30yr Black woman called cops for help, gets fatally shot in front of her kids

[Tstr88]

My apologies, I misunderstood your previous post then.

The second report give us a bit more details of what happened - although I'm sure we wouldn't get the full picture for a while:
- The police entered the house and was talking to her normally.
- Something happened. After this, we heard one officer repeatedly yelling "Get back". The second report said she was armed with two knives, so I assume this is when she started being hostile. They DID try to opt for safe & a less lethal option (in case people thought shooting was their first choice), given that one officer told other "Tase her". Too bad, the reply was "I don't have a taser".
- Police Chief confirmed that neither of them were armed with a Taser, and that SPD officers are given option of taser, pepper spray OR baton. I *guess* they had the batons?
- After 15 seconds of yelling "Get back", shoots were fired.

While it didn't say that she refused to obey the command, I'd expect that the cops wouldn't be yelling at her to get back for so long if she backed away, would they?

Fair enough. I did not see a second report, only read the primary link + video. I gleaned from her family member that she "was scared they'd take her children away" that she may have become defensive thinking they wanted to take her kids. Which would be a poor choice on her part. However, I would still disagree that firing at her is necessary unless she actually rushed them. Unless they legitimately thought she might stabbed her own children. One of the biggest faults in policing is their own refusal to simply disengage and let that person cool off. They literally never do this unless they think the person will either harm themselves or have a hostage they might harm.

[Zoibert the Bear]

because the cops just totally drove up to the area and decided "hey, lets just shoot the first random black person we see". Don't be a fucking idiot.

Also, hate to point this out, but the fact that she was pregnant is 100% completely irrelevant.

To be honest, there's a few irrelevant things:

- Woman
- Black
- Pregnant

Relevant:

- Has weapon
- Previous trouble with police
- Mental unstability

But people will target whatever suits their agenda. You know the drill mate, @Tennisace is a known troll, he's just very good at staying in character.

[Protean]

It's called using your brain, moron. You know? Using evidence and what you know to assess the situation before you ever walk into it? The caller is a distraught woman, scared of a burglary. Thus, if you answer the call and it's a distraught armed woman, you can assume she most likely is the caller and thus you should diffuse before firing. But you know, that would require you to actually have a brain and on top of that, actually use it.

It's no utopia kiddo. As a police officer, you're expected to keep the peace and shit is dangerous. If your main goal is "just make it home alive" and your own safety then you're in wrong line of work as a cop. They are better suited to something nice and safe, like maybe sell insurance, perhaps sell cupcakes?

In the old days, cops would have just batoned the bitch to the ground and a swift kick to the head. But this new weak millennial generation of police are just not built for it. Constantly scared and have no concept how to defend themselves without a firearm. Someone can wave a cane at them from 100 yards away and they'll shoot them down and go THANK GOD HE MIGHT HAVE ALMOST CLOSED IN ON ME AND THEN HOW COULD I POSSIBLY DEFEND MYSELF IN THIS SITUATION THAT HE CALLED ME TO IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Good, now I know I can discount everything else you say.

[HumbleDuck]

No, no actually it dosnt and there are hundreds of examples of cops being stabbed by civilians while attempting to draw a side arm pal. Do some googling.

If civilians armed with knives kill armed and trained officers on a regular basis, I'm sorry but the police department needs a serious revamp ...
You are making judgment as if policemen are normal people on the street armed with a handgun. They should be trained and they should be able to arrest a 30 YO pregnant woman carrying a knife without the use of fire arms.
Even if she was a 7ft 500lb UFC champion, they should have called for backup instead of opening fire.

[Bryntrollian]

I'm thinking the officers will come out clear on this one.

[pseudoJ]

Probably shouldn't refuse to drop your weapon if you want police to take precautions about your safety.

- GASP -

Probably should be able to tell to some degree how dangerous/likely to attack the person is... well if you are qualified to be a police officer -- and it seems most of the US clowns aren't.

Not to mention that 2 experienced police man should be able to disarm a (presumably pregnant) woman armed with a knife by other then lethal means. Don't take me wrong a knife is a dangerous weapon and on a shorter range it is actually pretty difficult to defend yourself if your gun is in your holster. However it should still be possible to use a Taser gun or pepper spray. Given the presence of young children the police should have try to take non-lethal action against their mother even if it could mean a higher risk to themselves -- in the end (I know it sounds cold and disrespectful, however stripped off the emotional aspect it is true) the risk is part of the job -- in order to save them from the traumatic experience (yes, having your mother shot down by two guys is a traumatic experience, not to mention that if those two guys are supposed to represent the law it doesn't exactly help you become a model citizen with trust in the system).


That said it likely had nothing to do with her race -- she had a certain profile and lived in (based on the description) a bit problematic area. The issue is US clown police is not trained to handle such situations.

[Zathrendar]

No doubt more badly reported crap turned into flamebaiting clickbait to enrage braindead "progressives" who can't be arsed to research a thing but want a "race war" narrative so that they can become further gripped in their zealous paranoia about waaaaycism. Retractions to come when no one even cares about the story anymore.

[pseudoJ]

No reason to risk the physical safety of either officer unnecessarily. I don't think they needed to shoot her, but whatever happens to you after you refuse a police order to drop your weapon is on you.

What about the fact that there are 3 young children present at the scene? Nah? Worth the (almost certain) mental damage to them compared to potential (and I am going to argue that in this case not so high) chance of harming a trained officer who 1) Should have the means and training to stop her 2) Are in this line of work by choice*

* No I am not saying that they should go out and let themselves be killed, but they shouldn't shoot to kill on first sight of danger either.

[Noobasaurus Rex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYwd0Wus5Ik

[pseudoJ]

No doubt more badly reported crap turned into flamebaiting clickbait to enrage braindead "progressives" who can't be arsed to research a thing but want a "race war" narrative so that they can become further gripped in their zealous paranoia about waaaaycism. Retractions to come when no one even cares about the story anymore.

Hmm that doesn't really explain the portion of people who find these incidents poorly handled due to lack of properly trained police force rather than this race crap, does it?

I find it easier to believe that if were to look closer there would be similar incidents involving casualties of all races -- albeit only some of them are "juicy" enough for the media to report on.

[Zathrendar]

Hmm that doesn't really explain the portion of people who find these incidents poorly handled due to lack of properly trained police force rather than this race crap, does it?

I find it easier to believe that if were to look closer there would be similar incidents involving casualties of all races -- albeit only some of them are "juicy" enough for the media to report on.

Why would I intend to explain something I didn't set out to explain?

You may find it even easier to look up statistics on cop fatalities adjusted for severity of crime and demographic proportions, in which case whites quite easily pull ahead of blacks.

Cop handling of it is separate to whether they have some kind of agenda to pick on blacks, which is blatant bullshit.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Seems like there is a big difference between "displayed a knife" and "tried to stab the officers"

I wonder which one it actually was, because if she was multiple feet away from them with a knife then it's ridiculous that she was shot.

Have cops always been this big of pussies?

- - - Updated - - -



Being a pregnant woman is a completely relevant factor rofl. It means not only is she physically weaker than the cops, but because she is pregnant she is also slower.

Why must a woman be weaker than a man? Lol, what a misogynist.

[Protean]

Seems like there is a big difference between "displayed a knife" and "tried to stab the officers"

I wonder which one it actually was, because if she was multiple feet away from them with a knife then it's ridiculous that she was shot.

Have cops always been this big of pussies?

- - - Updated - - -



Being a pregnant woman is a completely relevant factor rofl. It means not only is she physically weaker than the cops, but because she is pregnant she is also slower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js0haocH4-o That's "a few feet away".

Lot of people here seem to think a knife attack is one long telegraphed stab, and not rapid wild swings for which there's no defense in close quarters.

[pseudoJ]

To be honest, there's a few irrelevant things:

- Black

Relevant:

- Has weapon
- Previous trouble with police
- Mental unstability
- Woman
- Pregnant

Here I fixed it for you.

1) As much as certain vocal groups would like to make you believe the opposite -- there is a difference between men and women. In most cases in body mass and strength at least. Now sure there are exception -- even a tiny lady when trained can down an untrained gorilla type guy -- but I don't think that was the case here
2) Pregnant not relevant? Excuse me? Is your moral compass completely fucked up or something? Well. at least the one the cops could be be functioning. The unborn child kinda didn't do anything you know? But I do agree that it MAY be irrelevant -- in cases (which could also be this one) where it's simply not recognisable that the woman is pregnant. Even then it is not relevant just for the resolution of the situation at the moment, it still kinda makes the outcome more tragic.

- - - Updated - - -

Why must a woman be weaker than a man? Lol, what a misogynist.

Coz evolution and empirical evidence. Yes there are exception and yes, my sarcasm detector may not be tuned finely enough in this case.

[Protean]

Here I fixed it for you.

1) As much as certain vocal groups would like to make you believe the opposite -- there is a difference between men and women. In most cases in body mass and strength at least. Now sure there are exception -- even a tiny lady when trained can down an untrained gorilla type guy -- but I don't think that was the case here
2) Pregnant not relevant? Excuse me? Is your moral compass completely fucked up or something? Well. at least the one the cops could be be functioning. The unborn child kinda didn't do anything you know? But I do agree that it MAY be irrelevant -- in cases (which could also be this one) where it's simply not recognisable that the woman is pregnant. Even then it is not relevant just for the resolution of the situation at the moment, it still kinda makes the outcome more tragic.

You're having trouble discerning "relevance to danger" vs "morally relevant".

As soon as you introduce a knife gender becomes obsolete, because she might be as strong as a weak guy. Pregnancy does NOT add to the threat, thus it's not relevant in the discussion you're replying to.

Even then, keeping a weapon drawn against police officers is the woman endangering the child, not the officers endangering it.

[pseudoJ]

Why would I intend to explain something I didn't set out to explain?

You may find it even easier to look up statistics on cop fatalities adjusted for severity of crime and demographic proportions, in which case whites quite easily pull ahead of blacks.

Cop handling of it is separate to whether they have some kind of agenda to pick on blacks, which is blatant bullshit.

Oh I don't deny that black people may be more of a problematic group statistically. Although again I would argue that problem here is more complex -- the issue is not the race, the issue is the environment. Poor people, people who live in ghettos and certain city areas / communities are more problematic, historically it just happened to be black people, however I believe that if you compared with white people from the same environment there wouldn't be much of a difference.

Frankly I don't care enough to actually do this kind of a research so it is just a "feeling" based on a similar problem we have with one specific minority in my country (In that they tend not to uphold the law more often).

[Alnilam81]

What pisses me off about this is the "in front of the kids" nonsense. She is unstable and has 2 knives according to reports, they should be praising officers for potentially saving the kids, but no, it's all race/woman/pregnant/think of the children clickbait. Crazy idea but maybe don't do dumb shit and you won't get shot, shock horror....

[tikcol]

An insane individual holding a knife, screaming and calling the cops the KKK while they're investigating a burglary got shot.

Why isn't this hard to believe?

[Deleted]

What pisses me off about this is the "in front of the kids" nonsense. She is unstable and has 2 knives according to reports, they should be praising officers for potentially saving the kids, but no, it's all race/woman/pregnant/think of the children clickbait. Crazy idea but maybe don't do dumb shit and you won't get shot, shock horror....

Other countries have mentally unstable people. Other countries value the life of ethnic minorities/the poor so they don't generally shoot them.

The problem here is that you people have a cultural disposition towards the use of unnecessary and excessive violence. Your every solution to every problem is more violence, and to blame every other conceivable cause of every problem on something other than the use of excessive violence. It would be humorous to listen to were the consequences not so serious.

[pseudoJ]

You're having trouble discerning "relevance to danger" vs "morally relevant".

As soon as you introduce a knife gender becomes obsolete, because she might be as strong as a weak guy. Pregnancy does NOT add to the threat, thus it's not relevant in the discussion you're replying to.

Even then, keeping a weapon drawn against police officers is the woman endangering the child, not the officers endangering it.

Your arguments are partially correct. The fact that she had a knife certainly introduced a risk. It possible (although improbable I would say) that the officer could have asses the women to by enough of a physical threat. Yes the woman was endangering the child. You are also missing/are wrong in other aspects.

Pregnancy is relevant (and so is the presence of children or any other people in the scene). The officers goal is to resolve the situation with minimal damage. In this case the outcome of their "minimal damage" are two dead (the woman and her unborn child) and three mentally scarred children. There is of course a chance that this was the only possible course of action however it is very had to belive since a simple taser gun could have minimise the mental damage to those children and save at least one life (not really sure how unborn babies deal with mother getting shot by a taser).
What is more likely is that the officers didn't chose to minimise the damage but chose the absolutely safest course of actions for them -- which to be honest is understandable from a human point of view, however it is not compatible with their line of work.

A nice comparison comes to mind... How often do you see fire fighters decide to leave the people in a burning building because the danger is too high? It has to be really flipping high for such decision to be made. The fact that there is a danger doesn't mean you don't look for a solution which saves lives -- even though it's always going to be safer for the fire fighters not to go into that building.