Should Raids Scale More

[-Joker-]

We currently have so many variations on raiding, and each set seems to scale to meet the party. But, would you be in favor of additional scaling up or down? If dungeons are 5M content, what if raids scaled from 6-40 people (Mythic style) based on the number of individuals in the party? I mean they have the tech, and open world mobs already do it. I group up with friends all the time who are lower or higher level to quest with on Broken Isles, and what I see as 109, they see as 102, and the mob gains a little power based on the Group factor.

Now, this is a simple question asked by someone who is NOT a current raider, and who is an extreme casual player. I just figured sometimes, the guild can only get 8 people to raid or 15 to run. Instead of being bound to a set number, why not cater to more guilds allowing them to raid with what they have, and make adjustments where necessary? Just me thinking out loud.

What about you? Are you in favor of extreme scaling? Or is 10/25/M+ good enough?

[Fleckens]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say honestly, first you talk about raid scaling with player numbers, then you speak of level scaling and then you mention 10/25 raiding which is no longer a thing. If you're asking if raids should scale from 6-40 rather than 10-30 though then no I don't think that's necesary, 10 is already at a point where it can be hard to balance mechanics properly so any less would be no good and I don't think there's really any need to go above 30 either as that's already a lot of people.

[-Joker-]

If you're asking if raids should scale from 6-40 rather than 10-30 though then no I don't think that's necesary, 10 is already at a point where it can be hard to balance mechanics properly so any less would be no good and I don't think there's really any need to go above 30 either as that's already a lot of people.

It's true that 10/25/40 have not been a thing for a long time, but they were not horrible styles to have. I'm just wondering if the mechanics were the same, and the only thing to scale was the mob HP, would it be just as fun running 6M as it would 30M? As someone who does not raid currently, and who solos previous expacs, I have to wonder if I could get 5 mates from the guild together, would it be worth it to raid current content. Obviously it's something that won't happen, at least not for a very long time and without good reason.

[Deleted]

No, we had that and it was horrible (in mop) the way it is now is good.

[Aoyi]

I'm not 100% opposed to it for non-mythic raiding, but I'd be worried about the strain on systems caused with bringing back 40 main limits. The spell effects/environments today are way more involved than they were with the original raiding. As far as allowing a lower number to do mythic raiding, I really think mythic will stay 20 man for the foreseeable future simply because of the world first race. That way, everyone is fighting the same fight. Its as even a playing field as they can provide. World first will (hopefully) come down to the best strategies and (barring bugs) every raid that encounters a mythic boss during the same reset should have a fair chance.

[Bowshewicz]

I think that there is an important content gap when you have a group of 6-9 people who all want to play together. It's too many for questing or dungeons and not enough to raid. 6-man raids probably aren't the right solution; a lot of mechanics just don't scale down that far and 6-man doesn't have the "grand" feeling that a raid ought to have. I'd love it if there was some type of content that could accommodate a group of 6 to 9 players.

Scaling above 30 would probably be fine. The current system works, because you can break into 15s and still raid, but it would be nice if everyone could go together.

I believe that Mythic should stay at a fixed number of players, however. At the highest level of play, it becomes more important for Blizzard to provide a more uniform challenge level.

[Lochton]

Yes, should scale more but not down. The smallest group should be 10, highest 40.

[nlc]

I think the current flexibility of heroic and normal difficulties is just fine. I would like to see more flexibility with mythic difficulty though. Firstly cross realm from day 1. Secondly on numbers 14 to 20 or something like that. I understand this creates work in terms of balance but ultimately heroic is too easy and mythic is too much of pain to organise.

[tikcol]

Fix mythic to 20 players, make lfr/normal/heroic scale to 40

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I'm not 100% opposed to it for non-mythic raiding, but I'd be worried about the strain on systems caused with bringing back 40 main limits. The spell effects/environments today are way more involved than they were with the original raiding.

... the strain on systems. Do you still have the same pc you had 10 years ago?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I would like to scale them to 40 for sure, but otherwise no need to discuss anything. You can't have 102s in there, they wouldn't even have artifact traits etc.

[Aoyi]

Fix mythic to 20 players, make lfr/normal/heroic scale to 40

- - - Updated - - -



... the strain on systems. Do you still have the same pc you had 10 years ago?

Blizzard builds WoW to run on much lower systems than most other MMOs, so any feature they add has to keep those older systems in mind. I may play on 5-7 depending on content, but there are definitely people who are running on 1-2 right now who still want to raid.

[Bowshewicz]

I think the current flexibility of heroic and normal difficulties is just fine. I would like to see more flexibility with mythic difficulty though. Firstly cross realm from day 1. Secondly on numbers 14 to 20 or something like that. I understand this creates work in terms of balance but ultimately heroic is too easy and mythic is too much of pain to organise.

This is a good point. I don't like the idea of Flex Mythic that much, but there's a serious chasm between what it takes to finish heroic and what it takes to start Mythic. We're Ahead of the Curve raiders, but we've got a lot of recruiting to do before we set foot into a Mythic instance.

[KrotosTheTank]

It's true that 10/25/40 have not been a thing for a long time, but they were not horrible styles to have. I'm just wondering if the mechanics were the same, and the only thing to scale was the mob HP, would it be just as fun running 6M as it would 30M? As someone who does not raid currently, and who solos previous expacs, I have to wonder if I could get 5 mates from the guild together, would it be worth it to raid current content. Obviously it's something that won't happen, at least not for a very long time and without good reason.

It's not that simple though. In a raid you need 2 tanks. That's already 2 spots gone. Then there's stuff like mechanics that select random group members. In a fight like spellblade, you'd have the entire "raid" of 6 in the frost debuff nearly immediately. The issue is that HP scaling alone isn't the problem, it's a mechanical problem. Take a fight like Gorefiend, is he just supposed to not send anyone below? You're gonna cycle through the group really quick and people will die, fast. Just try 4 manning that fight now even.

Going up to 40 is one thing, but the more useful part of your suggestion of sub 10man just creates too many problems, plus, at what point is this supposed to stop? People will then want 5 man raiding because they only do dungeons, then people will want solo raiding because they don't like people, etc....

[gushDH]

6 man group was never and will never be a raid. 10 man is the extreme minimum, and is still quite low, in my opinion.

[Twdft]

I think the next change in group size should be 6 player dungeons (1/1/4).

[Sencha]

It's not just about scaling like in open world. There are boss mechanics that are very hard to scale with the number of people and still remain on the same level of difficulty.