World of Casualcraft vs World of Challengecraft

[Baine]

I answered other. I prefer a mix of both...so World of Warcraft. But if I have to choose, I prefer World of Casualcraft.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Leveling was never aimed at anyone but casuals.

There's content for all sorts of players at max level, both instanced and world. However, Legion has posed a challenge to the hardcore scene due to how much TIME investment it requires.

The fact still stands that 99% or so of the playerbase has no interest in challenging content, never had and never will have. Blizzard have quite aptly provided the challenge for those seeking it though.

And if not having a mount until level 40, or quick leveling, is what removes "challenge" from YOUR gameplay, then by all means do the Iron Man for every character you level, coupled with not purchasing riding.

Done. Not that I'd say it would pose a challenge either way, seeing as how leveling content outside of Legion has the same AI it always did.

People proclaiming how they "love a challenge" in this game, rarely actually seek it out. They're all about talk and "but back in MUH DAYS!"-nonsense.

[durrtygoodz]

Your idea of a "challenge" server doesn't sound challenging, just straight up tedious. I'm not saying all of those old Vanilla gameplay concepts are terrible but labelling it as challenging is plain wrong.

[Kokolums]

It doesnt matter if it is casual or challenging because wow is antisocial. Casual antisocial wow is poor. Challenging antisocial wow is poor. This thread reminds me of the fallacy of the false dilemma, where they constantly pick between two choices and never assume the problem could be something else.

It reminds me back in WoD when players said the problem was there was not enough content. I said WRONG the problem is wow is antisocial. Well, now theres PLENTY of content...and sub numbers are about where they were in WoD. It was a waste of time. They couldve created a quarter of the content they did in Legion and gotten the same result.

They still need to eliminate:
LFR
Group finder
Dungeon finder
Sharding
Phasing
Massive antisocial questlines like suramar
Garrisons/order halls

And fix the lfg channel to make it default to ON.

[Bigbazz]

I like a challenge, but I'm not sure this is a challenge so much as it's just a time sink, and a time sink isn't really a challenge.

1. No heirlooms - Obvious choice if this is a levelling thing sure, reduces char power, levelling speed and makes other gearing options relevant again.
2. This only achieves time sink, that's fine and all but it doesn't actually add any challenge if that's what you're going for.
3. No LFD/LFR has a lot of positive effects, but does it add challenge? Not really, I don't get the other elements you have, seems quite random.
4. Reagents - Entirely pointless, adds no challenge. It seems the challenge is "remember to buy them, have bag space).
5. Ammo/Arrows - Alright it's fine from an RP point of view, but it's the same as Reagents.
6. Keys and Attunements - Not really a challenge is it, it's another time sink. At least attunements can be challenging, Doing HC Arca in TBC in blues, ughh.

Honestly you've come up with a load of custom "lets go back to TBC/Vanilla" options with your own twists added, nothing here adds challenge and certainly wouldn't do a damn thing with modern WoW, which would require a low level overhaul for this to be remotely challenging. Maybe you should just go play a Vanilla/TBC private realm or something, seems thats probably the game you want.

[Accendor]

Challenge mode should be standard imo

[Flurryfang]

So it occurred to me recently, a great many things about the game have changed, and the players along with it. I think it is possible to have two distinctive play styles without interfering with one another, keeping it easy for the more casual player, and challenging for the more vested and skilled player. So, here is my idea.

When you create your character, you have two choices (similar to Diablo). You can select either:

Normal mode - You create your character, log in, and play as you did yesterday with no difference to the game whatsoever.

Challenge mode - You create your character, log in, and play with no access to anything, and the rules have changed for you. You now have:

• No heirlooms. All of your XP is normal or rested, and your gear is either crafted , quest reward, or world drop.
• No mounts til 40. Your heirloom bike is gone, and you must now wait til lvl 40 to get your mount. However, you gain access to special mounts based on your selection of Challenge Mode. Each faction has a special mount that requires Challenge mode, and Exalted rep.
• No LFD or LFR access. If you want to Dungeon, or Raid, you do it the old fashioned way. Group up and walk/ride/fly there. Just like mounts, you gain access to a special type of gear. You get to choose the color of the gear for that Dungeon/Raid. Example, you are a Rogue in Molten Core. You can collect the Nightslayer set, but you can also choose whether you want Black with Red/Purple/Blue/Gold. You only get to pick once, and your mog works for all of your other rogues/leather wearers.
• Reagents - You once again have to keep them in your bags. But, in challenge mode, you get double duration on buffs. So Blessing of Kings would last 2 hours instead of one.
• Hunters - You once again use ammo/arrows, but gain access to limited edition bows/guns. You have to feed your pets and train them, but your pets do near double damage, and you can now tame one specialty pet of your choosing. Have a particular thing in mind you always wanted as a hunter pet? Now's your chance.
• Keys and Attunements - You now have to use both for Heroics, but you make more gold as rewards, and no longer have to deal with non-class item drops. Tired of getting plate on your Mage? Not even a concern.

Of course these are just "for instance" options. Not everyone is a fan of how things used to be. That said, the differences would be distinctive and WoW would experience a level of difficulty similar to Diablo. Just a random thought. What are your thoughts on the matter?

** FYI - this is merely a for instance pondering. I am not asking to have the game different, I am merely opening a conversation. Anyone who's only comment is "GTFO" or "Go play something else" should likely just move on since they obviously miss the point of healthy discussion about a game we all likely enjoy just as it is.

I like the idea of having a challenge mode, especially when it comes to leveling.... But i just think that you are really gonna create a better leveling experience by taking away the heirlooms system and removing LFD. This is pretty much because the current leveling experience is pretty bad and by making it slower, you are just gonna experience very long periods of time with no leveling rewards. In the past, you always got a talent or a new spell when you leveled up, but now you might level for 10 lvls and not get anything.

In my opnion, they could maybe introduce a challenge mode, but at the same time introduce alot of new leveling features to support the current leveling system. If that is not done, you are really not creating a better or more challenging leveling experience, just one that takes longer and where some classes are horrible to play, since you have to go back to the city all the time for reagents.

[MoanaLisa]

I like a challenge, but I'm not sure this is a challenge so much as it's just a time sink, and a time sink isn't really a challenge.

There's an interesting discussion to be had around whether or not people would like a slower game instead of the lickety-split sort of leveling we have now. I think I would like that but I'm not convinced that I would be anywhere in the majority on that. Most of the complaints now are of the variety of "I can't finish what I'm doing soon enough" or alternately "It takes too long to get anything done". I'm quite sure that if leveling time were doubled or tripled and loaded up with all sorts of detailed little tasks you would need to do to move along that people would completely freak out.

It sounds fine in concept but the reality is that most of this stuff would slow progression down quite a lot. Harder leveling fights that take much longer with more deaths and running back and the like where getting through a zone would be measured in days instead of hours with a lot of trips to somewhere to buy ammunition or reagents? Not buying that that would be a popular thing. At all.

[Camthur]

Who the heck goes around thinking their game experience would be better if they had to waste bag space on reagents and ammo? For every dude who would enjoy that, you'd be forcing hundreds of people to be inconvenienced.

The game needs to be more accessible to people, not less.

If the game isn't enough grind for you, play an alt. (or 11)

[Deleted]

Don't think slowing down the leveling will make it more fun with the current quest system. It's not very exciting, it doesn't really pull you in so to speak at least not for me. The mobs in the open world aren't mechanically hard, buffing their damage or weakening the players power will only make you eat after every single mob. The leveling experience should be fun and teach the player about the game, not advanced stuff the basics. You can do that without having a new player being butchered by a murloc camp every other hour.

But that would require Blizzard to change the whole leveling process and i doubt they will ever do that.

[Wingspan]

It doesnt matter if it is casual or challenging because wow is antisocial. Casual antisocial wow is poor. Challenging antisocial wow is poor. This thread reminds me of the fallacy of the false dilemma, where they constantly pick between two choices and never assume the problem could be something else.

It reminds me back in WoD when players said the problem was there was not enough content. I said WRONG the problem is wow is antisocial. Well, now theres PLENTY of content...and sub numbers are about where they were in WoD. It was a waste of time. They couldve created a quarter of the content they did in Legion and gotten the same result.

They still need to eliminate:
LFR
Group finder
Dungeon finder
Sharding
Phasing
Massive antisocial questlines like suramar
Garrisons/order halls

And fix the lfg channel to make it default to ON.

This would cause way too much social and way too little actual gaming. If you want the level of social activity and the minimal gaming that would result, I would suggest Facebook.

In all seriousness, social media websites have evolved a TON during the 13 or so year reign of WoW. I know several people personally who have basically "retired" from MMOs that spend hours a day on Facebook, Twitter, and the like. WoW simply cant compete with these (free) social media sites, so there is no reason to even try. Hell, even the WoW developers have pretty much made these sites a second home, so even they are buying into it.

What you suggest, if made mandatory, would pretty much just kill the game for good. A voluntary server or two might go over well, but a universal change would be self-destructive. There is a reason why nearly all MMOs have grouping systems... because they are better to have than not in the modern gaming world.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think enough people would enjoy what you describe to justify the costs of creating it. I would not be against having it as an option... I just don't think it would go over very well in the long run.

Despite all the claims to the contrary, most people prefer easy over challenging for the bulk of their activities.

[roahn the warlock]

Casual = time invested.

I can be a casual who has the skill to beat Mythic Guldan. But only raid one night a week. Get this through your thick heads.

[Kul Tiras]

If people want to play old school masochistic wow why the fuck don't you just skadoodle to the myriad of private servers popping up like mushrooms everywhere?

Hell, if you want real hardcore, just go play EQ1. You lost xp when you died there.

[alany]

None of those things have to do with challenge you could have said Inconveniencecraft...grinding to any extent however i guess can be considered challenging to some who have less time to play but not to everyone so i guess i prefer Casualcraft if i was to look at grinding as a challenge cause thats such a boring way to spend time in a mmorpg where the only challenging part of PvE is getting 19-30 other people who dont suck on the same schedule to kill things on their mains and alts...1400 days played invested into this game since the end of classic / start of bc and i admit to thinking like you at one point but i was so WRONG i regret almost all my time spent on this game cause World of Wastedtimecraft won in the end

[Dartz1979]

Legacy/Pristine server would bring in people to play again but blizzard will most likely not opt to go that route.

[Kul Tiras]

Legacy/Pristine server would bring in people to play again but blizzard will most likely not opt to go that route.

They would stay for a few months at most then get the fuck out when they'd realize that there's literally nothing to do in the game aside from grinding mats just to make enough gold and potions to cover your raid and dungeon consumables, on top of resist gear. And if you're a PVPer, enjoy POM Pyro mages and one shot Rogue specs. Lovely.

[Pull My Finger]

No.

It's super-arbitrary and artifically segregating in a way it can't be good for the game or the community.
Also, just because someone identifies themselves as "more skilled" (these are also people who tend to identify others, for example as "casual"), why would that mean that they would like the proposed ideas?

For example: I'm a very seasoned, skilled player and I wonder why in the world you'd make me run on foot until lv40 or why I would be interested in lame-ass attunements. I don't see how you could successfully define what a "good" player wants. You can't, because these categorisations are bullshit, and people really, really need to get away from that.

[Lightbull]

This gives players a new way of levelling up without impeding on the current levelling system. I like the idea, and I especially like that players are rewarded for doing this content. I think there should also be a reward for reaching level milestones, like an exclusive transmog set at 110 or something.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

It doesnt matter if it is casual or challenging because wow is antisocial. Casual antisocial wow is poor. Challenging antisocial wow is poor. This thread reminds me of the fallacy of the false dilemma, where they constantly pick between two choices and never assume the problem could be something else.

It reminds me back in WoD when players said the problem was there was not enough content. I said WRONG the problem is wow is antisocial. Well, now theres PLENTY of content...and sub numbers are about where they were in WoD. It was a waste of time. They couldve created a quarter of the content they did in Legion and gotten the same result.

They still need to eliminate:
LFR
Group finder
Dungeon finder
Sharding
Phasing
Massive antisocial questlines like suramar
Garrisons/order halls

And fix the lfg channel to make it default to ON.

I'm curious, why do you think Suramar is a bad idea, and how would you have made it better? Require it to be done in a group?
I'm also not convinced that removing group finder tools would improve the game. Why was yelling in LFG for hours better than the current system. Would you really communicate more because of that?
I'm not attempting to antagonise here, I'm a MoP baby trying to understand.

[nekobaka]

I do not think those make the game any more challenging. I would say some make the game more engaging.