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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    I've never seen a participation trophy. The entire narrative is overblown and ridiculous.

  2. #22
    I would have assumed the high school diploma IS the participation trophy.

  3. #23
    In one sense, ranking students is a lot like Gearscore. It can cause friction and stress.

    HOWEVER, the entire point of school is to get educated, and CRITICAL to getting educated is to rank students performance, and it needs to be public so everyone can see its being done fairly and so colleges and business can asses the students.

    The point of WoW is really just to have fun. Gearscore really isn't needed in WoW but a public scoring system is required for schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Here is my opinion on award ceremonies from when I was a kid.

    This is a waste of time and i dont care period about other peoples accomplishments. I hated having to sit for like 2 hours for those end of year awards. Just dumb. I hate graduations for the same reason. I dont care. Waste of time.

    Not once did i feel bad because i didnt get to go on stage. I hated the time where i did have to go onstage for having perfect attendance.
    Its not a waste of time. The point of sending the students who achieved on stage is to have them inspire others to reach those goals. School is about achievement and inspiring achievement is critical. That's why you are sent up there. Your inspiration can help others do better. If everyone just feels embarrassed about the whole thing they are missing the point and hurting everyone's education.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  4. #24
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    My school didn't use class rank, and I'm glad for that. It's needlessly stressful and fosters a competitive environment where raw GPA is the only factor that matters. We forget sometimes that high school is a time for broad development; GPA does not accurately reflect that.

    We did have valedictorians though. And I was hopeful that I wouldn't be it as I hated public speaking. It's a silly tradition, and not particularly useful for anything in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Its not a waste of time. The point of sending the students who achieved on stage is to have them inspire others to reach those goals. School is about achievement and inspiring achievement is critical. That's why you are sent up there. Your inspiration can help others do better. If everyone just feels embarrassed about the whole thing they are missing the point and hurting everyone's education.
    I'd rather teach students to derive motivation from themselves, rather than a carrot on a stick. Inspiration can be great, but the costs are not negligible in this case.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think the problem with valedictorian at many schools is just how arbitrary is seems. It's not like the score is based on an apples-to-apples, this kid outperformed this kid basis, this comes down to arcane calculations based on AP classes, 3-1-3 programs, and various ways of gaming the system to have the highest possible GPA from bonuses.
    This is my biggest complaint.

    At my school, the guy that was Valedictorian did not deserve it. The girl who was Salutatorian should have gotten it instead. Why? She took calculus and politics as college courses offered through concurrent enrollment, as did most of us. The valedictorian did not, because he knew that his GPA would be higher if he took the AP courses instead. Furthermore, she was in the marching band which gave a 4 instead of 5 for grade points, further reducing her average.

    She got punished for doing more and doing it better than the valedictorian. It was some real bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    My school didn't use class rank, and I'm glad for that. It's needlessly stressful and fosters a competitive environment where raw GPA is the only factor that matters. We forget sometimes that high school is a time for broad development; GPA does not accurately reflect that.

    We did have valedictorians though. And I was hopeful that I wouldn't be it as I hated public speaking. It's a silly tradition, and not particularly useful for anything in my opinion.

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    I'd rather teach students to derive motivation from themselves, rather than a carrot on a stick. Inspiration can be great, but the costs are not negligible in this case.
    Uh no. The entire point is to get the children ready for adult life. This is not the time to worry they might feel hurt by achievement.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Its not a waste of time. The point of sending the students who achieved on stage is to have them inspire others to reach those goals. School is about achievement and inspiring achievement is critical. That's why you are sent up there. Your inspiration can help others do better. If everyone just feels embarrassed about the whole thing they are missing the point and hurting everyone's education.
    Pretty shit way to inspire people, I think.

    What inspired me to do my best and graduate with highest honors in college wasn't the fact that I saw some dude give a boring speech on stage. The inspiration came from my own realization that if I wanted to get where I wanted to be, I had to work like hell to get there myself. I have never once been inspired by rankings. It was a total nuisance throughout, since I spent time worrying about relative class rank that could have been better spent learning material better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Yet another part of me tilts to "This kid worked their ass off to get this far, they deserve recognition"
    Not always. Sometimes it's the asshole that games the system and gets it despite achieving less than their peers. And it's typically a hollow victory - when this happens, everyone knows that they don't deserve it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  8. #28
    My sister was valedictorian, I was in the top 10 for my school, both of us were accepted at Ivy League schools (though I ended up not going to an Ivy). I think the point of the valedictorian is just to reward an honor to the person who worked the hardest. Arguments of how they weight these GPAs aside, it's important to have competition, because the people who say they don't matter are in for a rude awakening in the real world. Being in the top 10 (or just outside of it) didn't really matter because you can already translate it to a top% number. There were 300 kids in my class, I was top 10, that means I was in the top 3% of my class. A 97th percentile. These are all metrics we already use.

    In college, and in law school, we had both Latin honors AND a valedictorian. If you think the real world isn't going to rank you based on how well you do, you work in menial labor. Even places like Walmart have Employee of the Month which comes with bonuses, etc.

    Edit: What I'm okay with is not having the valedictorian/salutatorian gives speeches. Getting the top GPA doesn't mean you know how to speak publicly, or even inspire people. In many cases, I think it's probably an unhealthy goal to achieve in certain environments. My sister was also student body president and ran varsity track, but her 2nd was socially inept and his speech was painful. Give them an award, a plaque or something, and let them sit down, be humble.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2017-06-18 at 07:22 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    This is my biggest complaint.

    At my school, the guy that was Valedictorian did not deserve it. The girl who was Salutatorian should have gotten it instead. Why? She took calculus and politics as college courses offered through concurrent enrollment, as did most of us. The valedictorian did not, because he knew that his GPA would be higher if he took the AP courses instead. Furthermore, she was in the marching band which gave a 4 instead of 5 for grade points, further reducing her average.

    She got punished for doing more and doing it better than the valedictorian. It was some real bullshit.
    This was many years ago... so ymmv.

    Valedictorian meant, at my school, more than GPA. There were plenty with perfect GPA, even those taking concurrent college courses. It was about leadership. The valedictorian was more-or-less a leader in some capacity among the student body. The award was recognition for that, as well as academics.

    But in any case, it's pretty much only useful as a line item on a resume or application for the first year or so out of HS. lol.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Dome Fossil View Post
    Ah, good; then we're one step closer to Harrison Bergeron being a reality. If I act fast, I could put a good resume together to become the first Handicapper General.
    Underappreciated comment of the day.

    Did you see the movie '2081'? They nailed it.

  11. #31
    meh I don't think of it one way or the other, but then again I graduated in the lower 4th of my class so what do I care.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    This was many years ago... so ymmv.

    Valedictorian meant, at my school, more than GPA. There were plenty with perfect GPA, even those taking concurrent college courses. It was about leadership. The valedictorian was more-or-less a leader in some capacity among the student body. The award was recognition for that, as well as academics.

    But in any case, it's pretty much only useful as a line item on a resume or application for the first year or so out of HS. lol.
    That sounds like a better system. Ours was just GPA. Which is stupid, given the rather arbitrary rules for GPA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  13. #33
    Banned want my Slimjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukk View Post
    That's fucking lazy.

    Definition
    a student, typically having the highest academic achievements of the class, who delivers the valedictory at a graduation ceremony.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    That sounds like a better system. Ours was just GPA. Which is stupid, given the rather arbitrary rules for GPA.
    GPA is silly anyway. I had a class in HS where the teacher graded our notes. It was a European History class. I didn't need notes. lol.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Everyone arguing against it just says, "hurrrr participation trophies" as though that's actually an argument.
    It's because they don't actually know wtf they're talking about or even what the topic is. And most likely read the title and then commented.

  16. #36
    this is the same fucking reason we dont have personal server firsts anymore in wow.

  17. #37
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Uh no. The entire point is to get the children ready for adult life. This is not the time to worry they might feel hurt by achievement.
    Nothing in my post even alluded to worrying about hurt feelings. That's not my concern at all.

    As I said, and as you would know if you actually read my post, it's not a good method of motivation, it's needlessly competitive, and it fails to account for other areas of success.

  18. #38
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    rofl

    The primary reason that they are stopping to crown valedictorians is centered around a growing problem...helicopter parents.

    The fighting among students and parents is going overboard. Seriously, the number and noise of helicopter parents is growing every year. It's to the point that our local band teacher had to record his students and send to a 3rd party to justify his decision because several parents were screaming that their kids were the ones that should be in 1st chair, not the ones the band teacher chose (the 3rd party agreed with the band teacher's original decisions).

  19. #39
    I attended neither my high school nor university graduation. fuck that. waste of time and money. especially I am glad I didn't join the university one. The graduation dinner in the evening tho... 10/10 I would go again.

  20. #40
    I don't know what it was like for american schools but here you just had to write and essay, have two teachers sponsor you and then the faculty would decide. It was completely subjective. The person that won wasn't even in the top 10 in terms of grades.

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