30yr Black woman called cops for help, gets fatally shot in front of her kids

[Arewn]

Unnecessary use of force in a situation that could have, and should have, been handled without fatality.

That said... come on, race? Really this again?
Given the other factors, I don't think race is playing much, if any, role here.

[d33jay]

She was told to get back and was wielding a weapon.

It's unfortunate she couldn't have just listened. The shooting was justified.

[Tikaru]

"Two cops pepper spray a pregnant black woman"

I'm sure the people saying stupid shit like "cops never shoot white people" would accept this outcome.

Since she wouldn't have died, this thread probably wouldn't be here.

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Should the police be worried about the optics? Or about handling a situation with the appropriate amount of force?

Doesn't look like they're capable of either.

[Spectral]

Hmm yet strange how yet again its in the US and a black person ... I mean come on .... its way beyond "coincidence" by now.

No kidding. The way the media reports on it makes it seem like it's always black people even though the data doesn't actually back that - obviously there's not a coincidence, but a concerted effort by journalistic outlets to push racial grievances. The question is why.

[Elbob]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN19717R

If only there were non-leathal means to deal with someone wielding a knife...

http://billingsgazette.com/news/loca...f7c852bd5.html

Some kind of, I don't know...

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...eet_by_police/

...device that could somehow stop someone without killing them...

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime...-a3544741.html

...with traditional firearms.

Oh well...

1) outside in the open on the street
2) outside in the open on the street
3) outside in the open on the street
4) taser never used and the man was talked down aka taser not relevant

Swapping weapons when already confronted is very dangerous. Resorting to hand to hand combat is also dangerous. Again they came entered the residence on a possible burglary call meaning it could be an active crime scene with armed suspects... Could this have been resolved in other ways? Probably, including without a death on either side but to demonize the police in this situation, where we know so little... ehhhh.

I read this and think "When a cop tells you to do something... you should do it". Officers are actually there to help people and choosing not to listen to them or brandish weapons just puts all parties on edge and at risk to making hasty judgement calls. Have we seen shootings regardless... yeah and those officers are without a doubt in the wrong and should be punished but if you comply with officer commands the probability of you getting hurt or shot is crazy small (like shoulda played the lottery small)

[Dextroden]

Should the police be worried about the optics? Or about handling a situation with the appropriate amount of force?

There is no appropriate amount of force. That's why Daelak says let them be stabbed.

[Canpinter]

"Two cops pepper spray a pregnant black woman"

I'm sure the people saying stupid shit like "cops never shoot white people" would accept this outcome.

"and they got their blood all over her floor and knife" i mean do people really think getting into close melee with a person armed with a knife, when your only drawn weapon is a can of pepper spray is a good idea? and before i get the predictable response "training" is not some magic word that suddenly makes cops able to do any amazing kung fu disarming moves you say on tv.

[Orcs]

No wonder people don't trust the police in some places. Why are they so trigger happy?

A women with mental health issues has a knife when you approach her... You'd have shot sooner.

[Dextroden]

Since she wouldn't have died, this thread probably wouldn't be here.

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Doesn't look like they're capable of either.

Lol! That is refreshing you believe they wouldn't have been called racist.

[Haloswin]

More details...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.b09277d7daa0

On the recording, which officials said was captured by dashboard video cameras in the patrol cars, officers can be heard discussing a woman who had previously made “all these weird statements.” Neither officer is identified, and police say all names have been removed from the recording.

The recording captured officers speaking to a woman about an Xbox that she said was taken. Seconds after that interaction, however, the encounter suddenly escalates and the officers can be heard shouting at the woman to back away.

“Hey, get back! Get back!” an officer shouts, a call echoed by the other officer, before a volley of gunshots are heard.
_____

But yeah, they had all the time in the world to react....

[Dextroden]

"and they got their blood all over her floor and knife" i mean do people really think getting into close melee with a person armed with a knife, when your only drawn weapon is a can of pepper spray is a good idea? and before i get the predictable response "training" is not some magic word that suddenly makes cops able to do any amazing kung fu disarming moves you say on tv.

What are you talking about? Everyone on this board is a master of krav mags out and can deflect bullets with their mind.

[justandulas]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/mia...ing/index.html

It's the truth. I'm sorry your victim complex wants to fight the man and think otherwise. Give police the respect they deserve. Treat them with authority, and they will treat you better. I've been arrested before, as long as you play the yes sir or no sir card, listen to what they say, and move slowly as to not give them a REASON to feel in danger... and you'll be fine.

Or you could play the victim with them, act violent, brandish weapons, and end up where this poor woman did. She shouldn't have brandished a kitchen knife at the officers and come at them. You can clearly hear on the audio they ask her to step back a dozen times and she keeps walking towards them.

And spoiler alert: Pepper spray and stun guns don't always drop people like they do in tv and movies. Suspects can still move and lunge with a weapon and cops body armor does NOT protect against stabbing objects.

I get it that it's the cool thing to do to demonize police in today's misguided society, and yes some cases like the one from last week are absolutely wrong and the cops should be charged (That was one case I side with my black american brothers and sisters. That was BS) but MOST cop shootings are justified.

Could police training use a revamp? Absolutely. But so could the way we treat police in society. It's a two way street; cops need to respect citizens more, and WE need to do our part to report criminals more and respect the police. They do a crappy job no one wants to do and get paid very little for it, and on top of all that they are now targets over some ridiculous victim-hood complex in certain cultures in America.

[Rhaide]

"and they got their blood all over her floor and knife" i mean do people really think getting into close melee with a person armed with a knife, when your only drawn weapon is a can of pepper spray is a good idea? and before i get the predictable response "training" is not some magic word that suddenly makes cops able to do any amazing kung fu disarming moves you say on tv.

Fully agree, they were right to fire on her.... unfortunately, this is still a horrible tragedy. It would be much easier on everyone if she were some evil person, but she was a mentally ill person in a bad circumstance. Those close to her see her death as a tragedy and nothing else - to them, she was murdered by people who didn't understand her. Remember - everyone is loved by SOMEONE. Any death is a tragedy to someone. I'm infinitely sad that this happened, but the reality was that the situation was handled correctly.

[dvaz]

Lyles' family said three of her four children were inside the home at the time of the shooting.

4 children and pregnant with the 5th..... holy fuck.

Guess they are about to win the ghetto lottery.

[Findlyn]

This is how I expect a civilian with a gun to act, not a trained police officer. Do they not carry pepper spray or other less lethal means to take someone down? The gun shouldn't be the go to option. She was pregnant too wtf...

Why are people surprised that if you present a lethal threat to anyone, cop or not, you are likely to be responded in kind? You act like cops are super natural humans, they are just like you and me. Except they have had all of 6 months training, most of which is more about laws than some super elite ninja training people seem to think they get.

Are there some bad cops out there, yeah. But I would bet most of the people complaining about cops, are the same type of people that complain about woman not being encouraged into STEM fields, and they have a gender studies degree. You think cops are bad, then go out and be a cop! Stop complaining about bad cops and become the good cop. But you wont, because its a horribly stressful and difficult job that deals with the worst of our society a lot of the time.

And dont say "if you don't want to do it, then don't take the job!". Someone has to do it, and this type of job will make the friendliest person into a confrontational person if you are doing your job right after a period of time.

[triplesdsu]

A lot of people are arguing about whether or not she should've been stopped and disarmed but that's a total distraction from the actual conversation. Why did the cops use DEADLY force against a woman who could've easily been stopped with non-lethal weapons? Why did the cops RESPOND this way to the threat they were presented.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXv2Pjtc3Zk

This video is anecdotal but I think the juxtaposition helps illustrate the problem. EVERYONE has a subconscious bias. We have to hold cops to a higher standard than the average person because they are armed. We need to train police to overcome their subconscious biases.

A knife is a deadly weapon. As such you also respond with deadly force. In a situation with multiple officers one could potentially use a taser with lethal cover but its not mandatory. Depending on how the situation played out, they may not have had the time to downgrade/transition or even have one. Ive had a taser for all of 6 months in my 10 year career.

[Theodarzna]

So how did they pump her full of lead? Did they shoot her in the head? Was she lying in her bed?

If she hadn't had the knife would she have a new lease of life?

Its sad the kids were witness to the death of a woman with a record of mental illness.

But you stir a hornets nest when you greet the cops with a knife and prior arrest.

[McFuu]

Some of this is half-true, but it's mostly an exaggeration. The work Roland Fryer did makes it pretty clear that police are not more likely to shoot black suspects. They are more likely to use various other forms of force, but only by ~20%, which doesn't look anything like the exaggerated caricature of racist cops that you're portraying here.

I believe it's cops are more likely to profile and use excessive force against black suspects, but, cops are more likely to shoot white suspects.
Probably due to the police being slightly more cautious with black suspects that keeps them from actually shooting them.

I think events like this bring up a huge discussion that needs to happen in the US. If we expect the police to go above and beyond procedure to handle an armed suspect, putting their personal safety unduly on the line, are we ready to foot the bill for training and higher salaries for these officers who are generally already under paid.

[Better]

Even better in close quarters with a dull blade and wallss for her to jam the knife in if she tried to slash or stab.

You're making an assumption, not only on that the knife was dull, (of which you have only a hypothesis, no solid evidence to support.) but also that somehow the police were given some sort of ninja training. They are trained in hand to hand combat, but no officer is willingly going to put themselves in a situation where they have to disarm somebody with a knife in hand to hand combat in a real world scenario.

"and wallss for her to jam the knife in" What is this? Do you live in a strange kung-fu world where weapons constantly are getting stuck in objects? Do you think an officer shouldn't worry about weapons because; "Well they might get stuck in a wall if my attacker misses me."? Next are you going to say they should have used their superior Warrior Spirit to forcefully disarm her or something?

I'm still in the boat that insufficient evidence is present to make a judgement, but god that's a leap to make.

[shrunken]

Your argument kinda falls flat on its face. Most people will say both problems should be addressed.

fortunately for me I'm responding to someone from overseas who thinks it's a black thing, and I have no problem with the story in the OP & I'm glad no officers were injured by the knife wielding assailant.