So...AP system made obsolete?

[Vorecien]

Max AK reduced
AK research made to take a couple days instead of months
Farming past concordance is pretty pointless as things are now

So yeah I'm not really whining but AP is taken off the shelf or what? Unless Argus introduced new AK and/or traits, what is there to do?

Argus hasn't been made available. That arrives in patch 7.3. This is a catch up mechanism for people to reach 40 a bit faster, which allows them to boost their alts faster. I believe we're in the later half of the Legion expansion, or at least super close to it. We'll see.

[Swalload]

Well I meant to say that it isn't really completely obsolete, just that effort / reward is a bit off.

You get AP by doing things, we used to do things without getting any AP, so basically there is zero extra effort for a bonus reward that never existed.

You're right, the effort/reward is off but the opposite way of what you are thinking.

[kaid]

Max AK reduced
AK research made to take a couple days instead of months
Farming past concordance is pretty pointless as things are now

So yeah I'm not really whining but AP is taken off the shelf or what? Unless Argus introduced new AK and/or traits, what is there to do?

They just unlocked the heirloom stuff. We are getting to the point of the expansion where they are expecting and encouraging alts to start getting used more. The amount of orderhall resources needed for a new player to max out is still a lot of work/effort but for people who already have a max level geared up character it makes alts a lot easier to get up to a useful level of ability.

[Slappy]

I would prefer the AK to continue to make finishing alt and off spec weapons faster, but other than that it is fine as Blizzard can tune new content around how far the different groups of players have upgraded their weapons (hardcore, average raiders, casual players etc) and it leaves more room to be continues on Argus and beyond.

[emilylorange]

The saddest thing about legion is that it is shaping up to be remembered as a expansion with really good content but some of the worse game systems crippling it throughout its entire run.

If this happened and the devs didn't repeat it in the next expack, that's my main criteria for ever coming back.

[Vulgrym]

The AP system is much better now that the gains are harshly capped during a new raid tier. It's fine if they unleash aggressive farming outside of progression windows, but it's absolutely brutal on players to have uncapped personal power gain at the same time as a new raid (ToV was particularly mean).

[Schizoide]

It's fine if they unleash aggressive farming outside of progression windows,

I agree it's much better in 7.2 with a harder soft-cap then a really grindy hard-cap, but I don't feel that strongly incentivizing aggressive farming is ever OK.

[Deleted]

my alts are getting concordance faster then their 3rd relic slot, so yeah i'd say its obsolete.

[Vulgrym]

I agree it's much better in 7.2 with a harder soft-cap then a really grindy hard-cap, but I don't feel that strongly incentivizing aggressive farming is ever OK.

I agree, overall I have a healthy dislike for the system. I'm just relieved the fixed the absolute worst parts of it.

[huth]

The problem is that the difference is irrelevant, there is no option to play without AP.

The difference is the difference between actually understanding a statement and rambling on nonsensically like you are.

The heat isn't the AP system. The AP system is part of the game. The heat is unhealthy playstyles.

[Constraint]

I wouldn't say that bonus 100 main stat is obsolete, it's a nice thing for people who like to min/max everything.

Agreed that it's not obsolete, it certainly adds up.

Out of curiosity, why do you say min/max in this situation? How is gaining 100 agi every couple of weeks min/maxing? What are you minimizing in order to maximize your output? Your social life perhaps?

[Myztikrice]

Yes, doing all the raids and mythic+0s and all the AP WQs, etc

[Heladys]

Ap is a symptom of blizzard not being able to pick a type of player they want to cater to and instead making everyone annoyed.

The only people annoyed are the same people who make a show about being annoyed by everything.

Rational people understand the system's purpose and where it's at now.

[Wingspan]

When I first heard about AP progression, it sounded fine (like basically a few extra long levels to grind).

When I discovered that it was really never intended to end during the expansion, it struck me as one of the dumbest designs ever in an MMO. If you make an endless grind that results In power, then some people are going to grind nearly endlessly... And that can't end well.

And then when they decided to nerf the rewards on the endless grind to near uselessness, they took dumb design to an epic new level. Because a system that discourages its own use generally serves no purpose.

[Demeia]

I think this is it, yes. It served its purpose in terms of the story. Our weapons did grow powerful enough to take on the Legion on their own turf.

It also came with a whole host of problems as a system, which will now start going away.

I found this comment to be the one I most agree with. I did not like being spec locked (see also legendaries) although to be fair Outlaw was so terrible until they recently fixed the roll the bones that it didn't practically matter.

[Hashtronaut]

It's filler content! (I'm not complaining)

They'll probably introduce new traits or a reason to work for it again, once Argus gets dry/farmable like NH.

[PBitt]

Recent changes make it much more bearable. It's very easy to catch up on alts and secondary specs now without feeling like you're really gimping your main spec out of a lot of throughput like it felt with the initial grind to 54 traits. I think it's fine, it's there to grind for that extra small % of extra power for those that really really want to do it but for most people it's kind of a background thing at this point. I enjoyed striving to unlock traits early on in this expansion, trying to get as much as I could unlocked before EN but it was kind of a drag by the time it got to NH. I don't mind if they add some more traits later on but I'd prefer it to be short and sweet.

[Pull My Finger]

The saddest thing about legion is that it is shaping up to be remembered as a expansion with really good content but some of the worse game systems crippling it throughout its entire run.

Yeah. How about no.

I don't even really know what it is about AP now that you people are whining so much. It's always gotta be something I guess.

[Ishayu]

I found this comment to be the one I most agree with. I did not like being spec locked (see also legendaries) although to be fair Outlaw was so terrible until they recently fixed the roll the bones that it didn't practically matter.

I think the biggest problem was the sheer grind of it.

And by grind, I don't mean "lots to do". I mean the way in which doing something today can have me putting in twice the effort for the same reward doing it tomorrow would, but then still having that nagging feeling of being behind when you finally do it. The curve never felt great. It wasn't a subtle yet noticable difference like the rested XP system - and it didn't reward doing very hard content as much as it should.

Add to that the fact that it overwhelmingly rewarded repeating the same easy content instead of progressing, i.e. mythic raiders spamming M+2 MoS, Normal, and Heroic raids to get it, the super easy and eventually repetitive world quests, and so on, and ultimately it started feeling like you were repeating easy content for small rewards, but it was the most effective way to advantage.

That's grinding in a nutshell, and I really don't think it did the game any favours.

Having said that, the game was doing a better and better job of fixing these problems by this point, but there was still some work left to be done. Either way, getting rid of the system solves those problems.

However, it also significantly reduces the need to farm old content, so we'll see where that lands us in a few months time. I have a feeling that Legion will soon feel quite empty to most players, so that's a new problem.

[Deleted]

I much prefer it like this. I can get all my specs to concordance and not feel like i need to race to the finish. The whole AP system has been a horrible experience. I am happy it's finally come to some sort of conclusion. I'm sure AK will rise again in 7.3. I just hope they don't add more traits and just let us finish the weapons in a fairly easy way.