldnt have much of a game if they didnt

You mean that politics exist in fantasy universes? Perish the thought. Even Wrathion acknowledged how long and taxing the resulting war would have been.

Varian didn't spare Garrosh out of mercy. He wanted the Alliance to bring Garrosh to justice, as did the Horde. Taran Zhu offered a neutral solution. As the Augest Celestials didn't get the chance to release Garrosh on their own accord, ultimately the blame for his release and Gul'dan's subsequent return falls on Wrathion and Kairoz. It's not like the Legion wouldn't have found another pawn to open the Tomb of Sargeras, however.

[Leyre]

It was the crocodile's fault for not killing varian

[brob]

the alliance has allowed an invasive alien species to ravage and destroy its territory for multiple generations, if varian wanted to do what IS RIGHT BY HIS PEOPLE and every other native people then he would have exterminated the orcs like the parasites they are.
so yes, he should have let garrosh die along with the rest

instead we get the fantasy version of political cuckoldry

granted we wouldnt have much of a game if they didnt

you know dismantling the horde mean. dismantling a federation of factions so they are no longer a threat. they just defeated a guy for doing what you just said they should do

and a complete waste of peasants and cannon fodder

[truckboattruck]

you know dismantling the horde mean. dismantling a federation of factions so they are no longer a threat. they just defeated a guy for doing what you just said they should do

and a complete waste of peasants and cannon fodder

how many times have they"no longer been a threat"

and i didn't say dismantle...i said exterminate
as in make every possible unit of that species not be alive anymore

cancer isn't always malignant, its still not worth the risk of leaving it there

[Marrilaife]

How come no one blames Khadgar who told us (in the first quest in WOD) to free Gul'dan? C'mon... we all know Khadgar is a dreadlord in disguise... Together with panda Nomi they plot a scheme how to burn Azeroth.

P.S. Speaking strictly of Garrosh, his whole plan was about not letting his daddy side with the Legion and and instead grab everything for themselves without owing it to the Legion. He had many flaws but wanting to bring Legion around wasn't one of them.

[Friendlyimmolation]

how many times have they"no longer been a threat"

and i didn't say dismantle...i said exterminate
as in make every possible unit of that species not be alive anymore

cancer isn't always malignant, you still not worth the risk of leaving it in there

Except dismantling the horde would have crippled the Alliance too in this case.

[truckboattruck]

Except dismantling the horde would have crippled the Alliance too in this case.

the alliance has been crippled in various ways since the first day they were invaded

so much so that listing all the ruined territories and peoples would be gratuitous

[Captain Douchebag]

I think the temple was attacked before the verdict was reached, so you can't blame the Celestials for that.

If you can blame Varian for the legion invading, you sure as hell can blame the celestials for holding a meaningless trial of which they had decided the outcome before it even started.

Garrosh being busted out before they had a chance to give their pre-determined verdict, doesn't make the trial any less dumb.

[Zabatakis]

I skipped MOP, can someone give me a quick and dirty what wration did/was up to that is important? I feel like I got filled in on the rest pretty good.

[Deleted]

Sure,... cause Garrosh traveling in time and space was something everyone was expecting, right?

If anything it caused it to speed-along the process; killing Archimonde and Mannoroth in the process...
Just think what would have happened to us had we not done so... Dealing with Kil'Jaeden seems to be work enough... dealing with both, him and Archimonde, would be on a whole other level.

I skipped MOP, can someone give me a quick and dirty what wration did/was up to that is important? I feel like I got filled in on the rest pretty good.

He sat in a tavern for most of the expansion; feeding both sides of the conflict information.
He was pretty much the legendairy quest-chain NPC.

[Lupinemancer]

While I can see what you mean, after all, had Varian not not stopped Thrall, he would have killed Garrosh right then and there, you could also say that Thrall's decision to make Garrosh Warchief in the first place, despite EVERYONE disagreeing, caused Garrosh to go down the path he did.
Ofc, Taran Zhu's decision to hold a court could also be to blame.

[Zabatakis]

Sure,... cause Garrosh traveling in time and space was something everyone was expecting, right?

If anything it caused it to speed-along the process; killing Archimonde and Mannoroth in the process...
Just think what would have happened to us had we not done so... Dealing with Kil'Jaeden seems to be work enough... dealing with both, him and Archimonde, would be on a whole other level.



He sat in a tavern for most of the expansion; feeding both sides of the conflict information.
He was pretty much the legendairy quest-chain NPC.

I ment like did he have a goal or achieve anything thru that

[Deleted]

I ment like did he have a goal or achieve anything thru that

Well he did seem to be eager to make good on what his father had done.
IIRC early on in MoP he was actually fueling the war, wanting to see which side would turn out to be the "better" one.
Later on he turned against Garrosh.

We had to get some artifacts of power for him; one of them being the Thunder kings heart (which he actually ate)...

His agenda was never really clear; but to me he seemed like his main motivation was to become an important player.

[Dellis0991]

The invasion was going to happen anyway, varian's mercy towards garry only speed it up. Allowing garry to die wouldn't change that. Azeroth is the last piece of resistance left...did you think sargera forgot about us?

[OIS]

If you can blame Varian for the legion invading, you sure as hell can blame the celestials for holding a meaningless trial of which they had decided the outcome before it even started.

Garrosh being busted out before they had a chance to give their pre-determined verdict, doesn't make the trial any less dumb.

It all boils down to the fact that War Crimes is an atrocity commited upon Warcraft lore. I hate it with a passion. But facts are facts.

We can take this all the way back to Grommash for not pulling out when he should, however.

[Marrilaife]

I mean Gul'dan was there, suspended helpless in the middle of the room. We could have just run him though or fried him and the portal would have collapsed. The blame for the Legion invasion falls squarely on our character's monumental stupidity.

New Blizzard storytelling, setting players up for failure? First we free Gul'dan, next we're told killing Illidan was a monumental mistake too, what next?

[Friendlyimmolation]

New Blizzard storytelling, setting players up for failure? First we free Gul'dan, next we're told killing Illidan was a monumental mistake too, what next?

"you are mean for not seeing Garrosh's grand design"

[Arrashi]

"you are mean for not seeing Garrosh's grand design"

"Now you see it with my eyes !"

[TickTickTick]

Oh, so we moved on from 'It's all Thrall's fault for letting Garrosh be the warchief' to 'It's all Varian's fault for preventing Thrall from executing Garrosh' ?

Or is it Medivh's fault for enabling the horde's invasion in the first place? Or the player's fault for letting Gul'dan live? For helping Garrosh in Outland?

You cant look at things just like that. We cant forsee the outcome of our actions, only hope for the best to come out of it.

[Zulkhan]

Also the pandaren were the ones who wanted a trial. Varian just wanted Half of Garrosh's corpse or something, idk.

Honestly, if we want to blame pandas (and despite them not possibly knowing such a crazy outcome I would still gladly blame them for nothing but the utter idiocy of the whole trial idea) then we have to blame Varian as well. Varian, rather than pretending to kill Garrosh himself or something along those lines, simply stopped Thrall from doing the obvious right thing by claiming that it wasn't up to Thrall to decide the fitting punishment to inflict on Garrosh. Then pandas came and Varian nodded all satisfied in regards of their dumbfucking idea with Thrall forced on a "oh well, fuck it" kind of reaction.

Uh.... Varian wasn't displaying mercy. He was claiming ownership of Garrosh's execution

Varian wasn't claiming anything, he simply wanted to deny Thrall's own attempt at claiming said ownership. I wouldn't say he wanted to show "mercy" to Garrosh but is obvious that he wasn't determined to kill Garrosh as Thrall was, he wanted to either decide himself a just punishment (which would have required, indeed, a trial) or having a bunch of "neutral" judges doing it (which was better than leaving the decision to the Horde entirely). Taran Zhu came up with an idea which was pretty close to what Varian probably thought and that explains his sort of satisfied nod (the same couldn't be said about Thrall for sure).

cuckoldry

I've read enough.