Why doesn't Bolvar find and recruit Kel'thuzad?

[Wildberry]

Shadow council was the legendary quest from day once and thus the core story focus.

Yeah, no that's not the way it works.

[Varitok]

I want to know what his "Plans" are for Acherus. He said he had plans for it if we died. I am betting that next expansion is gonna involve him/northrend. We'll come back from Argus to find that he made his move with the undead or took over Acherus in our absence.

[SinAscendant]

Shadow council was the focus of the legendary questline from day one. Also we spent a lot of time in shatrath so there is that.

The iron horde was incompetent and was overtaken by the ahadow council after getting effortlessly steamrolled.

You must have not seen the part where Blizzard flat out confirmed that Grommash would be the final boss of the xpac and then changed their mind two patches later.

[anaxie]

Why exactly?
- Bolvar's been getting some great setup.
- He's had more than enough time to gather more forces in Northrend since Wrath. When they have a chance to do a Scourge expansion, it will have been 7 years in the lore.
- The Scourge is likely THE most universaly liked enemy in Warcraft.
- Everyone has been speculating about that since Wrath ended.

The scourge under arthas with his iconic armor and his blade. Bolvar is ot and will never be arthas and his scourge will never be the same caliber as the one ran by Arthas KelThuzad and AnubArak

There is no motivation to want o fight bolvar. He will never come close to arthas legacy. estroying lordaeron and lling terenas, crippling the silver hand and killing Uther, betraying and leaving muridan and his men for dead, dlaughtering his kingdom, slaughting 90% of the high elven population killing anasterian. Defiling the sunwell, destroying dalaran and killing antonidas, goading illidan to take the skull of guldan and banish ticondrius, the merciless culling of stratholme, standing toe to toe with illidan stormrafe and his cohorts, ascending the frozen throne and banishing his own master to take the ower all for himself.

Bolvar has no legacy. No hatred.

Hes not arthas. Hes a fucking nobody

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You must have not seen the part where Blizzard flat out confirmed that Grommash would be the final boss of the xpac and then changed their mind two patches later.

You must of missed the part where guldan was on the cast and you are a moron to think a simple orc warrior coupd headline anything over GulDan

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Yeah, no that's not the way it works.

Oh yes it is. Especially when the focus is one of the most notorious villans in the franchise

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In WoD Shattrath was supposed to be a raid and quest hub, but it and its accompanying content was all scrapped and what remained were a handful of leveling quests and a split and retooled Apexis zone. I imagine the transition from Iron Horde to Legion as antagonist forces was originally going to be more gradual or organic, but with the resulting content crunch we got the body-swerve of the Tanaan patch and HFC content.

Which is sad it was only apexis. That was a COOL fuckin city

[Wildberry]

Oh yes it is. Especially when the focus is one of the most notorious villans in the franchise

Yeah, that totally invalidates the launch raids, questing experience, focus of the Garrison Campaign, etc.

Like I said, though, WoD=/=The expansion that many felt assured that Wrathion confirmed.

[anaxie]

Ill concede that bolvar and kt filler xpansion fanfic is more likely then idiots that go hurrrrr Goria expansion! Thank god chronicle vol 2 killled that pitiful speculation

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Yeah, that totally invalidates the launch raids, questing experience, focus of the Garrison Campaign, etc.

Like I said, though, WoD=/=The expansion that many felt assured that Wrathion confirmed.

There is also the point that if left alone in HFC the draenor invasion would of turned into an azeroth invasion because of the dark portals rift.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Before a group of adventurers and Tirion faced Arthas a top of Icecrown... had Arthas ever died? Bolvar was still living... horrible pain but still living. Is a living body one of the requirements to be the Lich King?

He cut out his heart. Arthas was undead by the time we meet him in Northrend.

Edit. Bolvar was reanimated with Dragonfire, hes undead too.

[Wildberry]

There is also the point that if left alone in HFC the draenor invasion would of turned into an azeroth invasion because of the dark portals rift.

I don't disagree, but the majority of pre-Blank Scroll speculation centered on the "guarantee" that the Legion was going to invade Azeroth immediately after Pandaria concluded.

[anaxie]

I don't disagree, but the majority of pre-Blank Scroll speculation centered on the "guarantee" that the Legion was going to invade Azeroth immediately after Pandaria concluded.

If the garossh time bungalio didnt happen it would of been. Turns out garrosh let us meet the catalyst guldan.

And frankly thank GOD WoD happened.

Guldan has never gotten to properly shine in the games since he was pre wc3. Now because of WoD we have experienced the entire villan cast of the franchis barring sargeras nzoth and azshara. ut soon.... sooon!

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WoD also taught us an important lesson of just how not reat Grom was. A complete hothead fuckup in MU and AU

[Rafoel]

Yeah, no that's not the way it works.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with anaxie... but yeah, already in starting patch of WoW there were a lot of signs the Legion is going to be ultimate enemy of expansion.

The first and most solid being the available-to-see-at-day-1 monument at your garrison - "Time is a Flat Circle" - featuring battle between Gul'dan and Khadgar. We also knew it was going to be awarded to players that finish the last legendary quest of expansion.

The second being the toy that featured Archimonde talking how Kil'jaeden's prediction of orcs drinking the blood failed and how more direct measures need to be taken.

The third being that Grom would be direct downgrade from Mar'Gok and Blackhand, and never has an idea been presented about how exactly can fight against Grom be even remotely epic enough for a final expansion encounter.

I remember that literally ONLY argument that was thrown around was that "Blizzard said so, so it will happen". As a person who very early came to conclusion of Grom NOT being the final boss - talking to these people felt like arguing with wall.

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Before a group of adventurers and Tirion faced Arthas a top of Icecrown... had Arthas ever died? Bolvar was still living... horrible pain but still living. Is a living body one of the requirements to be the Lich King?

Bolvar wasn't living.... he literally says "the world of the living can no longer come for me".

[Wildberry]

I can't believe I'm agreeing with anaxie... but yeah, already in starting patch of WoW there were a lot of signs the Legion is going to be ultimate enemy of expansion.

I don't disagree with that, I was on that train, too. Pre-cinematic, I was assuming Grom was a red herring and we'd get Mannoroth instead.

My overall point wasn't that the Legion wasn't going to close WoD, but that the "Legion invasion of Azeroth" didn't follow Mists of Pandaria like many assumed had been confirmed by Wrathion.

That, and somehow we got tilted off into irrelevant territory about the overall focus of WoD. My only stance there is at launch, the Iron Horde was the major focus.

If the garossh time bungalio didnt happen it would of been. Turns out garrosh let us meet the catalyst guldan.

And frankly thank GOD WoD happened.

Guldan has never gotten to properly shine in the games since he was pre wc3. Now because of WoD we have experienced the entire villan cast of the franchis barring sargeras nzoth and azshara. ut soon.... sooon!

That's fine, my point was only ever that Legion's concept was assumed by many to be the followup to Pandaria and it really wasn't.

[anaxie]

I don't disagree with that, I was on that train, too. Pre-cinematic, I was assuming Grom was a red herring and we'd get Mannoroth instead.

My overall point wasn't that the Legion wasn't going to close WoD, but that the "Legion invasion of Azeroth" didn't follow Mists of Pandaria like many assumed had been confirmed by Wrathion.

That, and somehow we got tilted off into irrelevant territory about the overall focus of WoD. My only stance there is at launch, the Iron Horde was the major focus.



That's fine, my point was only ever that Legion's concept was assumed by many to be the followup to Pandaria and it really wasn't.

Well unlike me and i assume unlike you. Most people have a poor grasp on the whos who in warcraft.

Moment i saw guldan its was like well fuck theres your ain villan.

[Felrane]

The scourge under arthas with his iconic armor and his blade. Bolvar is ot and will never be arthas and his scourge will never be the same caliber as the one ran by Arthas KelThuzad and AnubArak

There is no motivation to want o fight bolvar. He will never come close to arthas legacy. estroying lordaeron and lling terenas, crippling the silver hand and killing Uther, betraying and leaving muridan and his men for dead, dlaughtering his kingdom, slaughting 90% of the high elven population killing anasterian. Defiling the sunwell, destroying dalaran and killing antonidas, goading illidan to take the skull of guldan and banish ticondrius, the merciless culling of stratholme, standing toe to toe with illidan stormrafe and his cohorts, ascending the frozen throne and banishing his own master to take the ower all for himself.

Bolvar has no legacy. No hatred.

Hes not arthas. Hes a fucking nobody

Its also possible that the Lich King always planned to replace Arthas body. If you read the Arthas book the very first chapter shows the Lich king can see the past, present and future. I like to think the entity known as the Lichking actually broke Bolvar over the year it took us to finally *save* him. Immortal body blessed by lifegiving dragonfire seems better then just a normal one.

As far as having him Return as a villain I could work but I would rather not do a rehashed expo atleast not yet.

[anaxie]

Its also possible that the Lich King always planned to replace Arthas body. If you read the Arthas book the very first chapter shows the Lich king can see the past, present and future. I like to think the entity known as the Lichking actually broke Bolvar over the year it took us to finally *save* him. Immortal body blessed by lifegiving dragonfire seems better then just a normal one.

As far as having him Return as a villain I could work but I would rather not do a rehashed expo atleast not yet.

nerzhuls soul was forcefully banished and sucked into frostmourn by arthas. Source. The novel

He cant see past present and future. He was just laying plans to feign alligence to the legion so he could have opportunities to undermine them. Kelthuzad of course helped this rumor to form the cult of the damned viewing nerzhul as a god when really he was just a wraith given powers and toys by the legion.

See the future
Honestly thats why illidan completely blindsided the lich king and arthas in the frozen throne. If the prison would f been fractured fucking nerzhul he wouldnt of merged with arthas. But it was a good alternative after the throne was fravtured. nfortunately arthas wasnt so easily submissive

[Fawnix]

Maybe he has already done it.

[Zulkhan]

Actually we dont know that one for sure. Setback inc.

Schrödinger's Archimonde is no doubt Kosak's best creation.

[Darktbs]

Part of me wants the good old lich to return...but i have a bad feeling that if he returns right now he will become our Class Hall Champion.

But hey, the Dk campaign is already making us do what Arthas did so its just a matter of time until we use what is left from the Nightwell to ressurect KT.

[gcsmith]

Didn't we get his phylactery and destroy it this time, instead of giving it to a scourge in disguise.

[Wildberry]

Didn't we get his phylactery and destroy it this time, instead of giving it to a scourge in disguise.

See:

Since that would make me Kel'Thuzad in this equation (who has survived two separate Lich Kings), this is acceptable. KT > U (Source)

That is an interesting catch.

We never actually destroyed his phylactery, though.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Because his story is over. Enough of bringing every character back. Kel'thuzad wasn't even that powerful anyways.