Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[infinitemeridian]

I haven't been paying as much attention as I should have through the ptr... Icy veins lists roll for 2 or TB. Is this the consensus on the forum as well? I did heroic krosus last night and the feelcraft was that it was meh. How much lower percentage is 2 buffs vs last patch?

You don't reroll unless:

1) Single buff is Grand Melee
2) You have 2 and one is Grand Melee, but ONLY if AR is active (To benefit from loaded dice)

[phoenixs4r]

Thanks! 10char

[Hofazius]

Just wanted to be sure: the announced 80% 19% 1% chances for RTB seem to be right:

Overall Rolls: 13846
Single streak record: 37

Individual chances:
Shark Infested Waters: 2881 (20.81%)
True Bearing: 2912 (21.03%)
Jolly Roger: 2816 (20.34%)
Broadsides: 2861 (20.66%)
Buried Treasure: 2823 (20.39%)
Grand Melee: 2936 (21.2%)

Chances for number of buffs:
1 Buff: 10928 (78.93%)
2 Buff: 2763 (19.96%)
5 Buff: 155 (1.12%)

Streak ends at:
1 rolls: 624 (21.38%)
2 rolls: 485 (16.62%)
3 rolls: 375 (12.85%)
4 rolls: 307 (10.52%)
5 rolls: 228 (7.81%)
6 rolls: 176 (6.03%)
7 rolls: 152 (5.21%)
8 rolls: 130 (4.46%)
9 rolls: 96 (3.29%)
10 rolls: 83 (2.84%)
11 rolls: 50 (1.71%)
12 rolls: 43 (1.47%)
13 rolls: 36 (1.23%)
14 rolls: 28 (0.96%)
15 rolls: 21 (0.72%)
16 rolls: 16 (0.55%)
17 rolls: 14 (0.48%)
18 rolls: 8 (0.27%)
19 rolls: 8 (0.27%)
20 rolls: 10 (0.34%)
21 rolls: 10 (0.34%)
22 rolls: 2 (0.07%)
23 rolls: 5 (0.17%)
24 rolls: 4 (0.14%)
25 rolls: 1 (0.03%)
26 rolls: 1 (0.03%)
27 rolls: 1 (0.03%)
28 rolls: 1 (0.03%)
29 rolls: 0 (0%)
30 rolls: 0 (0%)
31 rolls: 1 (0.03%)
32 rolls: 1 (0.03%)
33 rolls: 0 (0%)
34 rolls: 0 (0%)
35 rolls: 0 (0%)
36 rolls: 0 (0%)
37 rolls: 1 (0.03%)

This was done without using Adrenaline Rush (so no Loaded Dice).
We can be glad that loaded dice exists, otherwise we would be stuck with huge single buff roll streaks.
So we've got a roughly 20% chance to get the buff we want, with Loaded Dice taken into account this should go up to something like 23-25% (depends on gear). It's still possible to roll like 30 times and not get True Bearing.

[Xanatu]

Just wanted to be sure: the announced 80% 19% 1% chances for RTB seem to be right:

Overall Rolls: 3607
Single streak record: 37

Individual chances:
Shark Infested Waters: 752 (20.85%)
True Bearing: 742 (20.57%)
Jolly Roger: 727 (20.16%)
Broadsides: 781 (21.65%)
Buried Treasure: 724 (20.07%)
Grand Melee: 757 (20.99%)

Chances for number of buffs:
1 Buff: 2860 (79.29%)
2 Buff: 704 (19.52%)
5 Buff: 43 (1.19%)

Streak ends at:
1 rolls: 164 (21.95%)
2 rolls: 131 (17.54%)
3 rolls: 84 (11.24%)
4 rolls: 72 (9.64%)
5 rolls: 55 (7.36%)
6 rolls: 47 (6.29%)
7 rolls: 43 (5.76%)
8 rolls: 30 (4.02%)
9 rolls: 29 (3.88%)
10 rolls: 17 (2.28%)
11 rolls: 20 (2.68%)
12 rolls: 12 (1.61%)
13 rolls: 10 (1.34%)
14 rolls: 6 (0.8%)
15 rolls: 3 (0.4%)
16 rolls: 0 (0%)
17 rolls: 8 (1.07%)
18 rolls: 2 (0.27%)
19 rolls: 3 (0.4%)
20 rolls: 4 (0.54%)
21 rolls: 2 (0.27%)
22 rolls: 0 (0%)
23 rolls: 1 (0.13%)
24 rolls: 1 (0.13%)
25 rolls: 0 (0%)
26 rolls: 1 (0.13%)
27 rolls: 1 (0.13%)
28 rolls: 0 (0%)
29 rolls: 0 (0%)
30 rolls: 0 (0%)
31 rolls: 0 (0%)
32 rolls: 0 (0%)
33 rolls: 0 (0%)
34 rolls: 0 (0%)
35 rolls: 0 (0%)
36 rolls: 0 (0%)
37 rolls: 1 (0.13%)

This was done without using Adrenaline Rush (so no Loaded Dice).
We can be glad that loaded dice exists, otherwise we would be stuck with huge single buff roll streaks.
So we've got a roughly 20% chance to get the buff we want, with Loaded Dice taken into account this should go up to something like 23-25% (depends on gear). It's still possible to roll like 30 times and not get True Bearing.

We don't need to roll for TB anymore so that's really not a problem. They actually kind of balanced it finally.

[Deleted]

what's the general consensus - is Outlaw going to be viable for raiding this patch?
My 52 traits sin with 908 sims 150k higher than 57 traits outlaw with 914

[Hofazius]

We don't need to roll for TB anymore so that's really not a problem. They actually kind of balanced it finally.

Can't believe that. I want to see how that works out :-)
The problem I see without the need to reroll is that it gets a lot less interesting. Then it's another button you press once to get a buff up. It's like SND then with a slightly different outcome each time. And nerfing a full roll to 1% just makes it more luck dependant.

[MaryJay]

- - - Updated - - -

Can't believe that. I want to see how that works out :-)
The problem I see without the need to reroll is that it gets a lot less interesting. Then it's another button you press once to get a buff up. It's like SND then with a slightly different outcome each time. And nerfing a full roll to 1% just makes it more luck dependant.

It feels a bit empty at the start but you get used to it. Before we had TB 100% uptime now its 2 various buffs all the time which constantly adds some variations to the rotation flow.

- - - Updated - - -

what's the general consensus - is Outlaw going to be viable for raiding this patch?
My 52 traits sin with 908 sims 150k higher than 57 traits outlaw with 914

It was viable in this patch aswell and gonna be viable too.
Also how do you sim without official simc 7.25 version?

[Deleted]

I got AMR sub and it seems consistent with my dummy numbers.

[edited: i am dum]

[Deleted]

I got AMR sub and it seems consistent with my dummy numbers.

By the way SND simed higher than RTB for me. Going to be fun to have our final talent affecting RTB when we dont actually have RTB.

It does, it increases the effect bij 30%, resulting in a 162% atk speed 19% energy regen slice and dice

[Deleted]

what's the general consensus - is Outlaw going to be viable for raiding this patch?
My 52 traits sin with 908 sims 150k higher than 57 traits outlaw with 914

You´re simming that very wrong somewhere.

[Deleted]

Can't say I have tested it extensively but after a few 5 min tests on the dummy, rtb and SnD are about equal. However, EVERY try with SnD my frond trinket end up doing 18-20% of my damage, which is strange for such an rng trinket.

[Tereskal]

Sounds like your dummy sims aren't running long enough. I've been SnD since EN, and got frond like my 3rd week. Not that its bad, but its typically around 6% of my total damage.

[Deleted]

I have alot of Of The Quickblade Vers/Crit gear that was upgraded to 875 ilvl... it has worked fine for me entirety of the expansion doing 2,2 mil Run Troughs with DfA... it was a nice combo. But since patch it looks like stat weights have moved a little bit, with 7.2.5 I noticed Pawn recommending Haste above Vers. I have a feeling I know why, perhaps because we got Restless Blades back again? More haste also basicly means lower cooldowns...
I keep seeing more and more Outlaw rogues stacking Haste suddenly. Now before I make decision where to spend all my obliterum and blood of sargeras on, I wanted to be sure wheter its Haste or Vers.

[Nekroman]

If you have mantle crit is near worthless. Simcraft wasnt simming haste correctly all xpac until like a mobth ago. If you sim haste>vers you probably just are a bit low on haste and vers should pick back up when you get a bit more.

[Deleted]

I have alot of Of The Quickblade Vers/Crit gear that was upgraded to 875 ilvl... it has worked fine for me entirety of the expansion doing 2,2 mil Run Troughs with DfA... it was a nice combo. But since patch it looks like stat weights have moved a little bit, with 7.2.5 I noticed Pawn recommending Haste above Vers. I have a feeling I know why, perhaps because we got Restless Blades back again? More haste also basicly means lower cooldowns...
I keep seeing more and more Outlaw rogues stacking Haste suddenly. Now before I make decision where to spend all my obliterum and blood of sargeras on, I wanted to be sure wheter its Haste or Vers.

Why would you trust Pawn pre set stats? Go ahead and simcraft your character with statweights. Then you get accurate results (which you can then import in Pawn). Btw you should use something like 20.000 iterations for more accurate results (the default 10.000 is too low if you want statweights).

There is no general formula for stat weights. It depens on every piece of gear you wear and changes everytime you change something.

[Deleted]

Played with SND yesterday and felt like i have NOTHING to do. I was like.. dunno, "should i watch a movie while pressing 1-2-3?"

Set up TMW to show me CD of vanish, GS and AR and an SND duration. That's it.
(i am using curse with vanish and since vanish have slightly longer CD i dont really need to see curse)

I don't have bracers though. Maybe that would make my life as outlaw more exciting. I am wondering what could potentially differentiate great outlaw from average outlaw player.

[Cyanix]

I am wondering what could potentially differentiate great outlaw from average outlaw player.

RNG.

/10 chars

[Deleted]

RNG.
/10 chars

What kind of RNG? there is no RNG to SND.

[elfporn]

RNG.

/10 chars

There is reportedly less rng to outlaw now than there is (and was previously) to ass. Even when using rtb instead of snd.

They finally got RTB to the point where they wanted it originally - a multifaceted buff that changes playstyle slightly depending on what combination of buffs you get.

[Deleted]

What kind of RNG? there is no RNG to SND.

there is still the usual rng with snd