Has military hero worship gotten out of hand?

[Deleted]

Yeah, it's not necessarily the soldier's fault. It's the politicians doing all that. I get that uniform worship in the US is a bit ridiculous, but the soldiers are literally the last ones you want to attack for that. They aren't usually asking for it. And they're doing their job. And when they fuck up, which they do, they get into more trouble than your average office worker. And when they make mistakes, they don't just get a slap on the wrist or get fired, they kill people and get friends killed, too. They're under a lot of pressure. Don't worship them, but don't disrespect them for being in a shitty business told by shitty politicians to ruin other people's shitty lives.

That's the cop-out the military have been using for years.

If no one signs up for war then it doesn't happen. These people made a rational decision to sign up and get a decent salary and juicy benefits. The ultimate responsibility may lie up at the top but it can't happen without them.

I'm really tired of hearing this stuff. If you are an adult you take your responsibility for your actions.

[Slant]

That's the cop-out the military have been using for years.

If no one signs up for war then it doesn't happen. These people made a rational decision to sign up and get a decent salary and juicy benefits. The ultimate responsibility may lie up at the top but it can't happen without them.

I'm really tired of hearing this stuff. If you are an adult you take your responsibility for your actions.

Yes, that's right. And they are. But you need to know where to aim the responsibility. You can blame it all on the soldiers and it'll make fuck all of a difference. Aim it at the President and you have the guy who actually is responsible for sending them in. What is being mean to that soldier at the airport accomplishing? One dude feels bad, congrats. Now what?

[Karon]

Yeah, it's not necessarily the soldier's fault. It's the politicians doing all that. I get that uniform worship in the US is a bit ridiculous, but the soldiers are literally the last ones you want to attack for that. They aren't usually asking for it. And they're doing their job. And when they fuck up, which they do, they get into more trouble than your average office worker. And when they make mistakes, they don't just get a slap on the wrist or get fired, they kill people and get friends killed, too. They're under a lot of pressure. Don't worship them, but don't disrespect them for being in a shitty business told by shitty politicians to ruin other people's shitty lives.

something something mauerschützen.

[Slant]

something something mauerschützen.

Fair point. So, when we're discussing the army of a Western democratic nation that is full of soldiers that aren't allowed to properly defend themselves or actually conduct proper warfare to protect civilians, you think... communist dictatorship army? When we talk about terrorists using civilians as human shields as a common battlefield strategy, you're thinking soldiers aiming specifically for the back of fleeing, unarmed civilians that have yet to cross the actual, literal minefield?

Great analogy there, mate. Really, swell job.

[Soikona]

There are apparently as many "heroes" as there are "geniuses" these days.
That said, surely you just check what medals they've got, or is the military handing out participation medals now?

Funny you mention that. With The Troubles, all American service personell were given a medal for overflying Northern Ireland because it was considered to be a warzone. So the tale goes any way.

[Deleted]

Yes, that's right. And they are. But you need to know where to aim the responsibility. You can blame it all on the soldiers and it'll make fuck all of a difference. Aim it at the President and you have the guy who actually is responsible for sending them in. What is being mean to that soldier at the airport accomplishing? One dude feels bad, congrats. Now what?

The precise opposite is true. Abuse was continuously levelled at Bush during the Iraq war-it amounted to nothing. In the 60's soldiers were spat on in the street and dumped by their girlfriends. The war was run down. That was very unfair-they were conscripts mostly and had much less information than we do nowadays, but it illustrates the general point that when you target the soldiers you make prosecuting the war very difficult.

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Fair point. So, when we're discussing the army of a Western democratic nation that is full of soldiers that aren't allowed to properly defend themselves or actually conduct proper warfare to protect civilians, you think... communist dictatorship army? When we talk about terrorists using civilians as human shields as a common battlefield strategy, you're thinking soldiers aiming specifically for the back of fleeing, unarmed civilians that have yet to cross the actual, literal minefield?

Great analogy there, mate. Really, swell job.

Yeah and all the hundreds of thousands of children the US has murdered over the last few decades, that's all "collateral damage" I suppose.
"Properly defending oneself"=drone strikes on hospitals.

Please spare us the vomit-inducing hypocrisy. The US has never played by marquess of queensberry rules and nor does any one else.

[Slant]

The precise opposite is true. Abuse was continuously levelled at Bush during the Iraq war-it amounted to nothing. In the 60's soldiers were spat on in the street and dumped by their girlfriends. The war was run down. That was very unfair-they were conscripts mostly and had much less information than we do nowadays, but it illustrates the general point that when you target the soldiers you make prosecuting the war very difficult.

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Yeah and all the hundreds of thousands of children the US has murdered over the last few decades, that's all "collateral damage" I suppose.

Please spare us the vomit-inducing hypocrisy. The US has never played by marquess of queensberry rules and nor does any one else.

Trying to prevent war by guilt shaming a soldier at a time. That's a novel idea. By all means, go ahead and tell me how that works. :P

The US never claimed to be saints. I'm not exactly defending their actions here. I condemned them often enough for breaking international treaties and contracts and attacking Iraq, diving the whole region into a giant religious clusterfuck. But this isn't about that. This is about soldiers at home. And I maintain the strict middle point that hero worship is wrong and dangerous while at the same time, soldiers are doing a job and should get the appropriate amount of respect for doing that job. Think of a bus driver. I don't talk to him, I don't hug him that he managed to open the doors for me. I don't shed a tear everytime I walk past him. But I don't call him an asshole because he's got bus lanes that I can't drive on with my car, that he gets to charge me stupid amounts of money for the privilege of lugging my divine ass around the city.

But of course, I understand... we're in a world of stupid now, where you have to side one way or the other to the extreme to be considered having a valid viewpoint. Because that's much simpler.

[Lane]

Someone is not a hero just because they are a combat vet, a nurse, teacher, or fire/police.

This. I don't like the idea that someone's worth is judged based on their uniform or job title. There are as many bad people in those professions as there are any other.

[Deleted]

Trying to prevent war by guilt shaming a soldier at a time. That's a novel idea. By all means, go ahead and tell me how that works. :P

As I just pointed out, it worked very effectively with Vietnam.

And don't claim to be some kind of moderate. You live in a country where the "leftists" were "only" bombing seven different countries at a time.

[ParanoiD84]

No not really when compared to back in the days, i mean wars have and will always be apart of human history so might as well worship some.

[Freighter]

As I just pointed out, it worked very effectively with Vietnam.

And don't claim to be some kind of moderate. You live in a country where the "leftists" were "only" bombing seven different countries at a time.

Leftists in germany were bombing 7 different countries at a time? When?

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What they deserve is a proper amount of respect.

I have no respect for US soldiers stationed in South Korea. Too many bad experiences.

[Deleted]

Leftists in germany were bombing 7 different countries at a time? When?

He's a German? Wow, never met such an apologist for US militarism in Germany. Or pretty much anywhere outside of redneckland in the US itself.

[Freighter]

He's a German? Wow, never met such an apologist for US militarism in Germany.

... You said he lives in a country in which leftists bombed 7 countries at a time, I ask when germany did that and you just jump to omg lol germany instead of admitting you were wrong?

[Deleted]

... You said he lives in a country in which leftists bombed 7 countries at a time, I ask when germany did that and you just jump to omg lol germany instead of admitting you were wrong?

As I recall you made a number of retarded posts in a constant stream of verbal diarrhea on this forum which you then subsequently backtracked from, so I'm following your example

[Slant]

I have no respect for US soldiers stationed in South Korea. Too many bad experiences.

Then perhaps that is the proper amount of respect.

[Flarelaine]

Leftists in germany were bombing 7 different countries at a time? When?

The only country I recall German leftist bombing is... Germany.

But that was, like, in the seventies.

[Karon]

Fair point. So, when we're discussing the army of a Western democratic nation that is full of soldiers that aren't allowed to properly defend themselves or actually conduct proper warfare to protect civilians, you think... communist dictatorship army? When we talk about terrorists using civilians as human shields as a common battlefield strategy, you're thinking soldiers aiming specifically for the back of fleeing, unarmed civilians that have yet to cross the actual, literal minefield?

Great analogy there, mate. Really, swell job.

"the soldiers just follow orders"

That's the point, but good job at twisting and spinning everything to your liking.

But in hindsight the analogy doesn't fit really. Mauerschützen had to fear for their lifes if they didn't do as they where told while the US soldiers would just lose their job I the army. That puts them in an even worse spot.

[Xirrohon]

Im an Army Vet but I never really talk about it. Ive also worked for the Army as a civilian for almost 15yrs. Most of the military being recognized is because how badly Vets were treated after Vietnam. The post that I work at has a Warrior Transition Unit, its where soldiers that were injured or suffer PTSD go before being allowed to return to duty/civilian life. Its sad seeing "kids" with fake limbs or suffering from mental issues at such a young age. Also, I think that Police, Fire Dept dont get recognized enough.

[Deleted]

Im an Army Vet but I never really talk about it. Ive also worked for the Army as a civilian for almost 15yrs. Most of the military being recognized is because how badly Vets were treated after Vietnam. The post that I work at has a Warrior Transition Unit, its where soldiers that were injured or suffer PTSD go before being allowed to return to duty/civilian life. Its sad seeing "kids" with fake limbs or suffering from mental issues at such a young age.

These aren't conscripts as soldiers were mostly in Vietnam, they volunteered. They made a choice to risk their lives and their health for a good salary because of that danger. They were also completely indifferent to the suffering they inflicted on foreign populations, who don't have generous social programs to fall back on, if a drone blows their arms and legs off. Additionally the military goes to extraordinary lengths to keep soldiers out of harms way relative to conflicts like Vietnam, often risking civillian lives to protect them.

In short I can't see any reason to treat them any differently to any one else in the US. Why not just leave them to rot like you do with people who get cancer? It'd save the taxpayer a lot of money.

[Snowfunk]

What even is:

military hero worship

?

Murican thing?