How come no one ever mentions Russophobia?

[Forogil]

Everyday I hear the hate from the democrat party saying "The Russians hacked the election..." Everyday, multiple democrats and media types say it.

Very few listen to them. Most hear it from NSA and CIA and similar agencies; that have concluded that Russians state-sponsored hacker groups hacked DNC computer and used information to influence the election, and tried to hack election system in the US and other countries.

Even though top Dems have admitted there is no evidence: (This is a link to a video of her actually admitting there is no evidence)

That she currently is not aware of any evidence for collusion. The hacking part is only part of that - and I would hope the US had government agencies - not political parties investigating crimes.

[Deleted]

Russophobia:

<Me> I am a russophobiac!
<Friend> Moscow!
<Me> Aaah!
<Me> Stop it!
<Friend> VODKA GORBATCHEW!
<Me> AAAAAAAAH!
<Me> Hey!
<Friend> Borsht.
<Me> Eeeeeh!
/me died
Friend happy.

Story over.

/thread, as Russophobia got mentioned

[Elim Garak]

Not liking people is one thing, but acting accordingly is often discrimination. Not admitting that is a sign of weakness.

Acting is not discrimination either. It's like you have problems with dealing with words.
If you don't like gays and then kill one - that's not discrimination. That's just murder.
But if you are an employer who employs only heterosexuals no matter the credentials - that's discrimination. You must have the power over other people to discriminate them.

You could comment about that? Isn't it the judge or police that determine whether it is a crime and fine you? Wasn't that how the law works?

Traffic regulations are not laws. There's no judge involved, well, unless you want to challenge the fine. As if you don't know how traffic regulations work.
You can of course commit a crime while driving - then you will meet the judge of course.

But no more of this.

Considering how you don't know what you are talkign about - that's a good tactic.

[Berndorf]

I can tell you don't, because the answer was given to you in the sentence just before that statement.

Don't worry, I'll keep this post to two sentences--probably one too many, however.

ok, have a nice day arguing with all of your political enemies. This is why I generally don't frequent political threads much. Most of the people who post on them just are looking to group everyone they disagree with into their preset enemy groups and spread as much hate and strawman bs as they possibly can while thinking they are accomplishing something.

[Holofernes]

For the last year everything Russian has been considered evil and awful. We have Russian-American Citizens in this country also, so is russophobia hate speech?.

correct this to "for the last 2000 years". Everything evil in this world came from the east. the skythes, the awares, the huns, the mongols, the turks
, the russians. The whole european History is about "fighting the evil from asia". So its not russian per se, its just against everything eastern that threatens civilization. Only since 800 years ago , this role is fulfilled by the eastern nomades with unknown origin called rus.

[Elim Garak]

correct this to "for the last 2000 years". Everything evil in this world came from the east. the skythes, the awares, the huns, the mongols, the turks
, the russians. The whole european History is about "fighting the evil from asia". So its not russian per se, its just against everything eastern that threatens civilization. Only since 800 years ago , this role is fulfilled by the eastern nomades with unknown origin called rus.

Only Russians never came, had visitors themselves in fact, from both east and west.

[Forogil]

Acting is not discrimination either. It's like you have problems with dealing with words.
If you don't like gays and then kill one - that's not discrimination. That's just murder.

In many countries a 'hate crime' - not just murder; and could be seen as extreme discrimination (depriving someone of their live).

Traffic regulations are not laws.

Except that you should Stop for a Stop is often a law (and also the penalty for violating that), or otherwise governed by the laws - in countries with working legal systems.

[Independent voter]

These threads and conversations will no longer be necessary when people look inward and stop blaming the East/West for everything that ails them. Until then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Putin and the other oligarchs need the Russian people to focus on a foreign threat, eg, the West. If the Russian people stopped looking for foreign problems they would see Putin and the oligarchs raping Russia and destroying Russia's future.

Chinese citizens have a higher standard of living than Russian citizens these days. China looks to the future. Putin and the oligarchs just don't want to get caught and convicted for their crimes against the Russian people.

30 years from now when Russia has a weaker economy than Poland, the Russian people will point fingers at the West and say "It's all their fault!"

[Forogil]

Putin and the other oligarchs need the Russian people to focus on a foreign threat, eg, the West. If the Russian people stopped looking for foreign problems they would see Putin and the oligarchs raping Russia and destroying Russia's future.

Except that even if they did see that it would be unlikely to help Russia; the problem with a kleptocracy is that you normally don't get reformers pushing for a fair government (even if they say they want that) - but oligarchs trying to replace the existing ones, and do the raping and destroying themselves.

[Berndorf]

This is beyond silly. I brought points to the table, and you responded calling me emotional and not worth making reasonable conversation with. Because I responded in kind, I'm now the strawman. Okay. This is why I talk like this. Because of this insufferable crap where you dart in with some MSM quip. Yeah, I can see how you can look down on me from up there.

Fuck it. Still waiting on you still show me any sign of Russia giving any interest towards this peace that you think America is brainwashed from achieving. But no! I'm too unreasonable? Prove me fucking wrong, snake.

There you go again. Calling people names and acting like a child yet again. There is big difference between what you think you are saying in your posts and what you are actually saying. You are passive/aggressive to such a degree that no reasonable person is ever going to think its worth the time and energy of dealing with you. Take a look at what the senate just did. Voting 98-2 to put more sanctions on Russia based on what proof of meddling in our elections? None. I'm not looking for a debate with anyone of your ilk though which are generally why I avoid political threads in the first place. Just believe w/e you want to believe. Leave me out of it though because I am not interested in hearing anything more from you. If you respond to me again I am just going to flag it and leave it at that.

[downnola]

Yeah, when US will stop blaming Russia for electing Trump you might see Russia stop blaming West too.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

You can't even cede that both countries fuel mistrust of the other without taking another shot. Maybe holding your breath would do you some good.

- - - Updated - - -

Putin and the other oligarchs need the Russian people to focus on a foreign threat, eg, the West. If the Russian people stopped looking for foreign problems they would see Putin and the oligarchs raping Russia and destroying Russia's future.

Chinese citizens have a higher standard of living than Russian citizens these days. China looks to the future. Putin and the oligarchs just don't want to get caught and convicted for their crimes against the Russian people.

30 years from now when Russia has a weaker economy than Poland, the Russian people will point fingers at the West and say "It's all their fault!"

Introspection isn't a likely item on the menu for a society capable of doing what it did to the kulaks, while simultaneously blaming the U.S. for everything that happens to them. "Putin only gets away with theft, murder, and corruption because of the west!" What absolute piffle.

[Elim Garak]

In many countries a 'hate crime' - not just murder; and could be seen as extreme discrimination (depriving someone of their live).

Which is silly. Because murder is intrinsically a hate crime. Depriving someone of their life illegally - is the definition of murder, not discrimination. Nice semantic-o-twist though.

Except that you should Stop for a Stop is often a law (and also the penalty for violating that), or otherwise governed by the laws - in countries with working legal systems.

Judges don't give you tickets, now, do they? So again you are trying to use semantics "it's kinda a law". The point was about judges nevertheless. You only meet a judge when you commit a crime or want to challenge the traffic ticket.

[Forogil]

Which is silly. Because murder is intrinsically a hate crime. Depriving someone of their life illegally - is the definition of murder, not discrimination. Nice semantic-o-twist though.

It can be both murder and discrimination - they are not mutually exclusive. (In human social affairs, discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which the person or thing is perceived to belong rather than on individual attributes.)

And murder is not intrinsically a 'hate crime' (A hate crime is a prejudice-motivated crime, usually violent, which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group.)

However, the point remains - trying to say that other discrimination wasn't discrimination is a sign of Russian weakness.

Judges don't give you tickets, now, do they? So again you are trying to use semantics "it's kinda a law".

I wrote 'judge or police' - and it's a law in most countries - not kinda a law. However, the main point is that you could say that this was wrong - but completely deflected on potentially breaking another law.

- - - Updated - - -

Only Russians never came, had visitors themselves in fact, from both east and west.

Finland, Poland, the Baltic States, Crimea, and others beg to differ.

Specifically Russia invading: Finland 1808, 1939, Baltic states in 1940, Poland 1800s, 1918, 1939 and Crimea 2014.

[Shalcker]

You can't even cede that both countries fuel mistrust of the other without taking another shot. Maybe holding your breath would do you some good.

Actually i did. "It takes two to tango" is exactly about two sides engaging in something.

So you agree both NATO and Russia do not trust each other because of past experiences? And both sides feel justified because of that too?

We have made attempts for more cooperation, they failed, and we cannot concede more then we already did in pursuit of "better relations".

[Flarelaine]

Only Russians never came, had visitors themselves in fact, from both east and west.

So how come I grew up looking at Russian barracks?

[Elim Garak]

It can be both murder and discrimination - they are not mutually exclusive. (In human social affairs, discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which the person or thing is perceived to belong rather than on individual attributes.)

No, it cannot be both. They are not mutually exclusive - they are just different things not related to one another. It's either murder or not murder and in parallel we can look if it's discrimination or not. I.e. if some groups of people are being excluded from receiving the gift of death for discriminatory reasons.

And murder is not intrinsically a 'hate crime' (A hate crime is a prejudice-motivated crime, usually violent, which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group.)

Well not all murders are hate crimes, sometimes people murder people out of love or for money (nothing personal) but most murders are hate crimes. The idea of a hate crime as a thing in and of itself - is stupid.

However, the point remains - trying to say that other discrimination wasn't discrimination is a sign of Russian weakness.

That's a non point. More like a flame bait, there isn't any argument in there. Not to mention it's logically stupid.

I wrote 'judge or police' - and it's a law in most countries - not kinda a law.

I don't know about most countries (and neither do you) but generally speaking the law is above all traffic regulations. The entire traffic code is a law, not specific regulations within it. That's why there are no court hearings involved for parking violations. You just get a ticket and must pay a fine. That's the law, not the traffic violation - but the whole breaking traffic code and getting a ticket and then paying a fine - that's the law, irregardless of the violation itself.

However, the main point is that you could say that this was wrong - but completely deflected on potentially breaking another law.

There was no point. You asked if you can ignore the stop sign - and I said you can and there will be no judges involved.

Finland, Poland, the Baltic States, Crimea, and others beg to differ.

You gotta provide more specifics, if you can that is.

- - - Updated - - -

So how come I grew up looking at Russian barracks?

Ask the Germans and then NATO. Also your government during WW2, they kinda sided with the Nazi.

[Flarelaine]

Ask the Germans and then NATO. Also your government during WW2, they kinda sided with the Nazi.

I really do not think they are relevant when the question is why Russian troops spent 47 years in Hungary. Especially after we sent the message they are not welcome, with a revolution as emphasis. One would think they should have got the message when their tanks were greeted with Molotov cocktails.

[Shalcker]

I really do not think they are relevant when the question is why Russian troops spent 47 years in Hungary. Especially after we sent the message they are not welcome, with a revolution as emphasis. One would think they should have got the message when their tanks were greeted with Molotov cocktails.

Well, i went and looked at our historical timeline, and as it happened, at first they got the message and decided to allow it... but then under pressure from other communist parties (like Chinese and a few others that seen it as huge destabilizing factor) and from world events (Israel-Egypt war) as well as from killings and torture of communists by uprising (rather then simply "freeing their country") they decided they couldn't - because if they would it would be seen as weakness by West and threaten lots of other things.

Also,

Soviet version of the events

Soviet reports of the events surrounding, during, and after the disturbance were remarkably consistent in their accounts, more so after the Second Soviet intervention cemented support for the Soviet position among international Communist Parties. Pravda published an account 36 hours after the outbreak of violence, which set the tone for all further reports and subsequent Soviet historiography:[157]
On 23 October, the honest socialist Hungarians demonstrated against mistakes made by the Rákosi and Gerő governments.
Fascist, Hitlerite, reactionary, counter-revolutionary hooligans financed by the imperialist West took advantage of the unrest to stage a counter-revolution.
The honest Hungarian people under Nagy appealed to Soviet (Warsaw Pact) forces stationed in Hungary to assist in restoring order.
The Nagy government was ineffective, allowing itself to be penetrated by counter-revolutionary influences, weakening then disintegrating, as proven by Nagy's culminating denouncement of the Warsaw Pact.
Hungarian patriots under Kádár broke with the Nagy government and formed a government of honest Hungarian revolutionary workers and peasants; this genuinely popular government petitioned the Soviet command to help put down the counter-revolution.
Hungarian patriots, with Soviet assistance, smashed the counter-revolution.

That looks quite similar to Crimea/Donbass narrative... actually looking at details, in more then one...

[Flarelaine]

Well, i went and looked at our historical timeline, and as it happened, at first they got the message and decided to allow it... but then under pressure from other communist parties (like Chinese and a few others that seen it as huge destabilizing factor) and from world events (Israel-Egypt war) as well as from killings and torture of communists by uprising (rather then simply "freeing their country") they decided they couldn't - because if they would it would be seen as weakness by West and threaten lots of other things.

Also,

Soviet version of the events

Soviet reports of the events surrounding, during, and after the disturbance were remarkably consistent in their accounts, more so after the Second Soviet intervention cemented support for the Soviet position among international Communist Parties. Pravda published an account 36 hours after the outbreak of violence, which set the tone for all further reports and subsequent Soviet historiography:[157]
On 23 October, the honest socialist Hungarians demonstrated against mistakes made by the Rákosi and Gerő governments.
Fascist, Hitlerite, reactionary, counter-revolutionary hooligans financed by the imperialist West took advantage of the unrest to stage a counter-revolution.
The honest Hungarian people under Nagy appealed to Soviet (Warsaw Pact) forces stationed in Hungary to assist in restoring order.
The Nagy government was ineffective, allowing itself to be penetrated by counter-revolutionary influences, weakening then disintegrating, as proven by Nagy's culminating denouncement of the Warsaw Pact.
Hungarian patriots under Kádár broke with the Nagy government and formed a government of honest Hungarian revolutionary workers and peasants; this genuinely popular government petitioned the Soviet command to help put down the counter-revolution.
Hungarian patriots, with Soviet assistance, smashed the counter-revolution.

That looks quite similar to Crimea/Donbass narrative... actually looking at details, in more then one...

As you can guess, we remember that stuff in a somewhat different manner. On the other hand, the Soviet version is indeed quite similar to recent Russian accounts of Crimea. Once again, Moscow has one version and the victims another - who would have thought?

And of course there is a kernel of truth in the Soviet version. The Nagy government was indeed weak. Possibly because it was under siege from the start. He announced Hungary would withdraw from the Warsaw Pact - which is a far cry from appealing to them for help. Kádár invited the Soviet troops and ruled the country for the next 33 years (although he was forced out of effective leadership two years before his death).

[Elim Garak]

I really do not think they are relevant when the question is why Russian troops spent 47 years in Hungary.

It's very relevant. Because it provides context. E.g. without context the Nuremberg Trials with all the executions seems barbaric.

Especially after we sent the message they are not welcome, with a revolution as emphasis. One would think they should have got the message when their tanks were greeted with Molotov cocktails.

Who's we? NATO sponsored group of Hungarians? And after Soviets left, the same group rewritten the history and now you believe that it was "WE"?
The truth, you know, is a three edged sword. Your side, their side and the truth.