Arthas' fate in the Void

[MrSaggins]

With the end of the Legion upon us and the Void Lords shaping up to be the new ultimate antagonist I have to wonder if Prince Arthas will become relevant again. The Dark Lady confirmed she met him in what was presumably the Void, and the Void Lords seem to be tormenting him. So his consciousness still exists in some capacity that the writers could draw from when fleshing out the threat to come. Perhaps something as minor as a Deathbringer Saurfang equivalent, a quest chain, or even permanently returning to Lordaeron with the aid of Val'kyr. He would be a fitting candidate to lead the (begrudging) Forsaken should something happen to Sylvanas, her story take her from the Horde or her responsibilities as Warchief demand she delegate her duties in the Royal Quarter to another. After all, the people of Lordaeron are his people. Arthas vs Anduin could make for a great pvp story line.

[StationaryHawk]

I can't see the Forsaken ever choosing to willingly follow Arthas, and I certainly hope Blizzard never goes down that path or any path resulting in his return. His story is finished.

[Azarak]

I can't see the Forsaken ever choosing to willingly follow Arthas, and I certainly hope Blizzard never goes down that path or any path resulting in his return. His story is finished.

That pretty much sums up this thread perfectly. I hope he never comes back especially as the forsaken leader. That wouldn't make sense lorewise and I'm sick of character deaths being meaningless in so many movies and games lately since they just come back through a loophole or there's some alternate version of that character. It's lazy story writing and makes deaths, as i said, meaningless.

[TriHard]

Jeeeeeeesuuuuuuuus chriiiiiiiiiiist. When are people gonna shut up about this.
Arthas is long gone, he is dead. Get this in your head:

His-Story-Is-Over
It ended with the best expansion we've ever had / ever will have for this game.
It was a fitting end.

[Doctor Amadeus]

If Arthas fate isn't sealed an outcomb determined what is the point of going along for the ride in what is already fiction. I loved WoTLK as my all time favorite but why do people keep drinking from this well?

Not saying or you shouldn't just don't understand the point.

[Friendlyimmolation]

With the end of the Legion upon us and the Void Lords shaping up to be the new ultimate antagonist I have to wonder if Prince Arthas will become relevant again. The Dark Lady confirmed she met him in what was presumably the Void, and the Void Lords seem to be tormenting him. So his consciousness still exists in some capacity that the writers could draw from when fleshing out the threat to come. Perhaps something as minor as a Deathbringer Saurfang equivalent, a quest chain, or even permanently returning to Lordaeron with the aid of Val'kyr. He would be a fitting candidate to lead the (begrudging) Forsaken should something happen to Sylvanas, her story take her from the Horde or her responsibilities as Warchief demand she delegate her duties in the Royal Quarter to another. After all, the people of Lordaeron are his people. Arthas vs Anduin could make for a great pvp story line.

The only thing the forsaken would do with arthas would be infinite torture

[McNeil]

Arthas is one of the few characters that had a solid story arc going from the beginning till the end, Blizzard keeps ruining their characters by returning them for the sole purpose of fan service. Illidan is a prime example for this. If they do want to bring him back I hope that we get to redeem his soul so that he can move on, with an epic quest chain where he asks forgiveness to the ones he hurt the most. The only other way he could return is in another AU universe, but after WoD I doubt that they'd do anything like that again.

[Deleted]

The Dark Lady confirmed she met him in what was presumably the Void, and the Void Lords seem to be tormenting him. So his consciousness still exists in some capacity that the writers could draw from when fleshing out the threat to come.

I am really interested in seeing where this happened! Could you share some info about their meeting and how you found out?

[Combatbutler]

I am really interested in seeing where this happened! Could you share some info about their meeting and how you found out?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner

And void lords are not mentioned.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Jeeeeeeesuuuuuuuus chriiiiiiiiiiist. When are people gonna shut up about this.
Arthas is long gone, he is dead.

He just has to talk to the spirit healer to fix that.

No one in this insipid game can die unless they just decide not to talk to that bitch or run 500 yards.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

The "hell" sylvanas visited is unlikely to be the Void.
We're not entirely sure what it is, but it's far more likely to be a corner of the Shadowlands. It's the realm of Death, which is connected to the Undead, hence both Arthas and Sylvanas ending up there, and the Val'kyr have access to it, which we know to be their purpose.

[Deleted]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner

And void lords are not mentioned.

Ah, I thought it was a playable quest, how unfortunate. :P

Thanks for the link, I'll definitely give it a read. But since it's a short story, it's non-canon I guess; we may not be able to connect it to current lore.
The story has evolved through the Chronicles, and as you said, Void Lords were not even mentioned back then.

[Adoxe]

I am really interested in seeing where this happened! Could you share some info about their meeting and how you found out?

Sylvanas's short story from Cataclysm. It's called Edge of Night.


OT: I love Arthas, I love flashbacks and little cameos like the ones in Legion with the DK quest line and special artifact interactions around the Broken Isles, but please no. Bringing back a character who had a great story with a great ending is never a good idea. All the memories from early Warcraft games and Wrath would forever be tainted by the new story if it's not on the same level which would be incredibly hard to accomplish. If they ever decide to bring him back in a void related expansion, I hope it's only to help him move on from that place into the afterlife and nothing else. Sylvanas should probably understand Arthas by now since she pretty much became him, I could see her using the Val'kyr to guide him to a better place as part of her redemption should they go for it.

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But since it's a short story, it's non-canon I guess;

Not really sure who told you this or why you would think that, but everything except Hearthstone and Warcraft RPG books is canon by default. Chronicle, so far, has not retconned that storyline so until that happens, if it even does, it's how it is.

[xChurch]

I'd only really want him back with a redemption story. Garrosh had to opportunity to be redeemed even after he went willingly crazy, Arthas was manipulated into becoming a DK. Bringing him back just to be the Forsaken leader would feel like a cop-out and probably be really hard to pull off in a convincing way. Would rather have more fresh blood than rehashes and Arthas is one of my favourite characters.

[Deleted]

Not really sure who told you this or why you would think that, but everything except Hearthstone and Warcraft RPG books is canon by default. Chronicle, so far, has not retconned that storyline so until that happens, if it even does, it's how it is.

I thought that whatever is not in the game is non-canon, the only exception being the Chronicles. Thank you for clarifying that.

As much as I like Arthas and the whole Scourge story, I agree that his return doesn't fit his end and would devalue his story.
I would love to watch a movie about Arthas, as I enjoyed reading the book about his character, but not see him return in person. Flashbacks of his past and WotLK references are always welcome, the paladin mount quest, for example, that had you return to Strathmole, was amazing.
The Scourge, on the other hand, and the current Lich King could make a very interesting return.

What I found strange about frost DK's Memory of Arthas event is that he whispers things about the current Lich King and how the player has been made his pawn. But how does he know of current events?

[Azarak]

He just has to talk to the spirit healer to fix that.

No one in this insipid game can die unless they just decide not to talk to that bitch or run 500 yards.

Probably a troll, but I'll bite... spirit healers are quite obviously only for gameplay and not canon. It would be terrible if the game had permadeath, and equally as terrible if lorewise all characters never permanently die.

[MrSaggins]

That pretty much sums up this thread perfectly. I hope he never comes back especially as the forsaken leader. That wouldn't make sense lorewise and I'm sick of character deaths being meaningless in so many movies and games lately since they just come back through a loophole or there's some alternate version of that character. It's lazy story writing and makes deaths, as i said, meaningless.

Fair enough, and normally I would agree with you. I'm also of the mind that bringing back characters can seriously diminish the impact of their death... but Arthas is my all time favorite Warcraft character so I'm really dying to know what he's up to ^_^

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner

And void lords are not mentioned.

Correct, I did mean to word that more carefully. Though I took the other creatures Sylvanas found there tormenting her to be Void Lords. Didn't you?

The "hell" sylvanas visited is unlikely to be the Void.
We're not entirely sure what it is, but it's far more likely to be a corner of the Shadowlands. It's the realm of Death, which is connected to the Undead, hence both Arthas and Sylvanas ending up there, and the Val'kyr have access to it, which we know to be their purpose.

You don't think so? Since reading Sylvanas' story I've always imagined the Warcraft afterlife concept to consist of a realm of Light and fond memories, where Sylvanas went when Arthas originally killed her, and the Void, the Hell that Uther spoke of in Warcraft 3 where Void Lords and their servants tear at the souls of those who never found peace in life. The Shadowlands would be a sort of purgatory in between for lost and transitioning souls nearer to the physical plane.

I'd only really want him back with a redemption story. Garrosh had to opportunity to be redeemed even after he went willingly crazy, Arthas was manipulated into becoming a DK. Bringing him back just to be the Forsaken leader would feel like a cop-out and probably be really hard to pull off in a convincing way. Would rather have more fresh blood than rehashes and Arthas is one of my favourite characters.

Oooo, cool point. Garrosh may also be in the Void given his deeds, inability to ever find peace and his dealings with the power of Y'shaarj.

Probably a troll, but I'll bite... spirit healers are quite obviously only for gameplay and not canon. It would be terrible if the game had permadeath, and equally as terrible if lorewise all characters never permanently die.

Spirit healers are canon. They're Val'kyr who sided with neither Odyn nor Helya. Likewise rezzing fellow characters is canon, and creates a similar paradox/plot hole.

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If they do want to bring him back I hope that we get to redeem his soul so that he can move on, with an epic quest chain where he asks forgiveness to the ones he hurt the most.

Really cool idea by the way. Maybe even a PVP objective between Stormwind lightwielders and Undercity Shadow Priests fighting for the fate of his soul?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

You don't think so? Since reading Sylvanas' story I've always imagined the Warcraft afterlife concept to consist of a realm of Light and fond memories, where Sylvanas went when Arthas originally killed her, and the Void, the Hell that Uther spoke of in Warcraft 3 where Void Lords and their servants tear at the souls of those who never found peace in life. The Shadowlands would be a sort of purgatory in between for lost and transitioning souls nearer to the physical plane.

But that isn't what Shadowlands is. It's a realm parallel to Azeroth, much like the Emerald Dream. It's known to be where souls end up.
From Chronicle:

..the Shadowlands represent death. They are nightmarish realms of decay, labyrinthine spiritual planes teeming with the souls of the dead who have passed from the world of the living.

The origins of the Shadowlands remain uncertain, but they have existed ever since mortal life first arose in the physical universe. Many believe that mortal souls are drawn into this dark place at the point of death, where they remain forever after. Still others hope that their souls will go to a brighter place...

No mention of purgatory or of the Void. It's the realm of death, which is why the undead end up there. To my knowledge, only Arthas and Sylvanas are known to have entered such a "hell". If it is the Void, Blizzard have done a poor job of communicating that, and it certainly doesn't explain why the Valkyr would be able to go there, or agree to take Sylvanas' place.
The notion of taking her place there is something that needs explanation full stop, as it makes no sense either way, and to me implies the Valykr are lying.

[StationaryHawk]

The notion of taking her place there is something that needs explanation full stop, as it makes no sense either way, and to me implies the Valykr are lying.

Val'kyr were only designed to retrieve fallen vrykul from the Shadowlands. This is something made evident in Silverpine Forest, from the use of strictly non-human troops in Pyrewood Village to the offering of the worgen curse to Hillsbrad refugees, although it's directly contradicted by gameplay mechanics like val'kyr raising death knights that die in their starting area. Presumably, their pact with Sylvanas was the only way to bring her back, and involves taking her place to do so.

I agree that Blizzard has been vague on the deaths of Arthas and Syvlanas, however. They seem to suffer a worse fate than should be normal, but outside of one short story we're told nothing.

[MrSaggins]

No mention of purgatory or of the Void. It's the realm of death, which is why the undead end up there. To my knowledge, only Arthas and Sylvanas are known to have entered such a "hell". If it is the Void, Blizzard have done a poor job of communicating that, and it certainly doesn't explain why the Valkyr would be able to go there, or agree to take Sylvanas' place.
The notion of taking her place there is something that needs explanation full stop, as it makes no sense either way, and to me implies the Valykr are lying.

Fair enough regarding the Shadowlands. There certainly isn't enough evidence to verify my theory, but I'm not seeing enough to squash it either. As for Blizzard doing a "poor job of communicating" that Sylvanas/Arthas' Hell was the void, I beg to differ ^_^:

Her whole life seemed not a series of events but a single instant, a pinpoint flash of consciousness in an infinite void.

She saw only darkness.

And then she felt—truly felt, for the first time in a long while. She recoiled. In agony.

Here she was, her spirit once again feeling whole, only to feel it suffer. To feel once more, only to feel abject pain. Cold. Hopelessness.

Fear.

There were others in the darkness. Things she didn't recognize, because nothing so terrible could exist in the world of the living. Claws tore at her, but she had no mouth with which to scream. Eyes looked at her, but she couldn't look back.

Regret.

She sensed a familiar presence. Recognized it. The taunting voice that had once held her in its grasp. Arthas? Arthas Menethil? Here? His essence rushed to her, desperate, then shrank away in horrified recognition. The boy who would be Lich King. Just a scared little blond child, reaping the aftermath of a lifetime of mistakes. If any part of Sylvanas's soul were not at that moment torn and tormented, she might have even felt—for the first time—the slightest glimmer of pity for him.

In the grand landscape of all the world's suffering and all the evils of the infinite, the Lich King was… insignificant.

Now the others had her. Surrounded her. Gleeful, tormenting, tearing at her consciousness, delighting in her suffering.

Horror.

This was to be her eternity: the endless void, the dark, unknown realm of anguish.

I immediately associated the line "nothing so terrible could exist in the world of the living" with the Void Lords, who can't manifest in the physical realm without an immense source of power ^_^

I long for the day our masters can truly pass into this realm. You have only seen fragments, shadows; the faintest of echoes. Ask the Ethereals what one of these manifestations are capable of.