Forum drama Ornyx vs. Jeff Kaplan! Who wins?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Oh he is not a developer? SO less reason for him to tell us how to play the game.
Repetition is only good if you are addicted to the gameplay...and the gameplay of WoW is mediocre at it's best. It's not even a action game.
As for "catering to people that don't actually want to play the game after LFR", i don't know if you noticed but THAT is the majority of people who play WoW nowadays. And who's fault is that? The developers. Nobody else.

There is zero incentive to do higher difficulties and guess why. Because Blizzard refuses to give unique prestige rewards to the ones who do it.
Trying to create a Utopia where everyone is equal and happy is bullshit. No prestige, no locked content behind skill tests.

GG

No incentive to continue playing. All for the sake of "entitlement to everything because i also pay for this game"

The fact that you claim that there's "zero incentive to do higher difficulties" just proves how ignorant you are on the subject.

Meanwhile, the number of players raiding properly has remained pretty damned stable over the years. And your statement that there's no "locked content behind skill tests" is just pure bullshit. It's called DOWNING BOSSES THAT REQUIRE SKILL AND TEAMWORK, something you simply do not get from LFR. Are you really speaking from a standpoint of experience here? I'm doubting it seeing just how wrong you are...

Unique rewards from Normal+ raids include but are not limited to; Titles, better gear, higher chance at legendaries, rare mounts, 100% mythic mounts, being able to do meta achievements, Ahead of the Curve achievements. The prestige among raiders comes from beating the content whilst it's relevant, which always held true. Not sure wtf you're smoking to believe that this ended with the introduction of LFR, especially considering the fact that we've seen some of the games most unforgiving encounters since its introduction.

It was ALWAYS the case that the vast VAST majority of players didn't play the game beyond solo content, whilst a small percentage felt the will to dedicate themselves to proper raiding. You being blind to that fact because you've got a hardon for hating on LFR doesn't change shit.

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If there is zero incentive then why doesn't everyone stop at normal or LFR? Could it be because your argument is silly hyperbole?

These people ignore facts to support their own agenda.

"Zero incentive" to Shadowpunkz perhaps, which makes him part of the problem. Everyone I know that's a proper raider, still has the need for proper raiding and would sooner quit playing than settle for LFR. LFR simply gives the 99% a chance at seeing watered down versions of raids, and justifes the resources spent on raids as a whole.

Even I would quit if I couldn't raid properly and would be forced to just do LFR, and I'm a no-lifer.

[FelPlague]

A while ago we had a thread about Community Manager Ornyx calling a player out on the WoW forums for "trolling"


http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...he-smack-down!

A lot of forum members cheered for Ornyx (not me though).


Something similar happened on the Overwatch forums, involving game director Jeff Kaplan. Now watch how he resolves the situation:
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...e-kaplanverse/



After a bit of drama:



Like a baws! At least there are still some people at Blizzard who know how it's done. Can we haz a Jeff Kaplan clone for the WoW team, pls?

to be fair, a Cm calling you out compared to jeff fucking kaplan is a very different level, also ornyx ddi say sorry

[ro9ue]

Jeff Kaplan always wins.

A more even match would be Jeff Kaplan vs Chuck Norris.

[Deleted]

If there is zero incentive then why doesn't everyone stop at normal or LFR? Could it be because your argument is silly hyperbole?

Everyone stops at LFR and Normal. Only about 15% of the population do Heroic and Mythic

The fact that you claim that there's "zero incentive to do higher difficulties" just proves how ignorant you are on the subject.

Meanwhile, the number of players raiding properly has remained pretty damned stable over the years. And your statement that there's no "locked content behind skill tests" is just pure bullshit. It's called DOWNING BOSSES THAT REQUIRE SKILL AND TEAMWORK, something you simply do not get from LFR. Are you really speaking from a standpoint of experience here? I'm doubting it seeing just how wrong you are...

Unique rewards from Normal+ raids include but are not limited to; Titles, better gear, higher chance at legendaries, rare mounts, 100% mythic mounts, being able to do meta achievements, Ahead of the Curve achievements. The prestige among raiders comes from beating the content whilst it's relevant, which always held true. Not sure wtf you're smoking to believe that this ended with the introduction of LFR, especially considering the fact that we've seen some of the games most unforgiving encounters since its introduction.

It was ALWAYS the case that the vast VAST majority of players didn't play the game beyond solo content, whilst a small percentage felt the will to dedicate themselves to proper raiding. You being blind to that fact because you've got a hardon for hating on LFR doesn't change shit.
.

You are telling me the pretige of raiding comes from...simply doing it. That is bad design in my eyes, people should be showered with unique prestige rewards.
People should be glowing pink and leaving a trail of flowers and rainbows in major cities.
Item level is just a number (no one cares about numbers) not only that it is useless unless you want to do said "harder content".
Titles...yeah right, everyone cares a bout a title.

People want nerd gasms. Blizzard forgot along the way how to give nerd gasms to players because nowadays everyone is equal. There is transmog and everyone have access to all content in LFR. So now...there is no chance of giving players prestige.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Everyone stops at LFR and Normal. Only about 15% of the population do Heroic and Mythic



You are telling me the pretige of raiding comes from...simply doing it. That is bad design in my eyes, people should be showered with unique prestige rewards.
People should be glowing pink and leaving a trail of flowers and rainbows in major cities.
Item level is just a number (no one cares about numbers) not only that it is useless unless you want to do said "harder content".
Titles...yeah right, everyone cares a bout a title.

People want nerd gasms. Blizzard forgot along the way how to give nerd gasms to players because nowadays everyone is equal. There is transmog and everyone have access to all content in LFR. So now...there is no chance of giving players nerdgasms and prestige.

Bullshit, the reality of the game proves you wrong. You don't even have correct percentages fueling your outrage.

I'm done trying to explain the reality of raiding as it has been since Classic to delusional special snowflakes that clearly aren't even speaking from a point of experience as they claim that LFR-players have access to the same shit that Normal+ or even Mythic raiders gets. Moronic sentiment to say the least.

As a REAL raider that's actually raiding right NOW, I'm getting what I need from proper raids and LFR is irrelevant to me in every way. Period.

[Deleted]

New expansion leaked

world of overcraft
kaplan vs ornyx - battle of the titans
preorder now 80$ and get special ingame pet hoelinka

[Chemii]

It's tragic that they backtrack, a lot of these nuggets need at least a wake up call - but in most scenarios responding like this simply makes the issue worse.

[Deleted]

Bullshit, the reality of the game proves you wrong. You don't even have correct percentages fueling your outrage.

I'm done trying to explain the reality of raiding as it has been since Classic to delusional special snowflakes that clearly aren't even speaking from a point of experience as they claim that LFR-players have access to the same shit that Normal+ or even Mythic raiders gets. Moronic sentiment to say the least.

As a REAL raider that's actually raiding right NOW, I'm getting what I need from proper raids and LFR is irrelevant to me in every way. Period.

Yes LFR players have access to the same shit of Normal+

The only thing they are missing is better numbers (ilvl) which is useless because ilvl is only good to defeat harder difficulties, useless for anything else.
Maybe one mount
And ofcourse they are missing the difficulty of it. But that isn't a reward of any kind. That's as if i said "i'm going to swim across the Atlantic" "Why? Because is difficult. Thats my reward" -___-

I believe in snowflake syndrome. I believe it makes you more addicted to the game and i believe it makes people continue playing the game.

[Eggroll]

to be fair, a Cm calling you out compared to jeff fucking kaplan is a very different level, also ornyx ddi say sorry

The point of the thread was not to call out Ornyx. More like showcasing the kind of attitude I would expect from Blizzard if their published core values are anything to go by.

It speaks for their culture, which is something I value highly.

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Isn't Kaplan also the vice president of the company?

According to Wikipedia he is.

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It's tragic that they backtrack, a lot of these nuggets need at least a wake up call - but in most scenarios responding like this simply makes the issue worse.

Why do you think so? I think the contrary is the case.

[Ielenia]

Like a baws! At least there are still some people at Blizzard who know how it's done. Can we haz a Jeff Kaplan clone for the WoW team, pls?

Oh, please. If anything, we need more people like Ornyx in the team replying to players. Too much self-entitlement in this game's player base, people with barely anything accomplished in the game complaining of "there's nothing to do in WoW"... Players like that deserve a proverbial slap in the face every now and then when their tantrums get too loud. Maybe that way, someday, this game will have a better community.

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Why do you think so? I think the contrary is the case.

Like a baby loudly crying for that particular toy or food at the supermarket when the mother or father says 'no' but eventually gives in to make the baby stop crying, grows up to be a little kid that cries loudly when their parents deny them what they want, only for the parents to cave in to make the kid stop crying, eventually grows up to be what kind of adult?

I.E. You do not teach lessons by caving in to a crying child's demands. You only make the attitude worse that way.

[Gadzooks]

Like a baws! At least there are still some people at Blizzard who know how it's done. Can we haz a Jeff Kaplan clone for the WoW team, pls?

The irony here is that Jeff got noticed by Pardo and hired onto the WoW team for rants WAY worse at Everquest devs, as Tigole.

And, giving away a year's sub is a bad precedent - now forum trolls are going to try and get the same prize, for trolling Kaplan.

Should he have done it? No. But he did, and he owned it, and apologized, so we can see SOME devs at Blizzard can learn from their mistakes. Ion, are you paying attention?

Now, all you forum trolls can return to gloating. Like it matters.

[Deleted]

Yes LFR players have access to the same shit of Normal+

The only thing they are missing is better numbers (ilvl) which is useless because ilvl is only good to defeat harder difficulties, useless for anything else.
Maybe one mount
And ofcourse they are missing the difficulty of it. But that isn't a reward of any kind. That's as if i said "i'm going to swim across the Atlantic" "Why? Because is difficult. Thats my reward" -___-

I believe in snowflake syndrome. I believe it makes you more addicted to the game and i believe it makes people continue playing the game.

Ok pal, tell us your idea of reward then. What do you want from heroic and myt raiding in your ideal WoW? Maybe you are way more creative then me or the whole Blizzard team.

In all honesty, i can't think anything esle except 1) better gear (obviously) 2) cosmetic reward such as mount, pet, possibly trasmog stuff? (but we already have those thing for high end level content)

[Zatachi]

Look, i dont have anything against giving a snarky remark(?) but

DON'T USE META-KNOWLEDGE

You can have a tournament of wits all you want but if you use powers other than your wits you lose by default.

Both higher ups did it, Jeff saw he didn't win fair and square and apologized.

If you go down to play the same game you have to do it with the same rules, otherwise its cheating.

[Heladys]

Entitlement is what WoW is all about nowadays. "I also pay the game, i want all rewards"

And if someone mentions anything about "no LFR", "unique rewards", "prestige rewards" everyone calls him a snowflake.

This forums is Entitled VS Snowflakes

Make no mistake, there are entitled man-babies on both sides. Some want everything handed to them for nothing, while others want all the toys only for them.

Both are useless.

[Deleted]

Ok pal, tell us your idea of reward then. What do you want from heroic and myt raiding in your ideal WoW? Maybe you are way more creative then me or the whole Blizzard team.

In all honesty, i can't think anything esle except 1) better gear (obviously) 2) cosmetic reward such as mount, pet, possibly trasmog stuff? (but we already have those thing for high end level content)

Thats the problem...i have no idea

Because transmog is now in the game and there are 4 difficulty levels instead of just 1.

So that prestige of looking cool (no transmog) is gone
And the prestige of seeing the content is gone (LFR)

So i have no idea how anymore to give prestige to players.

[cuafpr]

CM vs Game director of course their responses would be different.....

[Danuru]

Why is literally everyone ignoring what could possibly be the most important part? The player who incited Jeff actually apologized first. And not only did he apologize, he apologized in a calm, well-thought out manner. For those of you thinking this opens up a can of worms, do you really think the average exploiting troll has the capability to suck up his pride and apologize in such manner?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against Ornyx either. But to call Kaplan a "backtracking pussy ass bitch", or whatever juvenile insults your minds can come up with, is not only unfair, but shows a great lack of tact and critical thinking on your part. In the end of the day, we're comparing apples and oranges here, two completely different situations when you get down to it.

[Kynario]

Jeff is the best. Honestly. The way he's been handling Overwatch from day 1, the amount of love and passion he has for it - I find it very inspiring. More devs should be like him , and I know there's a ton more great content yet to come to Overwatch with him in charge.

Agreed. Love Jeff so much and respect him a lot.

[Sixnalia]

Jeff's apology was in response to the guy taking his time to try and live chat with Blizzard support to convey a formal apology to him.

So the shitposter realized he did wrong, tried his best to contact Jeff, and Jeff took the time to read over his apology, reasoning for his frustration(apparently it was about widowmaker), and then Jeff took the time to write him a personal reply also apologizing for his own behavior when he bit back.

I think what happened was great. One of the complainers finally gained a better perspective, was mature enough to try and apologize.

Jeff came back and demonstrated not only maturity, but showed his appreciation to a player who learned from his behavior and apparently gave constructive feedback instead of the empty insults.

Good on them, in my opinion.

As for Ornyx, I can understand that reply. I believe he elaborated on it too. Saying there's no content in WoW is pretty much false. There's always something else you can do. He went on to say, "There's no content FOR ME". Which can easily be true.

Sure the FOR ME is usually implied, but it is never normally presented that way in those types of threads.

*shrug*

[Deathquoi]

Everyone stops at LFR and Normal. Only about 15% of the population do Heroic and Mythic



You are telling me the pretige of raiding comes from...simply doing it. That is bad design in my eyes, people should be showered with unique prestige rewards.
People should be glowing pink and leaving a trail of flowers and rainbows in major cities.
Item level is just a number (no one cares about numbers) not only that it is useless unless you want to do said "harder content".
Titles...yeah right, everyone cares a bout a title.

People want nerd gasms. Blizzard forgot along the way how to give nerd gasms to players because nowadays everyone is equal. There is transmog and everyone have access to all content in LFR. So now...there is no chance of giving players prestige.

First of all, the number of players that raid at least heroic is higher than 15%. Secondly, 15% is not nobody. Why are those 15% doing it? You just said there is zero incentive? Are they simply doing it for funsies?