American schools stopped crowning valedictorians so other students don't feel bad

[Garnier Fructis]

Do they not though? They took the time to meticulously look through the class listings and calculate every possible outcome for achieving their goals of becoming valedictorian. No one was stopping the other top students from doing what that person did, they instead focused on programs that interested them or would help them through college.

These students played the game and won, why is it okay to take their victory?

Because being Valedictorian is mean to be a mark of highest academic achievement, not a mark of who is the craftiest asshole.

Sure, those students played the game. But they didn't win. Because the people that they maneuvered around are still better positioned in college. In my anecdote, for example, the valedictorian completed a bachelors in the same time it took the salutatorian to graduate and get through half their PHD at a top program. Basically, the valedictorian ended up taking twice the usual time to graduate.

Karma in action.

[Garnier Fructis]

I would give that to you if being a valedictorian actually meant anything in the long run. It's impressive to colleges sure, but only if it's a prestigious school. Not to mention again success in life doesn't mean much based on highschool grades.

What you wrote is exactly why I think it's unfair. Success in life is largely unrelated to whether or not you were valedictorian or salutatorian. So what else, other than stolen glory, is gained? Absolutely nothing. Utterly pointless gaming of the system.

[zenkai]

http://www.businessinsider.com/schoo...torians-2017-6

They people coming up with these types of ideas probably grew up as losers.

[Elim Garak]

Congratulations, Joey! You are the least smart person in the class... oh wait that didn't sound right

[satimy]

Does New York City still have the 5 advanced high schools?

[Scyclone]

As others mentioned here, the concept of a valedictorian in high school is pointless. Now a days, everyone is stuck competing over AP credits overbloating GPA.

For the record, I didn't get honors (top 50 students of the graduating 900 some of my class) - with a GPA of 4.33. Of which, 4.0 is the maximum GPA you can get through normal classes (AP, having the means to go beyond that cap, and requiring as many APs as possible to get it that high - so if you took 6 AP courses and someone else took 7-8, it has already placed your GPA lower than theirs by default).

So when you have to do better than perfect, GPA wise, and still lose out - it seems pretty pointless. Once AP courses got introduced as carrying any more weight than a normal class in terms of GPA, it completely destroyed any sense of balance.

[Xisa]

I'm normally against the "More trophies for everyone!" mentality, but the Valedictorian system has had issues for a long time.

Change isn't always bad, folks.

- - - Updated - - -

As others mentioned here, the concept of a valedictorian in high school is pointless. Now a days, everyone is stuck competing over AP credits overbloating GPA.

For the record, I didn't get honors (top 50 students of the graduating 900 some of my class) - with a GPA of 4.33. Of which, 4.0 is the maximum GPA you can get through normal classes (AP, having the means to go beyond that cap, and requiring as many APs as possible to get it that high - so if you took 6 AP courses and someone else took 7-8, it has already placed your GPA lower than theirs by default).

So when you have to do better than perfect, GPA wise, and still lose out - it seems pretty pointless. Once AP courses got introduced as carrying any more weight than a normal class in terms of GPA, it completely destroyed any sense of balance.

They had to, because someone who get's Straight A's in easy classes doesn't deserve to be academically recognized over someone who got Straight A's in advance coursework. That's why it has to count more.

[Flarelaine]

"You're striving for that (honor) personally, but you're not hoping that you're better than these other 400 people next to you," Carrow said.

Damn right I am. What's this stigma of trying to be better?

[Katchii]

What you wrote is exactly why I think it's unfair. Success in life is largely unrelated to whether or not you were valedictorian or salutatorian. So what else, other than stolen glory, is gained? Absolutely nothing. Utterly pointless gaming of the system.

The achievement itself means nothing in life, but the effort and drive it took to get there and the ability to earn it are applicable in nearly every aspect of real life.

Whether the person actually does something with their life is another story. Regardless, someone who can earn the title of valedictorian or the Latin distinctions are certainly equipped to succeed at other things in life.

[Scyclone]

They had to, because someone who get's Straight A's in easy classes doesn't deserve to be academically recognized over someone who got Straight A's in advance coursework. That's why it has to count more.

I disagree - change the course material to be challenging sure, but what about (and this is the biggest issue of AP courses) the situations as to why only some AP courses are offered but not others.

For example: In high school, I already knew I was going into the computer field. Presently, there were two programming AP courses available.

Someone who went the route of Mathematics or Literature had nearly three times the amount of courses available to them in AP.

Calculus, Geometry, Statistics, and several other ones.

The concept of an "easy class" shouldn't be the fault or punishment of the student. Let them do and learn what they desire, they shouldn't be penalized for it and if they are learning things that are unnecessary, then society makes it clear through hiring processes.

Also, AP doesn't exactly guarantee advanced coursework... Hell, college courses themselves doesn't guarantee advanced coursework. I attended numerous courses leading up to my senior year of college where the courses were not even worth the money that I paid. And that is in business, finance, management and IT based courses. That... and those bullshit required elective hippy courses.

Nothing like leaving a 2-3 hour programming or technology based course to then sit in a 1-2 hour pity-party course that the teacher spent 2/3rds of it projecting their bias onto students by suggesting that technology is destroying the planet entirely by spending 20,000 gallons of water to produce a single hamburger through heavily cherry-picked logic.

Honestly... Academia with any sort of agendas or collective scoring (outside of actual competency within a topic) is just kind of bullshit lol.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Milennials always worried about nothing and doing something about it when something needs getting done but not one of them is around to do it.

[Garnier Fructis]

The achievement itself means nothing in life, but the effort and drive it took to get there and the ability to earn it are applicable in nearly every aspect of real life.

Whether the person actually does something with their life is another story. Regardless, someone who can earn the title of valedictorian or the Latin distinctions are certainly equipped to succeed at other things in life.

The people they stole from expended more effort, because it takes more effort to move through a higher level class than it does to spend a few hours planning how to be an asshole. I would also argue that they have more drive, since they're more focused on moving ahead in life than in having the title of Valedictorian.

And yes, I realize that these people are very accomplished. But they still do not deserve the highest honor.

[Katchii]

The people they stole from expended more effort, because it takes more effort to move through a higher level class than it does to spend a few hours planning how to be an asshole. I would also argue that they have more drive, since they're more focused on moving ahead in life than in having the title of Valedictorian.

And yes, I realize that these people are very accomplished. But they still do not deserve the highest honor.

While I agree, your point doesn't refute mine.

In life, effort doesn't mean much unless you spend it on the right things. Sadly, in many fields, being "successful" doesn't necessarily even mean you're that accomplished it just means you're the best at SHOWING your accomplishments or taking credit for someone else's.

Whether they deserve the highest honor is irrelevant, they learned and played the game and won. You're opinion of them doesn't change that. That's how most job fields work in real life, especially in the corporate world.

[Phookah]

this is the same fucking reason we dont have personal server firsts anymore in wow.

No, the reason we don't have server firsts anymore is because blizzard doesn't want to encourage neckbeards who are likely already candidates for sudden onset death to sit in their diapers for 34 hours straight to get some meaningless sparkle on their account.

OT: My school had valedictorian/salutatorian but I'm fairly sure it was based more on taking a leadership role in the school rather than arbitrary "I did X number of extra curriculars and AP classes"

[Garnier Fructis]

While I agree, your point doesn't refute mine.

In life, effort doesn't mean much unless you spend it on the right things. Sadly, in many fields, being "successful" doesn't necessarily even mean you're that accomplished it just means you're the best at SHOWING your accomplishments or taking credit for someone else's.

Whether they deserve the highest honor is irrelevant, they learned and played the game and won. You're opinion of them doesn't change that. That's how most job fields work in real life, especially in the corporate world.

I'm usually a very cynical person and I would appreciate such a line of reasoning in pretty much any other setting. But not when there's essentially no real benefit.

And there isn't any benefit here. I argue that these people aren't even the best at showing their accomplishments. Since the only place where this might matter, admissions, can see very clearly that they accomplished less than the salutatorian should they both apply to the same schools. And to them, doing the actual hard work looks a hell of a lot better.

And I do believe that whether they deserve it or not is relevant. Because this isn't supposed to be a game. It goes against the whole spirit of the thing.

[Peebuddy]

There are various levels of achievement in the world you guys, why is everyone bitching about acknowledging this just because it's high school?

Under that logic why celebrate anything other than the Nobel prize winners, just stay at home undermining everyone over the internet.

Oh wait, this is MMO-C you already do that

[Katchii]

I'm usually a very cynical person and I would appreciate such a line of reasoning in pretty much any other setting. But not when there's essentially no real benefit.

And there isn't any benefit here. I argue that these people aren't even the best at showing their accomplishments. Since the only place where this might matter, admissions, can see very clearly that they accomplished less than the salutatorian should they both apply to the same schools. And to them, doing the actual hard work looks a hell of a lot better.

And I do believe that whether they deserve it or not is relevant. Because this isn't supposed to be a game. It goes against the whole spirit of the thing.

If we look at this example specifically, valedictorian, I agree with you. However the types of skills it takes to become valedictorian can be applied to the real world. Whether the same person who was valedictorian succeeds in life or not is not really my point, I'm just saying the rules of the "game" for becoming valedictorian apply in real life and those people who learn and apply those skills are going to be the ones who succeed. The valedictorian just has a leg up on the competition, but as in any sport/ game, this year's winner may not be the same as next year because people change and improve.

[Molis]

I am glad we are getting rid of it, and not because it made other students "feel bad" like the article tries to push.

It was basically 10+ students that all had straight As, and the one that was Valedictorian gobbled up the most AP classes relevant or not.

It had nothing to do with intelligence, or being a great student.
I beat our Valedictorian in an exam based trivia contest and I was an average 3.5 ish student.
He just managed to get into every single AP class offered to boost his GPA.

[Ozzyorcborne]

Ive always heard of Valedictorians being selected in College and University. Never on a high school level because, lets face it, graduating from high school amounts to nothing and isnt really an achievement worth celebrating.

[Dug]

Personally I always found GPA dick measuring contests to be dumb but generally the people with the highest ones are intelligent and I don't really see anything wrong with rewarding them. The system though does have it's problems. Specifically how it can turn some people into neurotic messes. I dated my classes valedictorian briefly and she was always mega stressed over grades and not being good enough for the ivy league school she got into. Especially since those schools are just filled with other #1s.

Also dated the salutatorian of the class under me and she was pretty similar with the stress of GPA and fighting for the #1 spot.