[Spoilers] KJ fight and Argus speculation

[Tharkkun]

Blizzard would once again be fucking up, just like they did with Archimonde and his cinematic.

Archi was fought inside the twisting nether if you did the fight on Mythic Difficulty which is why he died for good.

[nothingsjim]

Archi was fought inside the twisting nether if you did the fight on Mythic Difficulty which is why he died for good.

That's why he says Blizzard fucking up, the cinematic after beating Archimonde definitely shows him not dying in Twisting Nether, plus, if he dies in Twisting Nether, how could he fling Gul'dan through the Black Gate in Draenor into our reality.

The amount of shit posts arguing about this is high enough, let's not fuel the flame any further.

[Deleted]

Demons in WoW are sad excuses for villains. Do they even know themselves that they are permakilled in nether/high fel ? Why the fuck did Archi think it's a good idea to port a raid group with him to Nether when he was clearly getting beaten? KJ decides it's a great idea too? That's some Diablo3-level demon idiocy... "Ha Ha I will come back unless you kill me in that puddle of fel goo" *walks to said fel goo puddle*.

I wonder how anti-climatic KJ's death will be. Mute the game audio and he does a long sigh and lays down on the ground to rest his eyes like Archimonde.

[anaxie]

Yeah I just said I'd rather not deal with any more "BIG BAD DARK/FEL BADDIES" for an expansion please.

I'm a little bit sick of seeing spaceships and fel/legion structures and mobs. A South Seas expansion with Kul Tiras would be a nice change.


Blizzard is attempting their E-Sports garbage but they have no idea what they are doing. Overwatch is fucking awful to watch as an esport.

HotS will NEVER be an e-sport. I'm a Dota2 player and it's just hilarious watching them try to make an e-sport out of a game that has had almost all of the individual skill sucked out of it.

The Black Empire is varied enough I think if we see N'yolotha it will looks very similar to what a full blown Azjol Nerub raid would of looked like.
Naga has their own majestric Vibe to it, Then you have the infinite Void. We should get plenty of variance and tropical and Nerubian esqu themes moving forward.

And of course the troll raid to end all troll raids in the troll capital of Azeroth. Zandalar.

[Al Gorefiend]

Said it back at Legion's announcement and saying it again.

Killing Sargeras this expansion would be stupid.

[TheFirstOnes]

Said it back at Legion's announcement and saying it again.

Killing Sargeras this expansion would be stupid.

Cmon man, this is Blizzard we're talking about.

Sargeras will fall in this expac, due to Deus Ex Super Saiyan BS....

[FelPlague]

Interesting. If KJ doesnt die before you reach argus would that still count as him dying in the nether? Or would his proximity to Argus count as being fel saturated enough

argus is
the broken shore is a small area, but a planet like argus would count
like the planet of the nathrezim illidan destroyed, the whole planet was like argus, causing them to perma die, so most likely with argus too

[Friendlyimmolation]

argus is
the broken shore is a small area, but a planet like argus would count
like the planet of the nathrezim illidan destroyed, the whole planet was like argus, causing them to perma die, so most likely with argus too

It's more along the lines of Blizzard will probably have you kill KJ when you arive near Argus, which they will later justify that is close enough to Argus to count.

[FelPlague]

It's more along the lines of Blizzard will probably have you kill KJ when you arive near Argus, which they will later justify that is close enough to Argus to count.

i feel like then LFR-heroic will have him die in space, and mythic will have you kill him on argus, both will cause him to perma die, avoiding the archimonde issue

cause really for now archimonde is dead, but from what the cinematic, and ingame show, he is alive for all we know

[purebalance]

if something needs to be in the nether to die, maybe Outland was only 99.9 % in the nether

Except Mardum, while being debatable it is in the nether at this point due to the tearing etc from fel energy, is definitely fel saturated as it was previously so full of fel that it shone in the GDB as a green star. Meanwhile Illidan still tells the PC DH that "oh you're like me you can only die like demons"....

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i feel like then LFR-heroic will have him die in space, and mythic will have you kill him on argus, both will cause him to perma die, avoiding the archimonde issue

cause really for now archimonde is dead, but from what the cinematic, and ingame show, he is alive for all we know

He literally fel'ified the land during the encounter which could easily explain it away.

[Dagoth Ur]

Sargeras dying will only be stupid if they make it stupid TBH.

I don't believe he will die this xpac or that we'll even fight him, but if we do, it won't be stupid unless blizzard fucks it up.

If it is done im hoping they make actual sense of it.

What makes it stupid for me is that we've been waiting for him to step on the scene for like >10 years and then he dies in literally one patch time (if that's how it's gonna go). He was in background long enough, I wanna see him do some stuff.

I think Sargeras can fit into story with waking up Azeroth and Voidlords pretty well.
You don't need to kill Sargeras to dismantle Burning Legion as organized force, destroying Argus and chain of command is probably enough for demons to go berserk again.

So I agree with you that maybe we won't fight him in regular boss fight way!

[vondevon]

I didn't think about that with Rakeesh, but you're right. Mannoroth also wasn't killed in the twisting nether. If they back pedal to just the Nathrezim being able to revive in the twisting nether, I'd be over the moon.

Rakeesh will likely make another debut. I doubt his story is done since they've only begun to flesh our Velen's story.

Also, Mannoroth is probably Goroth- the new Infernal/Pit Lord boss in ToS. Flavor text for the encounter says something about Goroth being a demon who failed one too many times and as punishment was reincarnated into a body of never-ending suffering.

[Adoxe]

KJ doesn't have a death animation tied to his model, his death happens in the cinematic and there will be no body to loot afterwards which means he'll either explode or teleport away, perhaps even killed by Sargeras himself for basically telling him to fuck off in the 7.2 trailer. The "jump" from Nether to Argus will be triggered at the same time as the cinematic so once the cinematic ends you'll be looking at Argus, which means that Illidan/Khadgar/Velen are looking at it too in the cinematic teaser from a while back. Honestly, I have a feeling that this cinematic will be the first time we see Sargeras in WoW in some shape or form.

Amazing find, OP. This is the first time I've seen this animation, I was wondering how the datamined Argus background will come into play.
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Inb4 you guys end up finding the cinematic again, like it was with NH.

The cinematic has been in the game files since 7.2's launch, it's just heavily encrypted and not accessible till the world first KJ kill happens. The NH one was only leaked early because they forgot to encrypt it.

[Jetpistol]

IMO we aren't killing Sargeras anytime soon or probably will not. He is just too big of a lore figure to go down in this expansion alone. We all these hints of Void, something big has to happen to Azeroth or something to make us want to become allies in sense that we are fighting for a similar cause with the Demon Master. Who knows maybe we side with him but he is still trying to corrupt Azeroth slowly in a way that we don't know immediately. They can do so much with Sargeras that if they do this right, it can warrant Warcraft 4.

[vondevon]

IMO we aren't killing Sargeras anytime soon or probably will not. He is just too big of a lore figure to go down in this expansion alone. We all these hints of Void, something big has to happen to Azeroth or something to make us want to become allies in sense that we are fighting for a similar cause with the Demon Master. Who knows maybe we side with him but he is still trying to corrupt Azeroth slowly in a way that we don't know immediately. They can do so much with Sargeras that if they do this right, it can warrant Warcraft 4.

WoW has a history of its more complex villains changing alignment after they are defeated. For example: Elisande did everything she did to protect her people from what seemed an unavoidable fate. Defeat showed her that Azeroth's mortal races aren't bound by fate and time-and-again have done the impossible. Presented a new path to redemption, she chooses to help us.

Maybe Sargeras will have a similar revelation after each of his generals are eliminated and we 'irrelevant dust motes' stand at his doorstep ready to face him. Maybe it'll renew his faith in Life and in Azeroth, and he will help us save the universe from the Void.

Is this story arch really more favorable than one in which we gain the power to stop him? What if players don't directly deliver the killing blow, instead defending/guiding some comparable cosmic power to make the kill? After Blizz denied kills in BT and ICC, players had a fit. Idk which option players would have the lesser fit over.

[Engal]

If we do not kill Sargeras, he'll be abducted by the void Lords and will become the corrupted void titan we will face to avoid the end of Creation.

[Ryon21]

Am I the only one that thinks when we fight against Sargeras/Kil'Jaeden something will happen that makes us stop the fight? Like the Void Lords making their "sitcom" entrance and fu*king everyone up or something?

[Sigxy]

...Maybe Kil'Jaeden doesn't really die off to us players, but he managed to teleport to Argus while heavily wounded. Knowing he lost and knowing what Sargeras would do to him because of his failure, maybe his only escape is that he pretty much kills himself off permanently before facing his master's wrath?

Or would 'suicide' in-game be too dark for Blizzard?

[Magnagarde]

About this, a single line from Dread Commander Argonoth in Broken Shore Scenario has always intrigued me.

The master will mend my flesh again and again. You have not won. You cannot win. We are endless! We are Legion!

Yup, apparently, they need someone to fix their broken body.

Sargeras has constructed Mardum before to store the souls of demons he defeated, what say he cannot do it again...in Argus?

So my guess is that, once a demon is killed, his/her soul returns to Argus, then Sargeras judge what to do with it. Archimonde, who has proved to be invaluable and only failed at Azeroth a few time? Torture his soul a while as a fitting punishment then resurrect him in his original body. Goroth (The first boss in ToS), who has failed a bit too many time? Resurrect him in a body that fills him with agony. Rakeesh, who exist only to mock Velen? Destroy his soul in Twisting Nether just to rub salt on the wound.

Sargeras would need time to resurrect his minions, so it puts a time limit on our assault on Argus. We need to take Big S down, orelse everything we killed earlier would just come back!

Pretty much sums everything up. It is up to Sargeras which demon will see another life and which won't, granted the demon wasn't killed in the Twisting Nether.

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...Maybe Kil'Jaeden doesn't really die off to us players, but he managed to teleport to Argus while heavily wounded. Knowing he lost and knowing what Sargeras would do to him because of his failure, maybe his only escape is that he pretty much kills himself off permanently before facing his master's wrath?

Or would 'suicide' in-game be too dark for Blizzard?

Now that is a frontier they still have to explore in the game.

[Destriel]

i feel like then LFR-heroic will have him die in space, and mythic will have you kill him on argus, both will cause him to perma die, avoiding the archimonde issue

cause really for now archimonde is dead, but from what the cinematic, and ingame show, he is alive for all we know

The only issue with your statement is that the Archimonde from the cinematic, is not the Archimonde who died at the battle of mount hyjal of current time. It's the Archimonde from the time frame of Warlords of Draenor ... for all we know, the one killed in present Legion time could be coming back.