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  1. #1
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    Why Kil'Jaeden is treated like a fool in this expansion?

    Ehm... excuse me blizzard aren't you maybe by chance forgetting who Kil'Jaeden is? This dude is like top 2 in charismatic villains of warcraft. He is by far the more recognizible eredar and basiaclly the right hand of Sargeras. He is involved in a lot of shcemes during warcraft history and he is also basically the creator of the lich king and the Frozen Throne. (and don't get me started on Archimonde and Mannoroth, they was treated like stupids too)
    Then why all we get is a patch where he is the end boss with no build up to his defeat whatsoever.

    The end cinematic is nicely done as always, but the Kil'jaeden character is treated completely different then what he was. You just go there, defeat him, he tells Velen he was envious of hima dn that he didn't think the Burning legion could be stoped, then dies. Are you for real?
    This dude should show no redemption by now, Kil'Jaeden has already shown multiple time that he thinks we all live to serve , and in his case his vision is to serve for Sargeras and the domination of the legion.

    So overall i think his whole character got fked up quite badly considering how important he is to the overall WoW lore.

  2. #2
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    This probably better fits the Lore forum. But anyway, can't really be charismatic when literally ALL your plans failed and you're in a desperate last attempt after countless of failures.... Which also fails.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
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  3. #3
    His vision wasnt to serve at all. He considered himself a better fit as leader of the Legion and always criticized Sargeras.

  4. #4
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    They had a chance to build up to his defeat with the Broken Shore time-gated questline but failed horribly to do so.

  5. #5
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    well that is not rly confirmed, but evne if it was, the ending we got is till compeltely out of character

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    In general all blizzard villains since cataclysm are just screaming failures. KJ wasn't any diffrent.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    This probably better fits the Lore forum. But anyway, can't really be charismatic when literally ALL your plans failed and you're in a desperate last attempt after countless of failures.... Which also fails.
    Sry but that's just not true. He got one over thhe people of azeroth many times, and in many cases he guided them to where he wanted. So as manya s the failures he got also a bunch of victories

  8. #8
    That's the problem with MMO not KJ, we have so much plot armour that poor KJ lost all hope and gave up.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Manabomb's Avatar
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    They do what Blizzard always does, try to make a character of unimaginable blood lust and evil more human by relating to their emotions or hidden desires that come out at the last moment.

    I just don't buy it. Kil'jaeden should have been clawing, gnashing and scratching his way over to ending Velen, Dadgar and Illibad, not wallowing in his languish pretending Velen even gives a fuck about his jealousy.
    There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
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    Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Macilento View Post
    Sry but that's just not true. He got one over thhe people of azeroth many times, and in many cases he guided them to where he wanted. So as manya s the failures he got also a bunch of victories
    Yeah, when your plans fail and you're about to explode, you go "'member that old time when I won?"...

  11. #11
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macilento View Post
    Sry but that's just not true. He got one over thhe people of azeroth many times, and in many cases he guided them to where he wanted. So as manya s the failures he got also a bunch of victories
    He won some battles, but lost ALL the wars.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  12. #12
    He's not a redemption story, he's not a forgiveness story, he's just a story of a person who knew he couldn't win against the threat (Sargeras) and then joined him. He reveled in his victories and embraced his place next to Sargeras. At the end, it just comes out that he envied Velen's gifts and joined Sargeras because he knew his people would die if not. He chose to live and fight against people he used to consider friends and family rather than die, while embracing the power given to him.
    It's not like he came out and said, "No, I embraced this power to be able to stop the threat from within and the power that was given to me by my enemies!" We have that lame crap with Illidan's arc. It's just a reveal that while he did enjoy his power and used it against Velen, that at the same time he envied the powers of Velen and knew he would die if he refused Sargeras.
    He didn't hate Velen, he just wanted the same power before Sargeras offered him the power of the Legion.

  13. #13
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    When a deep Lore character ends up as a raid boss in an expansion it's to be expected that killing him/her off is going to be a letdown.

    Blizzard doesn't really design raids around story-telling any longer. It's all about fiddly mechanics and clever scripting at the expense of story. They probably could have done better with Kil'Jaeden but there have been a lot of major character deaths in Legion and you can't devote a long buildup to any or all of them when there are so many.

    You also have Blizzard providing even the worst of their lore characters with opportunities for redemption or at least apology.

    I get why this happens. The developers have lost complete sight of the story and lore over the years in their devotion to promote gameplay. So you have clever and complex boss scripts, constantly shifting classes, spreadsheets, simulators and no one much qualified to script a story in any detail over the course of an expansion. That's a difficult job anyway but I don't have a lot of faith that anyone in Irvine really understands the long arc of story-telling.

    It's the triumph of technocrats over the emotional and story element of the game; cute and clever over subtlety and depth. KJ is a victim of this because his story is shallow. Lost all of the important stuff as the game dictates he must. So killing him off seems more like mercy than anything else.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by laplacedemon View Post
    Yeah, when your plans fail and you're about to explode, you go "'member that old time when I won?"...
    No that's exactly what he should not be doing, but it is basically what he does in the cinematic "hey velen remember the old time...."

  15. #15
    Banned MechaCThun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macilento View Post
    Ehm... excuse me blizzard aren't you maybe by chance forgetting who Kil'Jaeden is? This dude is like top 2 in charismatic villains of warcraft. He is by far the more recognizible eredar and basiaclly the right hand of Sargeras. He is involved in a lot of shcemes during warcraft history and he is also basically the creator of the lich king and the Frozen Throne. (and don't get me started on Archimonde and Mannoroth, they was treated like stupids too)
    Then why all we get is a patch where he is the end boss with no build up to his defeat whatsoever.

    The end cinematic is nicely done as always, but the Kil'jaeden character is treated completely different then what he was. You just go there, defeat him, he tells Velen he was envious of hima dn that he didn't think the Burning legion could be stoped, then dies. Are you for real?
    This dude should show no redemption by now, Kil'Jaeden has already shown multiple time that he thinks we all live to serve , and in his case his vision is to serve for Sargeras and the domination of the legion.

    So overall i think his whole character got fked up quite badly considering how important he is to the overall WoW lore.
    So did you even do the raid yet?

    You are speaking as if you did not see the interaction with KJ during the whole course of the raid.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Macilento View Post
    No that's exactly what he should not be doing, but it is basically what he does in the cinematic "hey velen remember the old time...."
    You have that completely backwards. He should not being saying "You may have killed me but HAHA remember that time I totally fucking got your son to die in front of you?! I WIN!" No he is dying. When you die you don't gloat your victories, you lament your failures. That's how death works no matter who you are. He's lamenting the fact that he didn't listen to Velen because of his jealousy of him and his fear of Sargeras. This is perfectly normal for anybody, no matter how evil.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    When a deep Lore character ends up as a raid boss in an expansion it's to be expected that killing him/her off is going to be a letdown.

    Blizzard doesn't really design raids around story-telling any longer. It's all about fiddly mechanics and clever scripting at the expense of story. They probably could have done better with Kil'Jaeden but there have been a lot of major character deaths in Legion and you can't devote a long buildup to any or all of them when there are so many.

    You also have Blizzard providing even the worst of their lore characters with opportunities for redemption or at least apology.

    I get why this happens. The developers have lost complete sight of the story and lore over the years in their devotion to promote gameplay. So you have clever and complex boss scripts, constantly shifting classes, spreadsheets, simulators and no one much qualified to script a story in any detail over the course of an expansion. That's a difficult job anyway but I don't have a lot of faith that anyone in Irvine really understands the long arc of story-telling.

    It's the triumph of technocrats over the emotional and story element of the game; cute and clever over subtlety and depth. KJ is a victim of this because his story is shallow. Lost all of the important stuff as the game dictates he must. So killing him off seems more like mercy than anything else.
    That is a topic on it's own, to wich i partially agree for sure. It's really stupid how Blizz is not explaining, developing stories in raid nowdays

  18. #18
    I would compare this to the tepid pile of shit that is the Dark Knight portrayal of Bane. Sometimes bad guys are just fucking BAD GUYS, we dont need excuses, we dont need emotional relation, we dont need a forgiveness angle.. we just need someone fucking EVIL. It seems even Blizz cannot help themselves, I cant wait until we learn that Sarg had a rough childhood and has father issues so we can all emphasize and feel bad for him.....

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    He won some battles, but lost ALL the wars.
    he easily conquered draenor and lordaeron. he had at least 2 victories xD

  20. #20
    Over 9000! Golden Yak's Avatar
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    I look at the full scope of him. I consider everything up to this point to have been build-up.

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