30yr Black woman called cops for help, gets fatally shot in front of her kids

[Gib Lover]

Shoot on sight?

According to the article in the OP, " “Officers were confronted by a 30-year-old woman armed with a knife,” the department wrote on its web blotter. “Both officers fired their duty weapons, striking the woman."

So basically what? They saw her holding a knife and gunned her down? How is that acceptable.

Tenn don't reply to me, I don't come here for your bait I come to argue with other people that take yours. I thought we had a mutual understanding here

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What do you think happened? one of the officers said, "hey I will shoot this woman because she's black, promise not to turn me in?"

"Sure thing bud, KKK all the way"

"Word"

I think they saw a threat and delt with it they way they were trained to. I don't think race had any thing to do with it, I do think American police are not properly trained to deal with the mentally ill and not trained to deal with knifes the same way the Brits are.

[zenkai]

I think they saw a threat and delt with it they way they were trained to. I don't think race had any thing to do with it, I do think American police are not properly trained to deal with the mentally ill and not trained to deal with knifes the same way the Brits are.

The only time they are trained with knives is when they are cutting a donut in half to split it.

[Flarelaine]

And morality can be very board based on different opinions. Good thing the laws do not always follow a popular opinion on what morality is. The final judgement as to what is immoral is not up to humans unless it is part of a law.

If you think morality is not up to humans, then

"Thou shalt not kill."

Without qualifiers or parameters.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The only time they are trained with knives is when they are cutting a donut in half to split it.

That's probably true. Point is if this happens in Britain if expect them to disarm her as they train to deal with knifes there if it was Canada id expect them to try to talk her down as a cop I know did to a mentally ill homeless man who had a knife.

[Qualia]

More to the point... Tasers, Pepper Spray, Non-lethal ammunition. Why weren't those used? It's completely understandable that you'd be arming yourself against a potential attacker after being robbed. Police could have easily made their presence known before entering as well.

Like... what the fuck happened to de-escalation training?

They actually tried to go for the non-lethal option first, but it wasn't available (in the voice recording, one officer told the other to "Tase her", but the other officer replied "I don't have a taser"). That's why those weren't used. The police chief confirmed that both of them didn't carry a taser, and that an officer has an option to bring either a taser, a pepper spray or a baton as their non-lethal tool. I assume that both of them were bringing batons, which unfortunately isn't all that safe against two knives. And no, she wasn't armed when the police arrived. They talked to her peacefully for a while - I doubt that happened while she was wielding two knives.

[Baelic]

They actually tried to go for the non-lethal option first, but it wasn't available (in the voice recording, one officer told the other to "Tase her", but the other officer replied "I don't have a taser"). That's why those weren't used. The police chief confirmed that both of them didn't carry a taser, and that an officer has an option to bring either a taser, a pepper spray or a baton as their non-lethal tool. I assume that both of them were bringing batons, which unfortunately isn't all that safe against two knives. And no, she wasn't armed when the police arrived. They talked to her peacefully for a while - I doubt that happened while she was wielding two knives.

So we can chalk this all up to a series of poor judgment calls on the people with the real power (the cops). Why haven't they at least been fired?

[Ghostpanther]

If you think morality is not up to humans, then

"Thou shalt not kill."

Without qualifiers or parameters.

And who wrote that and at the same time ordered some communities to be killed. Every single person. Adults, men, women and children. Plus all their livestock? Of course there are parameters and it will differ based on the local laws and opinions. But the law is the only way you deal with it, legally.

[Qualia]

So we can chalk this all up to a series of poor judgment calls on the people with the real power (the cops). Why haven't they at least been fired?

Why? It's a fact that they are inside an apartment - which I presume small - and she suddenly went all aggressive on them with two knives. They did try to tell her to get back repeatedly for 20s while calling for backup. Telling the two armed cops to "Get ready, motherfuckers" in that situation don't help, either - especially when she already had a history of telling cops "You all aren't leaving today" while blocking their way out and brandishing a pair of "giant scissors" before. They managed to successfully de-escalate the situation that time, guess they (or she) weren't as lucky this time. Why should they be fired for not wanting to get stabbed?

If you meant they should be fired for not carrying a taser - I don't know about the rules of US' cops, but from what the Police Chief said, it seems like they can choose one of those options (batons, taser, pepper spray) instead of it being compulsory to use any specific one.

[cubby]

With police shootings being a hot button. You'd think they would be less trigger happy. But then again you don't really think that a couple of white cops got together and said, "Hey wanna see if we can kill a black lady and get away with it?" The white cops shooting white people doesn't make the news. Black cops shooting black people doesn't make the news. This is not the epidemic the media purports it to be.

Even a tiny woman with a knife can cause damage. Little bit of blood on blood and a stabbing becomes a slow death via HIV/AIDS.

As far as "tazing the suspect" that would have looked equally bad. "Two white cops taze pregnant black woman, causing her to miscarry."

But try and look at the possible scenario from the cops' perspective. You have a woman who is clearly and admittedly unhinged, who CALLED the police, and when the police arrive she's wielding a knife she refuses to put down. Protect themselves? Maybe, but what if this unstable woman turned on her children? Why didn't the cops shoot her? Its a lose/lose for them at this point.

We're killing each other in that other thread, but I cannot agree more regarding what you said above. People so consistently fail to realize the difficult situations LEO's are placed in on a daily basis - and even with significant training, those situations are still difficult.

And they were definitely in a no-win situation. Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

I also wish that people (others) would get all the information before making outlandish assumptions.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So we can chalk this all up to a series of poor judgment calls on the people with the real power (the cops). Why haven't they at least been fired?

What poor judgment calls did the police make here? Not picking a taser? The two officers are not to blame here there training and having to pick 1 of 3 was.

[Ghostpanther]

That seems like such a backwards law more so when you think about people with mental illness who might not comply instantly. I'd assume in a lot of cases the person is not charged.

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We don't know she attcked them. She was a threat sure she could have easily attcked them sure but we don't know she attcked them not that she was an threat.

And if they are proven to have a mental illness, they are not charged with a crime and are instead ordered to get treatment.

Some acts do not have to be direct physical attacks to justify deadly force. If a intruder breaks into my home, the instant I find him in my home when I was there, I can lawfully shoot him even if he has not attacked me.

[Gimlix]

How are americans finding this normal and logical?
There are ways to take her down without using a gun you know. I guess not.

[Ghostpanther]

How are americans finding this normal and logical?
There are ways to take her down without using a gun you know. I guess not.

Because we think it is normal to think logically.

[fudgeit]

well, she shouldnt have brought a knife to a gun fight.
*ba dum tss*

on a more serious note: there are other methods of dealing with threats than immediately killing them you know.

Her house was just broken into and she called the police. The police already should have know there maybe a frantic woman on the property. The situation was handled inproperly.

[Wilian]

History with police? Check.
Mental health problems? Check.
Weapon? Check.

Yeah, I wonder why she was shot. Must've been race.

Living in uncivilized shithole filled with practically untrained killer-cops? Check.

(Infracted)

[cubby]

Living in uncivilized shithole filled with practically untrained killer-cops? Check.

Seattle? Washington? You sure you're in the right thread?

- - - Updated - - -

Her house was just broken into and she called the police. The police already should have know there maybe a frantic woman on the property. The situation was handled inproperly.

It was much more complicated than that. When you dumb down the situation, you eliminate key facts that change the entire event.

[Qualia]

How are americans finding this normal and logical?
There are ways to take her down without using a gun you know. I guess not.

I'm living in Singapore - which is extremely peaceful in my opinion, but I find it logical. Normal? Maybe not, but do they have any other valid solution that doesn't involve risking dying (for nothing or for a criminal-in-making)?

Her house was just broken into and she called the police. The police already should have know there maybe a frantic woman on the property. The situation was handled inproperly.

She wasn't frantic at all while they talked to each other, though. Something ticked her at the end, which suddenly escalated into what we got. What else should they do? The officers didn't just shoot her outright the moment she put up the knives. They tried to tell her to get back (repeatedly over a while). They tried to call for additional backups. If she refute to listen and went aggressive on them, they can either gun her down or try to melee her and risk getting stabbed and die. I wouldn't fault them for not wanting to protect themselves over someone who is attacking them.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Her house was just broken into and she called the police. The police already should have know there maybe a frantic woman on the property. The situation was handled inproperly.

She was not frantic when they got there she was mentally ill and from the sound of it went from talking to them to grabing knifes on a dime there's no way they could have for saw that.

[Deleted]

All the best wishes for the family. What a tragedy.