1. #5081
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    How do you propose they nerf her? If no one could kill Pharah in 4:35 minutes you're going to have to accept that you need to get good.

    But they nerfed Roadhog to appease lower ranked players so Pharah's nerfs are probably inevitable, despite her not being that good at the higher ranks.

    I agree PharMercy is too punishing but just destroying a single hero because of a synergistic duo is not the answer.
    Not strong at higher ranks? What ranks are we talking here? I'm playing at around 3000 and we have to pick 2 hitscans if they have ONE pharah, it's stupid that you need to pick 2 hitscans to deal with her and even then she might be able to wreak havoc on your team because the other team is locking down your hitscans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordin Solus View Post
    i'm gonna throw my hat in the discussion and agree with jessicka that the problem is not the strength of pharah but the player ability. in most of my matches even if its not a phrah but a tracer or genji, players just dont give a flying f and flat out ignore enemies, yes its hard to hit a player that is flying, but if some1 actualy switched to a hero that could hit her or even payed attention to her if they were already S76 or mcree, you wouldnt hear so many complain that is "OP"
    S76 or McCree are at best mediocre alone vs pharah, you need both of them to even have a shot at killing pharahs at the rating I'm at. They just hit 2 shots and soldier or mccree is dead before they can kill her. She flies too high to reliably hit her with soldier due to bloom and then factor in the damage falloff.
    Last edited by Freighter; 2017-06-16 at 02:22 AM.

  2. #5082
    Pandaren Monk ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    The problem isn't that there aren't heroes that can shoot back, its that there aren't ANY
    heroes that can reliably shoot back at her without her blowing them the fuck up.

  3. #5083
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    The problem isn't that there aren't heroes that can shoot back, its that there aren't ANY
    heroes that can reliably shoot back at her without her blowing them the fuck up.
    Widowmaker is such hero.

  4. #5084
    Pharah Mercy is a skillcheck, similar to a Soldier 76 standing on a healing pack. Either your at the level where people have the accuracy and damage to kill them regardless of the fixed 60 HPS or you don't. Once you reach that cap, it gets a lot easier.

  5. #5085
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    Not strong at higher ranks? What ranks are we talking here? I'm playing at around 3000 and we have to pick 2 hitscans if they have ONE pharah, it's stupid that you need to pick 2 hitscans to deal with her and even then she might be able to wreak havoc on your team because the other team is locking down your hitscans.

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    S76 or McCree are at best mediocre alone vs pharah, you need both of them to even have a shot at killing pharahs at the rating I'm at. They just hit 2 shots and soldier or mccree is dead before they can kill her. She flies too high to reliably hit her with soldier due to bloom and then factor in the damage falloff.
    Honestly it's a bad idea to lock 2 hitscans just to deal with Pharah, if those 2 players don't usually play hitscans. Soldier alone can not kill her, no, but he can keep her out of the quite a lot, while your team can wreck rest of the enemy team. I think a single Widowmaker is a way better choice than going both Soldier + McCree just for Pharah. Just having Widowmaker in the team can usually scare Pharah pretty badly to stay out of clear skies.

    What also happens a lot on higher ranks is that people actually more or less just ignore Pharah (as in picks) and just go with something divey like Lucio, Zen, Tracer, Genji, Dva, Monkey. You can quite easily destroy the rest of the enemy team 6v4 on ground while Pharah (and usually Mercy) are flying somewhere above. Dealing with them afterwards is not that hard anymore. Of course that requires good positioning and constant movement etc. so that Pharah can't just wreck you before fight even starts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Had 4:35 to touch a point and NO ONE could kill Pharah. Pocketed by a Mercy of course.

    Nerfs. This character needs them like yesterday.
    If nobody in your team could kill Pharah once in 4:35, sounds a lot more like team issue than Pharah issue. One good trick is to position yourselves so that she can't just freely nuke you from afar but actually have to get closer. A lot easier to deal with her then.

  6. #5086
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask View Post
    I honestly don't see any problem with Pharah at all. People say she rarely gets played in the competitive scene, and I play in the low tier shit scene. So where is she such an issue?
    That was true in the past but AFAIK she is one of the top DPS picks right now in Comp.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    According to some people, its best to just ignore her. I don't think that's at all feasible, but that's some other people.
    To be fair, I think there is a big misconception about this "strategy." The people that mean ignore her don't literally mean ignore her. It's a bit of a hyperbolic expression. They mean, like, don't build your plan around "kill the Pharah." Making the strategy to focus her is not always the best plan, especially when she is pocketed by a Mercy can make her very difficult to frag unless your DPS have great aim and/or Discord.

    Sometimes the better strategy for Pharah is to just make her less effective. You can do this in a lot of ways, like forcing her into close quarters by moving teamfights into buildings (that also makes her easier to kill). Focusing down her team so she has no support can also seriously castrate her effectiveness.

    So you're not literally ignoring her to do her own thing, you're creating a situation where she is not worth focusing.

    I'm not saying this plan is always easy to execute -- especially for lower ranked or less organised teams -- and how well it workd depends on the map and other factors, but I think those people have a legitimate point that too many players get hung up on killing the pharah and end up building a whole comp around trying to eliminate her when you can potentially deal with her in other ways.
    Last edited by Tziva; 2017-06-16 at 05:00 AM.


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  7. #5087
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    To be fair, I think there is a big misconception about this "strategy." The people that mean ignore her don't literally mean ignore her. It's a bit of a hyperbolic expression. They mean, like, don't build your plan around "kill the Pharah." Making the strategy to focus her is not always the best plan, especially when she is pocketed by a Mercy can make her very difficult to frag unless your DPS have great aim and/or Discord.

    Sometimes the better strategy for Pharah is to just make her less effective. You can do this in a lot of ways, like forcing her into close quarters by moving teamfights into buildings (that also makes her easier to kill). Focusing down her team so she has no support can also seriously castrate her effectiveness.

    So you're not literally ignoring her to do her own thing, you're creating a situation where she is not worth focusing.

    I'm not saying this plan is always easy to execute -- especially for lower ranked or less organised teams -- and how well it workd depends on the map and other factors, but I think those people have a legitimate point that too many players get hung up on killing the pharah and end up building a whole comp around trying to eliminate her when you can potentially deal with her in other ways.
    Yeah, the "ignore the Pharah" thing actually involves being REALLY aware of the Pharah.

    You just stop trying to KILL her. You kill everyone else, you make use of cover to stay out of her LOS, you use defensive tools like D.va's screen and shields to hold the point. If she drops down close enough to contest, she's close enough for any of you to kill her.

    It's about making HER come to YOU. But to pull it off, you need to be controlling the teamfights on the ground, and keeping aware of where Pharah is in the air.


  8. #5088
    Quote Originally Posted by Janz View Post
    Widowmaker is such hero.
    If you can headshot every shot, yes. Otherwise, no. If pharah sees you while you're zoomed in and you don't headshot her, you're the dead one, not her.

  9. #5089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    If you can headshot every shot, yes. Otherwise, no. If pharah sees you while you're zoomed in and you don't headshot her, you're the dead one, not her.
    Sure, if Pharah could just do a 180 and instantly shoot 2 direct hit rockets from other side of the map. It doesn't work like that.

  10. #5090
    Quote Originally Posted by Janz View Post
    Sure, if Pharah could just do a 180 and instantly shoot 2 direct hit rockets from other side of the map. It doesn't work like that.
    As far as I know there's no map in the game that looks like this:



    Where widow can shoot from the other side of the map.

  11. #5091
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    As far as I know there's no map in the game that looks like this:



    Where widow can shoot from the other side of the map.
    Kinda like not every Widow just sits right next to Pharah and stops playing after missing one shot.

  12. #5092
    What does blizzard base MMR off of for placement matches? I'm a little confused about my placement this season.

    I won the first 4, lost 2, then won the next 4 and got placed at 1993. I was avging 2.1 gold medals for all my placements, doing top dps and kills every time, and finished placement with a 6.47 K-D ratio. I'm now at 14-2 W-L and bumped up to 2200.

    I would have thought that this time around I could finally place higher and it'd be worth giving a shit about ranked games because I wouldn't find myself on a team that insisted on the old hanzo widowmaker wombo combo, but here I am ranked pretty low again, finding myself in the shitshow of ranked with terrible picks all around.

    What do I need to focus on for next season so I can break out of this bracket?

    Edit: to the point of this thread, my games are going well mostly, but I'm confused and annoyed about placement

  13. #5093
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Placement is based off performance on your heroes compared to others who played those heroes, and then knocks a bit off so you can "feel good" and climb for a bit. Basically has nothing to do with win/loss or performance compared to others in your match.

  14. #5094
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killface1 View Post

    I won the first 4, lost 2, then won the next 4 and got placed at 1993. I was avging 2.1 gold medals for all my placements, doing top dps and kills every time, and finished placement with a 6.47 K-D ratio. I'm now at 14-2 W-L and bumped up to 2200.
    Medals just make you feel good and your K/D is effectively meaningless (generally speaking). Were you on fire for a significant portion of the match? That is a far better indicator that the game considers you to be actually contributing than most things.

    You want to get out of that bracket next season? Bust your ass this season and get out of it now, because next season your base SR is heavily weighted by your current SR and only minimally affected by your placement matches.

  15. #5095
    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    Not strong at higher ranks? What ranks are we talking here? I'm playing at around 3000 and we have to pick 2 hitscans if they have ONE pharah, it's stupid that you need to pick 2 hitscans to deal with her and even then she might be able to wreak havoc on your team because the other team is locking down your hitscans.

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    S76 or McCree are at best mediocre alone vs pharah, you need both of them to even have a shot at killing pharahs at the rating I'm at. They just hit 2 shots and soldier or mccree is dead before they can kill her. She flies too high to reliably hit her with soldier due to bloom and then factor in the damage falloff.
    Her pickrate drops pretty drastically in Masters and GM, not that she's nonexistant here but it's very low, I assume this is because people can aim and Dva is in so many games, and players here like parroting professional comps in which PharMercy has about a 20-25% pickrate so that probably influences it too.

    I've said this before but Dva + hitscan is the best answer to PharMercy by far, if you have a Zenyatta it's even better and he's super meta right now too.
    Last edited by Woobels; 2017-06-16 at 03:54 PM.

  16. #5096
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    then knocks a bit off so you can "feel good" and climb for a bit.
    A lot of people keep repeating this as if it was confirmed truth and I'm pretty sure I started it with this post... but I don't know that this is true.

    My theory -- just based on the fact that most people I know placed a little lower than last season ended -- was just that if the system has some wiggle range for estimated placement ("estimated 2600 to 2800"), it would go with the lower side of the range rather than high just because it does feel better to climb than fall. I can't imagine placements algorithms are so perfect that Blizzard gets a precise SR with a 100% confidence level out of them for everyone, and it made sense, based on Blizzard's past philosophies for releasing things in a state where later tuning will feel better for playerbase and on my anecdotal experience here and with friends on where people placed.

    I wasn't trying to say that Overwatch intentionally shaves a bunch of points off of your SR just for a morale boost of winning a bit after, and I'm not sure if that is the case.


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  17. #5097
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    A lot of people keep repeating this as if it was confirmed truth and I'm pretty sure I started it with this post... but I don't know that this is true.

    My theory -- just based on the fact that most people I know placed a little lower than last season ended -- was just that if the system has some wiggle range for estimated placement ("estimated 2600 to 2800"), it would go with the lower side of the range rather than high just because it does feel better to climb than fall. I can't imagine placements algorithms are so perfect that Blizzard gets a precise SR with a 100% confidence level out of them for everyone, and it made sense, based on Blizzard's past philosophies for releasing things in a state where later tuning will feel better for playerbase and on my anecdotal experience here and with friends on where people placed.

    I wasn't trying to say that Overwatch intentionally shaves a bunch of points off of your SR just for a morale boost of winning a bit after, and I'm not sure if that is the case.
    It was actually stated in a blue post about how it works, that it intentionally puts you a bit low to try to reduce the risk of dumping you into a losing streak. So, actually I guess less of a 'feels good for climbing' and more of a 'less chance of something going horribly wrong and it feeling very bad'.

  18. #5098
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It was actually stated in a blue post about how it works, that it intentionally puts you a bit low to try to reduce the risk of dumping you into a losing streak. So, actually I guess less of a 'feels good for climbing' and more of a 'less chance of something going horribly wrong and it feeling very bad'.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    As we mentioned last season, we do lower your SR a bit initially but you also gain that SR back as you play. We're trying to provide players with a positive initial experience of gaining SR at the beginning of a season without the matchmaking chaos of a more complete reset.
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...3625906#post-5
    For the record.


  19. #5099
    Pandaren Monk ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    So far I'm 121 games into the current season with 67 losses and 51 wins.
    By far my worst season yet with a 16 game difference between my W/L.

    Its nice having such dumb fuckers in your team who pick characters that
    are all easily countered by say, Winston for example, but then says that
    said characters counter him. Seriously, the MM has been fucking me over
    left and right to the point where I'm almost believing that its on purpose.

    Getting to Diamond was already impossible, but now I'm struggling to get
    into fucking Platinum (which I had not too much trouble getting to prior
    seasons before this one).

  20. #5100
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